Toast McRae era (2022-) = see OP
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1. First-year success
At a pinch, you could argue Craig McRae is the coach of the year to date. Justin Longmuir, in his third season as coach, has taken the Dockers from outside of the eight to the top four and has claims, and maybe Brett Ratten at St Kilda. McRae, in his first season, has a team full of olds and youngs and not much in between, and taken a team tipped for bottom four and has them in the top eight at the halfway mark of the season. The Pies play with flair and substance, which was evident on Sunday in the dry first half and wet second half, and by the end they needed every ounce of conviction to wrestle the game from Hawthorn. The Pies have beaten St Kilda, Fremantle and Carlton and lost to Brisbane and Geelong by two goals, and unforgivably to West Coast in Round 4. There’s one simple stat which details Collingwood’s improvement: Last year they were No.18 for inside-50s. This year they are seventh. Last year they were boring. This year they are adventurous. That’s a tick for McRae.Craig McRae is enjoying his first year as an AFL coach. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
thebigsaveloy
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As a kid who grew up in the 90's I'm just happy Fly was able to get a win in the month of June.
Too many winless Junes under Tony Shaw has made me a little apprehensive this time of year.
Too many winless Junes under Tony Shaw has made me a little apprehensive this time of year.
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Steve Kerr, Teri McKeever and the demise of the win-at-all-costs coach
The conflicting tales of these American coaches show the way forward for those who want to shape the future of aspiring and established athletes.www.theage.com.au
Important and relevant. The hard taskmaster, the bottom line leader is a dinosaur; as much as us middle-aged hard-nosed might disagree, they're a dying breed.
McRae has played under Leigh Matthews in a brutal team, but is a man for the times.
Hasn't set a foot wrong for a first year coach IMO and this is most evident to me in the way he communicates after a loss.
i can sort of see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure whether leigh was as brutal as someone who bullied players into winning. I think a lot of his reputation is the result of his playing days..... which is the advantage of mcrae who was largely unknown during his playing days and could come into coaching as a blank canvas. I tend to think macrae's strong point is the 3 or 4 key people around him.
jathanas
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BT in his book on the 1990 season had suggested that Lethal was a very intimidating coach. The hard-nose approach alone would not have made him a good coach and Lethal was excellent; clearly he has other strings to his bow.
I agree, Fly's team of assistant coaches is a strength and is in stark contrast to Buckley's circle of assistants (Longmuir the exception).
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- Nov 13, 2008
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I think buckley suffered from the intimidation factor too, although a different type - the "perfection" intimidation. When he decided to embrace the hugging and the rest of it, I think the players only half believed him.
I think it's the reason that the old back-pockets were the successful coaches. Not only did they get to watch the game in front of them, but they left the game without much baggage - although it's hard to argue that with kevin sheedy who was an old back pocket.
It's interesting to watch Voss. They show him in the coaches box at times and he doesnt look cuddly.... but he has constructed a new personna for the media.
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Interesting development with mcrae. Taking on the ginnivan thing meant that he got a headline which was what he actually wanted - which was unusual. But he diffused it on 360 the next night and everything went peaceful and boring again.....nice work. He backed his player but didnt stir things up too much.
And I was interested when he was asked directly about finals on 360 and he managed to deflect to longmuir by using the joke flagmantle.....and the question was forgotten....that was very nice work craig.
And I was interested when he was asked directly about finals on 360 and he managed to deflect to longmuir by using the joke flagmantle.....and the question was forgotten....that was very nice work craig.
60 Yards Out
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I thought the 360 interview was excellent. Backed up Ginnivan and de Goey over the respective issues, was direct about the missing free kicks / umpiring mistakes (eg. Moore)… didn’t kick for touch like coaches usually do in the media. Forthright but without putting a foot wrong. I can see why the players would back him in. Fantastic.
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Haven't seen this posted anywhere, McRae's VFL Coaching Record for Richmond (took over a team that in 2015 finished 13th with 5 wins 13 loses) :
2016:
9th on Ladder - 9 Wins 9 Loses
2017:
5th on Ladder - 11 Wins 7 Loses
Finals - 3 Wins 1 Loss (Lost in Grand Final by 4 points)
2018:
1st on Ladder - 14 Wins 4 Loses
Finals - 0 Wins 2 Loses (Out in straight sets)
2019:
1st on Ladder - 16 Wins 2 Loses
Finals - 3 Wins 0 Loses (Won the VFL Premiership)
2016:
9th on Ladder - 9 Wins 9 Loses
2017:
5th on Ladder - 11 Wins 7 Loses
Finals - 3 Wins 1 Loss (Lost in Grand Final by 4 points)
2018:
1st on Ladder - 14 Wins 4 Loses
Finals - 0 Wins 2 Loses (Out in straight sets)
2019:
1st on Ladder - 16 Wins 2 Loses
Finals - 3 Wins 0 Loses (Won the VFL Premiership)
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He’s really good at getting young players motivated and developing them into successful role players. I don’t know how he does it, but it works. Not surprised that this is already what we’re seeing with the Collingwood players in his first year.
Our retention of good VFL-listed players was also excellent while he was there, meaning that players probably liked playing for him. Many of them have moved on to other clubs since McRae stopped being our VFL coach.
Was hoping we could hide him for longer at Richmond but we couldn’t hide him from Collingwood. Your team has a very good senior coach in my opinion.
TradeDraft
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McRae doing his best not to be a placeholder stooge.
He’s getting the best of of this current group and earning credits for when this list has to rebuild.
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OP updated after Round 13.
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Our turnaround since those consecutive losses against Richmond and WB has really impressed me. We've pipped 3 of the top 4 teams in the competition, and shown some really good resilience. Loving it
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when is the next game, just wanna lap up more of this new style
Gone Critical
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Interesting to hear Bucks on SEN this morning. He loves what has happened for Pies this year and sees the style as very similar to what we were in 18-19, something Ihave been thinking myself. When asked why he said cause its essentially the same side. 18-19 we had an attacking bent and why he said there were some differences it was the same basic philosophy Fly is employing this year. He was balanced as usual and I have to say I agree. We are having a bigger bounce than some like sr36 predicted and certainly miles from where posters like me who didnt see a bounce at all predicted. Still we are pretty similar to 18-19 and they were very enjoyable years
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To me the only comparison from 2018 is that we are winning games.
I don't want to turn it into a bucks bashing session but it really isn't up to him to control the narrative.
The facts are Nathan took over a team that dominated in 2010-11 and took us backwards every season. It took him until a review, and 7 seasons experience to improve from the season before.
Also in 2018 we had an incredible amount of players traded in from other clubs, Fly has already proven to improve our players and is regularly playing 3-4 teenagers each week who are contributing, something Nathan never did in his 10 seasons.
And just one to finish, we talk about managing expectations, thank god Fly is Nick Daicos' coach, the way he's handled the internal vs external expectation on of Nick is a masterstroke. Compare that to what Nathan said in 2021 and managing expectation, proclaiming Nick would be playing seniors in 2021 if he was on the list. What a way to manage external expectation!
Heater3923
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Totally agree. It’s nothing like any time in the Buckley era. Buckleys ego is out of control if he is trying to say this team is playing to his 2018/19 gameplan. It’s really nothing like it. We have versatility we never had under Buckley. One week we’ll smash ya with contested ball, the next we open it up and beat you with uncontested ball and rebounding from the back half. Then the following week we’ll change style again to suit our opposition.
We aren’t conceding red time goals constantly, our stoppage set up continues to tighten up as the year goes on and is highly accountable, we win the games decided by 6 points or less and we aren’t conceding coast to coast goals all the time. We also don’t make idiotic decisions like we did in close games under Buckley any more.
Nor are we kicking high scores in the first qtr, playing possession footy and hanging on for dear life to win games. Buckleys teams were always finesse footy teams first and foremost. In a word, soft and avoided the dirty work. McCrae’s team is hard nosed. It’s chalk and cheese.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that was appalled by Buckley saying Nick would be in our best 22 when not even on the list. It was an absurd thing to say. Not just for putting unfair expectations on him - but the 2021 playing group must have thought “Jesus our coach thinks an 18 year old is better than us”. It was woeful on so many levels.
The other thing Fly is great at is managing and limiting injuries. Our soft tissue injuries are non existent compared to the Buckley years. And that’s because Fly trains the list better. He doesn’t over train them. Buckley overtrained the group through out his tenure.
People literally wanted to rip up the training surface at Holden centre, said it was too hard and caused all our injuries.
The correct answer is in 2022 we have an elite coach that understands what he’s doing - not an idiot that just thinks (as Grundy said in the 2018 doco) doing more is the answer.
It’s kinda hilarious, Buckleys own career was cut short by overtraining. He learnt nothing from destroying his hammies as a player. Then as a coach from 2012 he just ramped up the training loads and all of a sudden players are ripping hammies and calves all over the place. He shortened players careers ffs.
Even Howe was in the papers last week saying things are very different under Fly and the players love it. It’s understandable but sad no one at the club will say the truth, due to Nathan’s “legacy” and clout as a former captain. But reading between the lines, it’s obvious they are all happy to see the back of him and be coached by someone that knows what they are doing.
It’s funny as much as I respect Buckley as a player I always knew we wouldn’t win a flag under him. Yes we got very close but I also believe we went backwards a lot under him and you could tell a lot of players didn’t get on with him. Initially after 2011 I thought Malthouse should still have been coach and was hard done by at the end. I preferred his style of coaching then bucks and seemed players responded more to MM then Buckley. After 2019 I lost interest with following the footy much because I couldn’t stand the game style they were playing and watching players go backwards was painful.
I’m just glad Buckley and Ed are gone tbh. They both did amazing things for the club and I’ll always respect them for that but their big mouths and egos I really didn’t like. McRae really is a breath of fresh air for the club.
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I’m just glad Buckley and Ed are gone tbh. They both did amazing things for the club and I’ll always respect them for that but their big mouths and egos I really didn’t like. McRae really is a breath of fresh air for the club.
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I always thought we were overrated in 2018. We had one scalp (Richmond in the PL). But other than that we only really won against bottom 10 teams. We got kissed on the dick draw wise and somehow made top 4 by only beating one top 8 team in Melbourne and other than first quarter in the grand final we’re comfortably beaten in all three match. Ups against West Coast.
The only similarities I can see in this side with Buckley’s 18 side are that the core players are mostly the same and both game plans were slightly the gameplan was slightly offensive.
We possessed the ball allot more in our back half and most of drive came from our midfield’s ability to transition and our half forwards getting out the back in 18. Under McRae we get allot more drive from half back.
I remember being frustrated with the constant selection of Mayne on the wing who held the ball up then kicked backwards or sideways every time he had possession in space on the wing. How could you select someone who does the exact opposite of what’s making the team tick was mind boggling. So far despite being critical of some of McRae’s selection he hasn’t self sabotaged his ball movement like that.
The only similarities I can see in this side with Buckley’s 18 side are that the core players are mostly the same and both game plans were slightly the gameplan was slightly offensive.
We possessed the ball allot more in our back half and most of drive came from our midfield’s ability to transition and our half forwards getting out the back in 18. Under McRae we get allot more drive from half back.
I remember being frustrated with the constant selection of Mayne on the wing who held the ball up then kicked backwards or sideways every time he had possession in space on the wing. How could you select someone who does the exact opposite of what’s making the team tick was mind boggling. So far despite being critical of some of McRae’s selection he hasn’t self sabotaged his ball movement like that.
Nope. We were terrible to watch for most of 2019. The finals series was the typical Buckley fare- low scoring defensive grinds. Bucks has to be more honest. We had huge personnel issues in the only year we played with run and dare-2018. That Giants prelim was horrendous and the final before against the Cats saw us rush out of the blocks then kick two goals in the last three quarters, hanging onto win against a fast finishing Cats. Yuk.
Gone Critical
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Cant agree. 2019 was our best year to watch since 2011 for mine. We were attacking, scored well and won games. If you look at H&A average points for in 2019 we scored 85.68 points. We are going at 85.84 points per game average in 2022 so the 2 seasons are essentially even for scoring. 2019 we were just better defensively 72 points compared to 81 points in 2022.
I am loving what we are doing in 22 with Fly but dont like the historical rewrites of 2018-19. They were great seasons. Also if you didnt enjoy the 2019 Qualifying Final against Geelong, Pendles 300th, where the 4th team defeated the top H&A team in front of 93000 you are hard to please. For correction we kicked 5 goals in the last 3 Qs and the fast finishing Cats kicked 3 goals to our 2 in the 2nd half. As for hanging on we led all night and they got to within 10 points in the last minutes of the game but never really threatened. Low scoring matches maybe dont work you but for me that was a great Collingwood game.
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I recall being almost at peace with our GWS loss in the prelim as our form was so scratchy I preferred that to another humiliation on the big stage in a GF against Richmond. I didn't feel like that at any stage in 2018.
Five goals in three quarters is grinding dour footy in any language when you kicked four in around 15 minutes in the first term. You are being disingenuous if you infer our defensive, low scoring mindset wasn't a feature of 2019.
I recall Matt Rendell expressing his bewilderment in the preseason following our gf loss in 2018. He said he was shocked that Buckley had adopted a defensive mindset after going so close to a flag with a more attacking, free flowing brand.
I know how my son and I felt throughout much of Bucks tenure and how we were crying out for some entertaining, pulsating footy to give us something to cheer about.
That early win over the tigers in Round One or two in 2019 led to the possession style game being locked in as it paid off that night but led to a dreary season despite winning a good portion of our games. When you are unhappy after reaching a prelim you know something is amiss.
There are always individual games you remember with pride and joy during any coaching tenure. For all of the hate directed at Tony Shaw we played some electric, high scoring footy in his first two years.
We had some occasional highs under Bucks but the overwhelming feeling when I reflect on his time is frustration and dour, slow, low scoring, possession based footy- hence the amazing freshness and appeal of our game under Fly's guidance.
I will add that low scoring games can be riveting. The recent Queens Birthday clash was a perfect example. We had kicked five goals half way through the third term and the footy was compelling. The ball was moving around the ground at great velocity and we were taking chances through the middle but kept breaking down up front.
We never played that exhilarating style when kicking low scores under Bucks. It was mark. Stop. Look back. Look sideways Chip 15 m. Rinse and repeat until you reach the wing or half forward line.
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Gone Critical
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How do you reconcile the above sentence with the fact we are scoring as freely in 2022 as we did in 2019? 2019 QF was a low scoring tough game and a cracker. I really dont see how a Collingwood supporter couldnt have loved it. To describe it as Yuk I dont understand
sr36
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We could turn it on and rack up goals pretty quickly in 2019, but heaps of our wins that year were drab stalemates for 3 quarters until we turned it on in the last.
During that off season we worked really hard to reduce defensive half turnovers and did so through a ridiculous amount of conservative chipping.
