Player Watch Mason Cox

[Tarkyn_24]

Alright isn’t going to cut it on PF or GF day. The new system looks good to me.

This is a good point. The eye test indicated to me only one of our three rucks cut it on PF day last year, and it was Mason

 

[Ironmonger85]

My eyes told me Darcy was stinking up the ruck last friday(as well as dropping easy marks around the ground) but when I checked the stats he was equal in hitouts to the geelong guy and won clearances 9-4.

 

[swoop42]

I'm only 80kg, I wish I knew why it started, it's just come out of the blue and very painful

Yeah but you're only 3 foot tall.

 

[PieBeast]

This is a good point. The eye test indicated to me only one of our three rucks cut it on PF day last year, and it was Mason

Yeah, well done to big Mase for having one of his usual non-stinker 2/3 games for the year on that particular day.

 

[sr36]

I would assume referring to the use of Cameron/Cox + Frampton and McStay taking the leftovers, as opposed to Cox AND Cameron

That's the same system with different players.

We haven't played a new system yet. We might have been going to against Geelong, but Crisp said that Frampton was going to play forward/ruck until Moore got injured, which would have been the same system, but with Frampton instead of Cox.

I suspect at this stage of the year, we're not going to change the system and it's just musical chairs as we try to find the most effective player to play forward/ruck.

Personally I think it's Cox or Krueger depending on what you value more highly - the contest up forward or the contest in the ruck. But you could go with Frampton if you value ruck and also want an extra tall option down back in case things aren't working in defence - particularly if you're playing Howe forward with only Moore and Murphy in defence.

Overall, I don't think there's a standout and it just comes down to what you value

 

[sr36]

This is a good point. The eye test indicated to me only one of our three rucks cut it on PF day last year, and it was Mason

You might want to get those eyes tested. He was very quiet and then got subbed out.

 

[sam_e]

You might want to get those eyes tested. He was very quiet and then got subbed out.

Cox was subbed out due to groin strain in that game.

Cameron’s anaemic efforts early in the ruck contributed to us being uncompetitive in the CS and going behind on the scoreboard. Cox had started to change the momentum in there before going off injured.

Sydney Swans veteran Sam Reid, Collingwood tall Mason Cox subbed out of preliminary final

Injury blows for the Swans and Pies into the second half.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[gouki88]

That's the same system with different players.

We haven't played a new system yet. We might have been going to against Geelong, but Crisp said that Frampton was going to play forward/ruck until Moore got injured, which would have been the same system, but with Frampton instead of Cox.

I suspect at this stage of the year, we're not going to change the system and it's just musical chairs as we try to find the most effective player to play forward/ruck.

Personally I think it's Cox or Krueger depending on what you value more highly - the contest up forward or the contest in the ruck. But you could go with Frampton if you value ruck and also want an extra tall option down back in case things aren't working in defence - particularly if you're playing Howe forward with only Moore and Murphy in defence.

Overall, I don't think there's a standout and it just comes down to what you value

I don't think it is the same system at all. Cameron and Cox of the last couple of outings saw Cox play approx. 50% of game time when he was not subbed out. Totally different to what we've seen with him out

 

[Bianconeri]

I don't think it is the same system at all. Cameron and Cox of the last couple of outings saw Cox play approx. 50% of game time when he was not subbed out. Totally different to what we've seen with him out

Ash Johnson originally replaced Cox and played around 50% tog and it looked like Frampton was going for a similar role until Moore got injured.

 

[sr36]

I don't think it is the same system at all. Cameron and Cox of the last couple of outings saw Cox play approx. 50% of game time when he was not subbed out. Totally different to what we've seen with him out

He's only been out 2 weeks. And we don't know what the plan was with Frampton. But the week before it was 3 tall forwards with one of them chopping out in the ruck - the lesser forward playing limited minutes. It's the same when Mason plays. The only real change against Geelong other than personnel was having three tall forwards on the ground for a higher percentage of the match. Still probably less than half.

With Howe going forward and how good that looked, we may move to 4 tall forwards with one of them chopping out in the ruck - which according to Crisp was what would have happened with Frampton if not for Moore's injury. The system change of that would be having 3 tall forwards on the ground together for the majority of the match, which we haven't done all year, as we have only had two at once for the majority of the time during our games.

 

[Anzacday]

DC has pretty much rucked solo at AFL level and Mason has done the same at VFL level.
Maybe they’re going to rest DC and give Mason a go at AFL level for the next week or two?

 

[gouki88]

DC has pretty much rucked solo at AFL level and Mason has done the same at VFL level.
Maybe they’re going to rest DC and give Mason a go at AFL level for the next week or two?

Cox and McInerney would be an ungainly battle of lanky titans.

 

[Scodog10]

They may have been trying a new system last week with ruck not coming from a forward - although Crisp said the plan was for Billy to play ruck/forward.

Ultimately, you're right though - we've been playing a one ruck system - Cox was playing predominately as a forward with Cameron playing big minutes in the ruck. So we haven't really changed the system. They're trialling some different players in that role - as Coxy was really struggling. Might even turn to Krueger this week. I'm hoping we don't go back to Cox playing as a forward who chops out in the ruck, as he's always been a sub-par forward.

They aren’t right because they were initially referencing a 50/50 split as we had exiting 2022. Cox is a ruckman playing forward when we’ve needed a KPP to chop out. Hence his ruck role at VFL level. The role hasn’t changed because we moved from 50/50 early year, but the system has because we’ve identified the need for that forward role to be more impactful aerially, on the deck and in making the opposition primary interceptor more accountable.

The numbers are in our favour currently as well with our forward line the most efficient league wide over the past 6 weeks. We just need to figure out how to get it in there more often which is where Cox should be stepping in as the number 1 ruck, IMO.

 

[sr36]

They aren’t right because they were initially referencing a 50/50 split as we had exiting 2022. Cox is a ruckman playing forward when we’ve needed a KPP to chop out. Hence his ruck role at VFL level. The role hasn’t changed because we moved from 50/50 early year, but the system has because we’ve identified the need for that forward role to be more impactful aerially, on the deck and in making the opposition primary interceptor more accountable.

The numbers are in our favour currently as well with our forward line the most efficient league wide over the past 6 weeks. We just need to figure out how to get it in there more often which is where Cox should be stepping in as the number 1 ruck, IMO.

I get what you mean. And it's semantics really, but to me when Coxy plays forward, he's a forward - even if doing it poorly. And the majority of his game time has been forward. If you move to playing a better forward and have a forward chopping out in the ruck - to me it's a values change from ruck to forward rather than a system change.

 

[Scodog10]

I get what you mean. And it's semantics really, but to me when Coxy plays forward, he's a forward - even if doing it poorly. And the majority of his game time has been forward. If you move to playing a better forward and have a forward chopping out in the ruck - to me it's a values change from ruck to forward rather than a system change.

I can buy that and look at the end of the day no matter what we label it we’re looking better without a 7ft tall person inside 50. I do think though that a look at Cox>Cameron was the way to go, but I can’t see it from here likewise Frampton in the forward role they were looking for v Geelong.

 

[BigApplePie]

It’s a difficult decision to set his role. I’ve always believed he’s better suited for first ruck. Apart from his Coxzilla games, his contested situations haven’t been extraordinary. I wish there were stats on that so I could confirm. Whether that’s due to misreading the play, half assing the contest, umps not paying FK, idk. It’s likely all of them.

Which is why I’d prefer him in the ruck. I bet he can be a more effective forward if he’s not a beacon i50. Teams have to respect his height, regardless of how he’s playing. If he’s working around the ground, who knows? Could open him up on a lead. I feel like the team will always want to try him up forward for his set shot accuracy, and Cameron’s struggles. Feel to call me a nuffie if my yankee knowledge of the game is spewing nonsense.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I can buy that and look at the end of the day no matter what we label it we’re looking better without a 7ft tall person inside 50. I do think though that a look at Cox>Cameron was the way to go, but I can’t see it from here likewise Frampton in the forward role they were looking for v Geelong.

I’m genuinely surprised that Cameron as a forward chopping out Cox resting hasn’t been persisted with. Cameron’s looked likely as a forward previously (albeit nowhere near it this year).

 

[sr36]

I can buy that and look at the end of the day no matter what we label it we’re looking better without a 7ft tall person inside 50. I do think though that a look at Cox>Cameron was the way to go, but I can’t see it from here likewise Frampton in the forward role they were looking for v Geelong.

I agree, but think it would have to be with Frampton, as he can't play enough minutes where he's getting to enough contests, so the second ruck would need to be a decent ruck. Plus we can't do it with Frampton whilst Moore is out.

 

[noideaatall]

Ahhh, I get it now, the all new one ruck system. Semantics, like systems, are important. It was never a 50:50 split last year, DC always had more ruck time, Cox more forward. I call that the 1.3 system. Now with this two ruck system what happens if Freddie doesn't make it? Does Frampton chop out from the backline? Perhaps that could the new system 2.0.

In analysis I don't really care what system we use as much as who plays where. The new (1.0) one ruck system sounds good in theory but in practice who takes the chop out role?

 

[windchimes]

I’m genuinely surprised that Cameron as a forward chopping out Cox resting hasn’t been persisted with. Cameron’s looked likely as a forward previously (albeit nowhere near it this year).

He's just way too wonky of a kick for goal for that to work unfortunately. However he has a much bigger tank and more mobility than Cox so I think he'll always have the number 1 ruck spot regardless.

 

[domus]

I'd back Cox over Cameron in a 50 m sprint every day. I think Coxy is more athletic but Cameron might have more stamina

 

[Ironmonger85]

I want to see Cox as number 1 ruck with Cameron chopping out from the forward line. Cameron was kicking plenty of goals in 2021 when he was 2nd ruck to Grundy, his low goal scoring last year and this year could be because he's just too exhausted from being number 1 ruck to compete in contested marks inside 50 very well. I think the 2 sitters Cameron dropped against geelong inside 50 were due to exhaustion.

 

[parano1a]

I want to see Cox as number 1 ruck with Cameron chopping out from the forward line.

Agree but the forward line would be too top heavy with both McStay and Cameron.

 

[Scodog10]

I agree, but think it would have to be with Frampton, as he can't play enough minutes where he's getting to enough contests, so the second ruck would need to be a decent ruck. Plus we can't do it with Frampton whilst Moore is out.

This was the guts of a post of mine a few weeks back around a clear win or loss at ruck contests. To borrow a Dwaynism we’re still “half pregnant” with Cameron. In my heart of hearts I’d prefer Frampton as the first ruck because of his mobility, but with the injury to Moore that’s a non starter so the next option up is Cox.

I’m genuinely surprised that Cameron as a forward chopping out Cox resting hasn’t been persisted with. Cameron’s looked likely as a forward previously (albeit nowhere near it this year).

Our forward mix is working extremely well at the moment so I would be dropping Cameron in that scenario.

I really don’t put anywhere near the same premium on ruck wins as most on here seem to. For me it essentially boils down to having a clear win or clear loss and if it’s a clear win they need to be an exceptional tap ruckman or if it’s a clear loss they need to be able to win ground ball contests. They also need to be strong aerially. Unfortunately right now Cameron is option D, none of the above…

Kreuger’s probably the best ruckman on our list based on what I rate, but we’ll never get to see that.

 

[sr36]

This was the guts of a post of mine a few weeks back around a clear win or loss at ruck contests. To borrow a Dwaynism we’re still “half pregnant” with Cameron. In my heart of hearts I’d prefer Frampton as the first ruck because of his mobility, but with the injury to Moore that’s a non starter so the next option up is Cox.

Our forward mix is working extremely well at the moment so I would be dropping Cameron in that scenario.

I really don’t put anywhere near the same premium on ruck wins as most on here seem to. For me it essentially boils down to having a clear win or clear loss and if it’s a clear win they need to be an exceptional tap ruckman or if it’s a clear loss they need to be able to win ground ball contests. They also need to be strong aerially. Unfortunately right now Cameron is option D, none of the above…

Kreuger’s probably the best ruckman on our list based on what I rate, but we’ll never get to see that.

I watched Frampton a fair bit when he was first ruck against Adelaide earlier in the year. He's really good around stoppage. I think he could be our most effective there. But in general play he was lost - in no man's land - with the ball just going over his head. Not far enough forward or back to be involved in aerial contests. I think that's something we value and why Cameron is our first choice.