Streaming Masters of the Air

[Sphynx]

Was my reaction too, currently watching the first episode .What happened to Hollywood casting normal looking people as side and background characters. They all look too much like actors (as actors) and too polished.

They have cast them right.

The 2 x Bucks and Rosenthal are three of the most famous pilots in history and were larger than life characters by all reports. Legends of the US military.

I wouldn’t expect an average looking dude being cast for someone like Keith Miller as a comparison….

 

[Sphynx]

Thanks for the info. In the show we see the airmen putting on oxygen masks. Does that mean the aircraft could be flown at high altitudes regardless of the cabin being pressurised?

The cabin wasn’t pressurized in a B-17

 

[MC Bad Genius]

They have cast them right.

The 2 x Bucks and Rosenthal are three of the most famous pilots in history and were larger than life characters by all reports. Legends of the US military.

I wouldn’t expect an average looking dude being cast for someone like Keith Miller as a comparison….

Austin Butler is a very good looking dude, just by the by. When they were in the Algerian desert, my wife mentioned that he will be in a lot of perfume and watch ads throughout his life. I can't really disagree.

 

[Sphynx]

That's why the scenes away from battle are even more crucial in building a backstory and empathy imho. This series just doesn't do it for me.

BoB nailed every actor and character so it's the gold standard. And the Pacific had Ramik Malek putting in a performance that captured the attention of Hollywood This season has none of that.

So while the battle scenes are great - the scenes away from battle that should be building empathy - like the bike race in the mess halls or the celebrations at the start of episode 4 are just a huge let down for me.

Each to their own I guess.

This series has a lead actor who was nominated for the Best Actor Academy Award only 12 months ago, as someone who some are predicting might be the next Pitt….


The Pacific was universally canned when it was released and then had a post release resurgence.

I feel like this will be viewed as a masterpiece of TV in 5-6 years and someone like Butler being in it will age very well like Malek and Lewis/Fassbender being in the Pacific and BOB also did…

 

[Vader]

The cabin wasn’t pressurized in a B-17

That's the point he's making - they're shown wearing face masks, implying that they're using oxygen, which is needed to fly at high altitude without cabin pressurisation. There's no need for face masks if the cabin is pressurised (which it was in the B-29, but not the B-17).

A Google search indicates that yes - they did use oxygen masks, in the B-17s. Note that air is generally not breathable above 10,000ft without oxygen. Yes, some people have gone to the top of Mt Everest (8000+ m) without oxygen, but they only stayed up there for very short periods of time, and only after arduous training.

As far as the B-17 crews were concerned, oxygen was to be used whenever the aircraft was above 10,000 ft in daylight, and at all altitudes (i.e. whenever the aircraft was airborne) when flying at night.

Here are some YouTube clips, which provide more details (I haven't watched them yet):

 

[Vader]

It seems I was wrong with my previous statement - the ceilings were not related to human factors, so much as engine performance.

Most non-jet engines struggle to get much above 40,000 ft, and many WWII fighters had ceilings around this mark. Above that altitude they simply can't get enough oxygen to provide the thrust. In the case of the bombers, the weight & aerodynamics of the aircraft, combined with engine performance, limit them to altitudes well below 40,000 ft.

Jet engines perform better at high altitude, in comparison to the non-jet engines. Jet aircraft have been known to reach altitudes in excess of 100,000 ft (e.g. the U-2 & SR-71A). Of course, there weren't many jet aircraft operational by the end of WWII - only the Me-262 and the Gloster Metor, plus the rocket powered Me-163 Komet (which was a very strange aircraft).

... but if you want to go into space, you need a rocket motor.

 

[Sphynx]

That's the point he's making - they're shown wearing face masks, implying that they're using oxygen, which is needed to fly at high altitude without cabin pressurisation. There's no need for face masks if the cabin is pressurised (which it was in the B-29, but not the B-17).

A Google search indicates that yes - they did use oxygen masks, in the B-17s. Note that air is generally not breathable above 10,000ft without oxygen. Yes, some people have gone to the top of Mt Everest (8000+ m) without oxygen, but they only stayed up there for very short periods of time, and only after arduous training.

As far as the B-17 crews were concerned, oxygen was to be used whenever the aircraft was above 10,000 ft in daylight, and at all altitudes (i.e. whenever the aircraft was airborne) when flying at night.

Here are some YouTube clips, which provide more details (I haven't watched them yet):

Sorry, what’s your point?

I thought it was obvious that the cabin wasn’t pressurized and they used oxygen everywhere above certain altitudes?

The plane is outfitted with oxygen tanks everywhere for that reason.

There's also zero insulation in the plane, hence the sheep skin heated jump suits and the frostbite in EP 1.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I hope Buck is somehow still alive. But what a terrible thing for these men. They form close bonds with each other, and then one day, good mates just don't come back from a mission. It must have been awful.

 

[Frank Bunn]

That's the point he's making - they're shown wearing face masks, implying that they're using oxygen, which is needed to fly at high altitude without cabin pressurisation. There's no need for face masks if the cabin is pressurised (which it was in the B-29, but not the B-17).

A Google search indicates that yes - they did use oxygen masks, in the B-17s. Note that air is generally not breathable above 10,000ft without oxygen. Yes, some people have gone to the top of Mt Everest (8000+ m) without oxygen, but they only stayed up there for very short periods of time, and only after arduous training.

As far as the B-17 crews were concerned, oxygen was to be used whenever the aircraft was above 10,000 ft in daylight, and at all altitudes (i.e. whenever the aircraft was airborne) when flying at night.

Here are some YouTube clips, which provide more details (I haven't watched them yet):

The second video answered a question I had. Were they breathing pure oxygen through their masks? It stated that oxygen was mixed with air from outside the aircraft. So it was a supplement rather than a direct feed.

I found this data on effective oxygen levels at different altitudes. Everest Base Camp is 17,000 feet and has effective oxygen of 11% (compared to 21% at sea level). People don't generally wear oxygen masks at Everest Base Camp but they probably would have several days of acclimatisation before that. Compared to the bomber airmen who were flying from sea level to 30,000 feet within an hour, where there's only 6.3 effective oxygen levels.

 

[DIG]

I didn’t realise they flew so many missions without any sort of fighter support, terrifying. Wonder if they’ll cover the fighters much later in the season when they arrive.

 

[Spearman]

I hope Buck is somehow still alive. But what a terrible thing for these men. They form close bonds with each other, and then one day, good mates just don't come back from a mission. It must have been awful.

I get where you're coming from, but for an older and very jaded viewer like myself I almost welcome the gut punch. Emotional spikes midway can improve an otherwise vanilla production. I like to be challenged a little.

That said, this series is good. I've watched probably every airwar movie ever made , and it rates with the best so far. I also spent a long time as part of a WW2 flight sim community, where some of the nerdism rubbed off.

 

[Spearman]

I didn’t realise they flew so many missions without any sort of fighter support, terrifying. Wonder if they’ll cover the fighters much later in the season when they arrive.

As has been pointed out, the early phases of the bombing campaign were brutal. I would imagine phase 2 where the fighters could only go so far and bombers had to continue on alone, would have been even harder. Having the little friends all the way was a massive boost both in morale and effectiveness.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I hope Buck is somehow still alive. But what a terrible thing for these men. They form close bonds with each other, and then one day, good mates just don't come back from a mission. It must have been awful.

Succession (kinda) killed its main character off screen - they said it was to show a realistic scenario when someone suddenly dies - the uncertainty and phone calls etc.

Buck and crew not coming back from a mission, and no one knows what happened to them, would be similarly realistic. But I suspect he's alive. They've done the resistance smugglers thing so maybe he ditches into the sea or becomes a POW.

 

[Financialpanther]

That was intense.

 

[Gak Attack]

Bloody hell that episode. Can't imagine how you could keep going back up.

 

[Father Jack]

I just said, they blew up.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

They just pretty much killed off everyone in that episode. At least Bucky is still alive for now. Some of the scenes in this week's episode were spine-chilling. What these poor men went through.

 

[DIG]

Excellent episode. Jesus. The pacing of it was spot on, focussing on that one awful mission.

I’d be that guy saying I’m done not going up there again…..but knowing deep down I couldn’t let my mates down - well I’d like to think so anyway…the bravery of these guys is incredible.

Loved the composure of Bucky’s bombardier focussing on his job (futilely in the end), while everything’s going to shit around him.

 

[Festerz]

Good little article on the 8th raid on Munster that was the feature of last week's episode:

'The men of the Mighty Eighth were in for a bit of a shock when they heard their target for the day. In most of the raids flown by the Eighth to this point, the targets had all been industrial or military targets—ball-bearing factories, fighter-assembly plants, and the like. But October 10 was different. The target for the 10th was people—the city center of Munster.'

'The Eighth Air Force had prided itself on not targeting civilian populations. Its crews didn’t set out on “city busters” like the RAF did at night. Its targets were military targets attacked with precision, not indiscriminate bombing of civilians. The briefing officer of the 95th Bomb Group relayed a change in tactics. “Unlike all previous military and industrial targets attacked to date by the Eighth Air Force, today will be different—very different,” he said. “Today you will hit the center of that city, the homes of the working population.” The aiming point, the briefing officer said, would be the steps of the medieval cathedral. According to the plan, the B-17s would arrive over their target at high noon, the exact time Sunday mass let out at the cathedral. To many of the men in the briefing rooms across East Anglia, the news was shocking.'

Mission to Munster | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

The Royal Flush skidded to a halt with wounded crewmen aboard. Pilot Robert “Rosie” Rosenthal jumped out of his aircraft and headed for a debriefing, asking another officer who didn’t fly that day, “Are they all this rough?”

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[Sphynx]

The next 4-5 episodes have the potential to get it to BOB territory imo.

Best episode of the series so far

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

After all the seat-of-your-pants flying episodes, I think this week was a welcome break in the pace. I'm so glad Buck is still alive. That was pretty wild shit what Buckie went through once he was caught. The Geneva Conventions on the treatment of POWs were certainly broken there. It's funny how you saw those German civilians react so angrily about what had been done to them, but it wouldn't even have passed their minds that their own Govt was doing the same thing to civilians in Britain and other countries, too.

 

[Gasometer]

I am 3 episodes behind

To I just wait for the rest and binge or catch up?

First world problems and that

 

[Financialpanther]

That moment at the end of that episode though

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Good little article on the 8th raid on Munster that was the feature of last week's episode:

'The men of the Mighty Eighth were in for a bit of a shock when they heard their target for the day. In most of the raids flown by the Eighth to this point, the targets had all been industrial or military targets—ball-bearing factories, fighter-assembly plants, and the like. But October 10 was different. The target for the 10th was people—the city center of Munster.'

'The Eighth Air Force had prided itself on not targeting civilian populations. Its crews didn’t set out on “city busters” like the RAF did at night. Its targets were military targets attacked with precision, not indiscriminate bombing of civilians. The briefing officer of the 95th Bomb Group relayed a change in tactics. “Unlike all previous military and industrial targets attacked to date by the Eighth Air Force, today will be different—very different,” he said. “Today you will hit the center of that city, the homes of the working population.” The aiming point, the briefing officer said, would be the steps of the medieval cathedral. According to the plan, the B-17s would arrive over their target at high noon, the exact time Sunday mass let out at the cathedral. To many of the men in the briefing rooms across East Anglia, the news was shocking.'

Mission to Munster | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

The Royal Flush skidded to a halt with wounded crewmen aboard. Pilot Robert “Rosie” Rosenthal jumped out of his aircraft and headed for a debriefing, asking another officer who didn’t fly that day, “Are they all this rough?”

www.nationalww2museum.org

I have only just watched this episode and it was the most brutal of all of them so far. The rocket hits on the wings, the flak killing or maiming so many in the planes, one of the shot down planes taking out another one. Only one plane actually made it back!!!

The new pilot of that plane was badass though. Without the backup and formation that could've helped them get home, he had to get super creative and became unpredictable to the German fighters. I hope he gets rightly rewarded for his efforts!

The use of slo-mo was really jarring though, even if it was quite cool. It just reinforced that the reason this season hasn't been near to the level of Band Of Brothers or The Pacific is that the air battles are too impersonal to get really engaged in what is going on. But in hoping that changes with the previews for the next episode focusing more on all the men who landed beyond enemy lines.

 

[Spearman]

The stories that came from the survivors of bombing campaign are horrific. It's good that Hanks/Spielberg didn't sugar coat it and tried to portray some of the worst.
The ending of the episode was always going to happen IMHO. Just on the realistic view of the numbers of crews lost, and its a chance to show the POW experience.

On a side note, for those of you who are interested, you can download some of the WW2 flight sims for free and fly them offline. Some have the capability to script your own scenario, so if you want a small sip of the being inside a fort or gustav give a try.