Parasite
Norm Smith Medallist
I hope you're taking the piss.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Medhurst: Analysis
- Thread starter freocynic
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I hope you're taking the piss.
Scribble Monkey
Rookie
BEEGs opinion counts for nothing becasue he's a troll. Unlike many of the opinions here, based on watching Medhurst play every week for 5 years.
He does exactly the same stuff - he runs around his man, plays on whenever he can, stab passes from the boundary to the middle of the fifty, snaps goals in the pocket, can't kick for shit over 50. He went through patches where it came off regularly, and when nothing went right. There was often a direct correlation with whether our midfield was doing a decent job or not.
Come back here when Collingwood are struggling and tell me Medhurst is the matchwinner and teamster you pump him up to be.
Duh, he looks better cos he's playing in a better team.
We know Freo are crap and it's not real clever of you to assume that makes us dumb as well.
He does exactly the same stuff - he runs around his man, plays on whenever he can, stab passes from the boundary to the middle of the fifty, snaps goals in the pocket, can't kick for shit over 50. He went through patches where it came off regularly, and when nothing went right. There was often a direct correlation with whether our midfield was doing a decent job or not.
Come back here when Collingwood are struggling and tell me Medhurst is the matchwinner and teamster you pump him up to be.
Duh, he looks better cos he's playing in a better team.
We know Freo are crap and it's not real clever of you to assume that makes us dumb as well.
BEEG
Hall of Famer
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Not a Troll mate but your supporters dont make any sence he played well in teams at freo that were struggling and didnt play well when you mob made the 4 so your saying his a front runner but he showed he could kick goals when your mob was getting pumped each week
i actually lived in perth in 03/04 and was a big medhurst supporter. I went to quite a few freo games, as there isn't a big choice of games to go to. To say Medhurst is a better player in 03/04 than now is a matter of opinion, but you can't really disagree that medhurst is a far more complete player now. He is constantly roaming around or outside the 50, he is applying pressure like never before and his first option SEEMS to be to find a team mate in a better position, all of which wasn't evident in his years at freo. To say otherwise sounds like supporters trying to justify the move made by the club. I also remember medhurst being somewhat of a whipping boy by the freo supporters, who after Trent Croad left, needed a new scapegoat. If he didn't kick a bag each week, then it was perceived he wasn't performing as his instincts didn't lean to pressure and tackling at the time. And if anyone wants to say i haven't seen any freo games, i lived in perth for 18 years and watched freo nearly every week.
Scribble Monkey
Rookie
No that's right. All of it.
We also passed up on Black, Voss, Ackermanis, Leppitsch, Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Brown J, Franklin, Mooney, Ablett, Ling, Scarlett, Crawford, Riewoldt, Rocca x2, Thomas. And we let slip Sam Newman as our first head coach.
don't you all see, because we're still crap we missed the chance to pick up the team of the century
BEEG
Hall of Famer
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So his more of a complete Player like i said and is a vital part of our team so he has improved immensely end of thread
blockerhall
Team Captain
Scribble Monkey
Rookie
One person's opinon that looks like it may fit into your thin argument based on just wanting to be right, because you have a small dick that you feel needs enhancing, does make you any more right, or any loss of a nobhead.
Piss off.
Piss off.
That's what it boils down to with me. Medders is just as talented now as he ever was. There was good times, there was bad times, it's all part of the Medders experience. That's why most Freo supporters still have a soft spot for him.
The consistency argument doesn't wash with me either. What happened in your losses to the Hawks and the Blues? How about his 1 goal 4 behinds in his one trip away from home this year, in a loss to Brisbane?
(Just on that, compare his home games to his away games, then try telling me playing at home every week isn't a factor)
The only argument I'd possibly concede is that Collingwood is using him more effectively than Fremantle. Fine, Mick Malthouse is a better coach than Chris Connelly. Shocking.
Moo
Premium Platinum
I didn't want to let Medhurst go personally ...I saw him as being a natural replacement for Farmer and he has done an excellent job for Collingwood. I have no ill feelings against Monkeyboy and I like the boy.
There is no doubt in my mind that 2 seasons ago Farmer was the superior small, however my concern at the time was Farmer was 29. Credit where credit is due - Medders is playing career best and enjoying being a primary target.
The problem C'wood have is come finals time - it is hard to win without a key forward and I think whilst their work ethic will get them over the line a lot during the season ...come September if Rocca is not firing or fit - it will be very hard to win with that forward line structure.
I still believe C'wood have already played the ultimate price for the Tarrant trade and whilst the Pies fans scream me down everytime .....if Taz had played last year - Rocca could have gone into the ruck and stopped the bleeding against Geelong. However Mick knowing that you have to have a big come finals time - kept Rocca forward and without Fraser ...they well sucked and got smashed.
Medhurst played poorly in that final (a habit he had for us in big games - though granted he has been much better this year) and Harley effectively played loose man.
Last season put Tarrant in that 50 instead of Medhurst - release Rocca onto the ball (even for a quarter) and the Pies who pushed Geelong so close would ahve potentially made the GF and the way Port played have secured a flag.
If Freo have made the mistake of misjudging how close our list was to a flag and going for experience - I think Mick made the fatal error of not knowing how close his list was and going for youth.
Now Medders is going great and good luck to him in this finals series - however I would have been dirty that the price invariably was a flag or a crack at a flag.
Note - all the C'Wood fans will point out - Taz failed under pressure too. True but -
(i) He would have kept Harley honest when Rocca was forward (Taz's opponents can not zone off)
(ii) Rocca could have gone onto the ball and stopped the massacre in the ruck (this is where Pies fans say he ahd a sore ankle - yeah like that is going to stop you in a prelim)
Mock us Pies fans but if Medders does not come with a flag in a few years time -what could have been.
- Banned
- #37
Rocca can no longer play on the ball, the Achilles injury a few years ago reduced his leap and he would not have been able to ruck in the middle.
Also he lacks a tank and can't ruck around the ground.
If Tarrant was in the team or not it wouldn't have mattered, Rocca would not have gone into the ruck.
Also he lacks a tank and can't ruck around the ground.
If Tarrant was in the team or not it wouldn't have mattered, Rocca would not have gone into the ruck.
Fair comment, there is little doubt We are our worst enemies at times.
There was seldom a week go by when George for example didn't have a crack at him.
Medders appears to be enjoying his footy again.
So is George, by all accounts !!!
- Banned
- #40
I didn't see every game of his for Freo, but he's clearly improved his defensive pressure and fitness (even from 2007 to 2008, not to mention from 2003/4-2008).
He averages 2.8 tackles/game this year after never averaging more than 1.3 at Freo. Not only that, he's now our most damaging tackler as well (i.e. all of his tackles stick).
I disagree. That is an overly simplistic way of looking at a game. Tarrant may very well have helped but he also may not have.
There are also other factors you could throw in like Fraser pulling a heart muscle. As mentioned above, Rocca also doesn't really ruck anymore.
Ultimately, there is no way of knowing what would have been had the situation been different. For all you know, Cloke could have had less of an impact with Tarrant in the side, he may have had more.
And let's face it, Medhurst still booted 3 and assisted another. He may have not had many disposals but he had a big impact. Tarrant has never booted more then 3 in a final
Shoulda, coulda, wouldas are irrelevant and pointless.
cardiefriek
Rookie
I was a huge medders fan and i agree with most of the colliwobble people i dont think medders is a better player i think cc stuffed him up he started like a house on fire and cc tried to change him told him to bulk up like 90 odd kg and his game went to shit. thus losing confidence he looks better now because he is playing instintivly like all good small forwards should
I think this is the key.
He is playing better as age and experience dictates you should but his actual ability has not particularly improved.
I'd suggest his ability to play a variety or roles has improved, his defensive pressure has improved and he has regained passion for the game.
Ultimately, I think his improvement stems from good coaching and an improved mental state and mental ability.
- Banned
- #45
I didn't want Medhurst to go, but I knew he had to. But no one should be blaming Connolly.
Read some of the old, old, old posts on WHTP. Some section of our fanbase hated Medhurst. In fact, they used to call him "CC's love child". They also used to get upset whenever McManus was dropped, saying "why isn't Medhurst dropped?"
I used to post there until I realised that a number of posters on their were clowns. Thank god for this forum.
Read some of the old, old, old posts on WHTP. Some section of our fanbase hated Medhurst. In fact, they used to call him "CC's love child". They also used to get upset whenever McManus was dropped, saying "why isn't Medhurst dropped?"
I used to post there until I realised that a number of posters on their were clowns. Thank god for this forum.
Moo
Premium Platinum
It is funny how couldof, shouldof, wouldof is irrelevant unless posters are discussing Freo and then it is very relevant - every trade is analysed and we are always on the losing side of the ledger and told what if, what if.
I watched the game (not sure if you did) Medhurst was a liability in this game no one would argue otherwise...one of his goals was a shot taken when another Pie got injured. Harley (Medders opponent) dominated and constantly spolied as 3rd man and swept the ball clear. Medders got 5 possies, no tackles and yeah he got 2 goals on his own - Harley would have stopped at least 4 playing off him.
Collingwood were destroyed in the ruck (bit hard on Fraser too who was genuinely injured). I mean dismantled in an embarrasing display I can not remember a worst effort.
Richards and Bryan were inept and Ottens got 23 possessions, 24 hitouts, 9 marks and 6 inside 50's - he basically ran around without an opponent. Combined Bryan/Richards got 8 possessions 22 hitouts, 3 marks and 3 inside 50's .....these stats are very flattering. Undoubtedly it cost them the game and is the main reason why Collingwood were going to take a ruckmen the next season (and why we are unlikely to get such value for Warnock as Mick knew this cost them that game)
Rusling was hurt from memory but Travis Cloke or Rocca in the middle - I even commented during the game that they would be better to put Leon Davis into the ruck as at least he may run with Ottens and make him look.
It is hypothetical yes but so is half of the posts on BF. In my opinion it was clear that Geelong were way, way too good to be given first use of the ball and to have Ottens running as a spare mid with no fear of being hurt the other way. Tarrant in that team and Rocca or Cloke onto the ball - hell put Tarrant on the ball for all that Richards/Bryan did. As ineffectual as taz has been for us I have never seen him stop working and I have never seen a team zone off Tarrant - he is the type of player that you man up on and beat him one on one.
It was not the ruck hitouts that killed the Pies it was the fact that Ottens was taking the ball out of the air and literally hand passing it to the running Cats (Ottens had more possessions than all but 2 C'wood players in a close fought game) or going for a run himself.
Collingwood were great down back - their mids matched Geelong ..Harley was allowed to zone off. It is not that Medders kicked or missed - it was in the context that he allowed Harley (esp in the first half) to effectively pressure Rocca and Cloke as a spare defender. Collingwood were the better team and put a Seaby, Warnock, Gardiner ..in that line up that day - they win.
Cloke was on fire too up forward and would have kicked 6 left one out, Rocca had no luck as he seemed to be doubled everytime and was flagged as the threat I think. No doubt the Medders of this season would have probably killed them.
It is just a balance to this hypothetical - IMHO Taz into that team for Medhurst means Mick can plan to use a mid range ruck (ala Gilmore/Bradley) - Ottens does not get the freedom/Harley may need to find an opponet and suddenly the game is a lot, lot closer.
Whilst I have never participated in Freo trade bashing, I can see your point.
Having said that, I think there is a fair difference in the sense that if you threw Jonathan Brown into the forward line instead of a Chris Tarrant who was struggling and has a poor finals record, there would be more of a cause for consideration.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I watch every Collingwood game (on FTA) as my missus is a big fan and I personally couldn't see what great value could have brought to the table in that game.
Moo
Premium Platinum
Fair enough mate.
Fair bump and we play on.
We can agree that Medders is playing career best footy and I for one do not begrudge him any of the platitudes flowing his way.
- Jul 15, 2007
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I just need to clarify something here. Most of the collingwood fans around here aren't saying that at all, most Freo are in fact saying that. Collingwood fans seem to think that he is innately better player at Collingwood than he was at Freo. Most Freo people who actually know something about Football know that he was generally as good here in his better days as his better days (currently) at the Magpies. I'll conceded one thing, his defensive pressure is up a notch from even his best efforts here - but overall, as said a number of times, he's much of a muchness looking better because.
1. Better team.
2. Used by the coaches in a way that lets his natural game shine.
I'll add 3. because at the Maggies when things don't go well for the team (and they haven't been often since Medders arived), there are a number of other players in the public eye that are the firing line before Medders.
goalpie
Premiership Player
More off a team player at Collingwood. Its also interesting how Farmer was a freak at Melbourne but has now gone backwards.
