Media alert

[Mavlions1961]

Together with Swann's comments about going to the draft, I can't help but feel this is the company line to prepare us for the fact that we have failed in trying to trade in any talent.
http://www.3aw.com.au/news/tom-rock...he-draft-not-free-agents-20150812-gixvmb.html

Agree in part, certainly is the company line, not sure though that we have failed to trade in any talent, way to early to predict any of this, situations change very quickly during the trade period.

We will certainly go to the draft and take our picks, 3 for certain, trades will be very interesting this year.

 

[baaaall!]

Just saying what we already assumed, that none of our picks will be traded. (Leppa said this in the pre-season.)
We can still trade players like Aish and Martin who are rumored to want out for players like Tippett and Dixon.

 

[lions27]

Tippett has to be highly gettable and not at a steep price either. I reckon the Swans would be super keen to move him on to free up some cap space.
Makes sense for him to come to us with the swans chipping in for his salary next year.

 

[Skoob]

Just saying what we already assumed, that none of our picks will be traded. (Leppa said this in the pre-season.)
We can still trade players like Aish and Martin who are rumored to want out for players like Tippett and Dixon.

I guess it can be read that way, although I like to think we lose no "required" players or real talent. They could of course be laying the ground rules for any proposed trades, taking our existing picks off the table early. Just get the feeling we are being softened for the blow of not getting any top (experienced) talent in.
Mavlions1961 is right, too early to tell.

 

[Skoob]

Well outside of getting some freebies like Robbo, the club said they were only looking at top end talent. Elite KPF don't grow on trees, so the choice is limited. Makes sense that if Dixon won't come, we don't just take another Lisle. Go to the draft and keep building the youth. I think some experience is good, but the club needs to keep the draft picks coming in. If we didn't keep losing half of them we would have been sweet by now. Hopefully the academy solves a bit of this over the next few years, and our draft picks stick.

Yeah, I don't mind the line of thinking, just pre-emptively disappointed if it means what I think. Agree, we don't want to bring in players for the sake of experience alone. If there's nothing out there for us, then we have to just soldier on with what we've got and hope to find some more gems in the draft.
It does seem that we've been trying that for a very long time though.

 

[jjami15]

Reading Rockies statement I have to agree with the notion of doing it properly and bringing 'players through together' so in saying that if the club was to get picks for any players leaving that were first round to early second round I would see the club keeping these and going to the draft. I made note a couple of days ago that even though the club hasn't publicly stated we're rebuilding if you look between the lines like this article and comments from Swan he made not too long ago that this is the way the club is heading.

 

[lionshine]

Reading Rockies statement I have to agree with the notion of doing it properly and bringing 'players through together' so in saying that if the club was to get picks for any players leaving that were first round to early second round I would see the club keeping these and going to the draft. I made note a couple of days ago that even though the club hasn't publicly stated we're rebuilding if you look between the lines like this article and comments from Swan he made not too long ago that this is the way the club is heading.

It is a bit of an unfortunate position for the club to be in because on the one hand we have a very talented midfield entering it's prime, however, our backline is full of teenagers albeit talented ones and we have a young forward line and still lack an elite kpf prospect plus we have basically zero depth meaning we need to rebuild. If we get in Schache and Hipwood this year I think our KPP stocks are sorted but we will just have to wait for them to develop. The unfortunate thing is by the time they develop properly and are ready our midfield will have 1 or 2 years of good footy left in them if we are lucky.

That is why from next year onwards it is important to get some elite midfield talent in from the draft so we can have a prolonged period at the top. Luckily for us next year is said to have some very talented midfield prospects coming through. Things could finally be starting to align for our rebuild if we can get Schache, Hipwood and Keays this year and a gun midfielder next year with another top 5 draft pick. Keays, Mayes, Taylor and a top 5 draft pick midfielder next year plus other talents we pick up over the next 3-4 years should be able to form a solid enough midfield to take over from the likes of Rocky, DBeams, Hanley, Zorko, Rich, Bundy ect. and our KPP stocks should be sorted with Clarke, Andrews, Gardiner and Paparone in the backline and Schache and one of Freeman/Close up forward. McStay will be a quality swingman and Hipwood could end up at either end ideally up forward.

Let's say it will take 5 years for Schache, Hipwood ect. to develop. In 5 years time they will have 5 years under their belt whilst the others(Gardiner, McStay, Andrews ect.) will have 6-8 years. By this stage Rocklif, DBeams, Rich, Hanley, Zorko, Bundy ect. will be aged 29-31 and have maybe 2 or 3 years max left in them playing high quality football for us to be able to compete for a premiership. What the club needs to do is have a quality set of midfielders coming in behind them to take over resulting in a prolonged period at the top of the table. It is doable but we will need to nail our draft picks and make sure our development of our players is top notch.

In other words I think we are in for some tough times still for the next couple of years but we are on track to compete in 5 or so years time, however, being on the right track doesn't always mean you will get there.

 

[Flossie32]

It is a bit of an unfortunate position for the club to be in because on the one hand we have a very talented midfield entering it's prime, however, our backline is full of teenagers albeit talented ones and we have a young forward line and still lack an elite kpf prospect plus we have basically zero depth meaning we need to rebuild. If we get in Schache and Hipwood this year I think our KPP stocks are sorted but we will just have to wait for them to develop. The unfortunate thing is by the time they develop properly and are ready our midfield will have 1 or 2 years of good footy left in them if we are lucky.

That is why from next year onwards it is important to get some elite midfield talent in from the draft so we can have a prolonged period at the top. Luckily for us next year is said to have some very talented midfield prospects coming through. Things could finally be starting to align for our rebuild if we can get Schache, Hipwood and Keays this year and a gun midfielder next year with another top 5 draft pick. Keays, Mayes, Taylor and a top 5 draft pick midfielder next year plus other talents we pick up over the next 3-4 years should be able to form a solid enough midfield to take over from the likes of Rocky, DBeams, Hanley, Zorko, Rich, Bundy ect. and our KPP stocks should be sorted with Clarke, Andrews, Gardiner and Paparone in the backline and Schache and one of Freeman/Close up forward. McStay will be a quality swingman and Hipwood could end up at either end ideally up forward.

Let's say it will take 5 years for Schache, Hipwood ect. to develop. In 5 years time they will have 5 years under their belt whilst the others(Gardiner, McStay, Andrews ect.) will have 6-8 years. By this stage Rocklif, DBeams, Rich, Hanley, Zorko, Bundy ect. will be aged 29-31 and have maybe 2 or 3 years max left in them playing high quality football for us to be able to compete for a premiership. What the club needs to do is have a quality set of midfielders coming in behind them to take over resulting in a prolonged period at the top of the table. It is doable but we will need to nail our draft picks and make sure our development of our players is top notch.

In other words I think we are in for some tough times still for the next couple of years but we are on track to compete in 5 or so years time, however, being on the right track doesn't always mean you will get there.

Nice post - thorough. This is what Dismays me to an extent. In my old age I'm lacking patience, and really feel quite strongly that a senior player is required at KP position - even just 1 like Schulz (I know he's not on our radar) to help those young heads with their decision making and direct traffic in the forward line or a defence. When the pressure is on trying to keep things calm would be great. A lot of our kids "disengage brain" under pressure which is understood given their lack of experience, but my blood pressure can't take much more fumbling, confusion from the players, and lack of confidence. Also I'm keen for youth, but we need some older heads that aren't completely on the scrap heap just yet.

 

[a mayes ing]

Nice post - thorough. This is what Dismays me to an extent. In my old age I'm lacking patience, and really feel quite strongly that a senior player is required at KP position - even just 1 like Schulz (I know he's not on our radar) to help those young heads with their decision making and direct traffic in the forward line or a defence. When the pressure is on trying to keep things calm would be great. A lot of our kids "disengage brain" under pressure which is understood given their lack of experience, but my blood pressure can't take much more fumbling, confusion from the players, and lack of confidence. Also I'm keen for youth, but we need some older heads that aren't completely on the scrap heap just yet.

Yep. We need an experienced forward in our lineup. We have seen what it is like with youth being the main target. McStay isn't leading. We need a forward to show him and Close and Freeman and Schache where to lead and when to lead. Brown is our forward coach but our forwards aren't that good and not doing what is being said.

Even if it is just to get 1 or 2 goals a game and to take the number 1 defender from them. Get Schultz, l don't care. Tippet would be ideal l reckon if we dont get Dixon

 

[lukiuslion]

Yep. We need an experienced forward in our lineup. We have seen what it is like with youth being the main target. McStay isn't leading. We need a forward to show him and Close and Freeman and Schache where to lead and when to lead. Brown is our forward coach but our forwards aren't that good and not doing what is being said.

Even if it is just to get 1 or 2 goals a game and to take the number 1 defender from them. Get Schultz, l don't care. Tippet would be ideal l reckon if we dont get Dixon

I agree. We need an experienced head down there. Id be cool with schulze even if only for 2 years or something. People seem to think you can only trade or get a player if they are 'the answer' and are going to win you a flag. Fact is, IMO, sculze can offer a stop gap measure, We need someone to attract attention away from young keys.. It's just a must. If we roll into next year with the same forward line, we will get the same results.

 

[lionshine]

Nice post - thorough. This is what Dismays me to an extent. In my old age I'm lacking patience, and really feel quite strongly that a senior player is required at KP position - even just 1 like Schulz (I know he's not on our radar) to help those young heads with their decision making and direct traffic in the forward line or a defence. When the pressure is on trying to keep things calm would be great. A lot of our kids "disengage brain" under pressure which is understood given their lack of experience, but my blood pressure can't take much more fumbling, confusion from the players, and lack of confidence. Also I'm keen for youth, but we need some older heads that aren't completely on the scrap heap just yet.

Yep I agree with that. We have seen the positive impact Merrett had on our young defenders when he returned. They all walked a little taller. Not sure if Schultz is the answer but a bigger, experienced body to take some of the attention and heat off the likes of McStay and Freeman would have been very handy to have all year and will be important if a player like Schahce is drafted to the club. Hopefully McGuane can stay healthy enough to act as this player next year.

 

[Experimental]

I agree. We need an experienced head down there. Id be cool with schulze even if only for 2 years or something. People seem to think you can only trade or get a player if they are 'the answer' and are going to win you a flag. Fact is, IMO, sculze can offer a stop gap measure, We need someone to attract attention away from young keys.. It's just a must. If we roll into next year with the same forward line, we will get the same results.

Sorry to intrude, but the Lions could definitely lure Schulz up to Brisbane on a 2 year deal with the option of a 3rd + a guaranteed coaching job afterwards.

Combine his experience and forward line impact with young Schache and you've got a perfect combination.

Nick Malceski (ignore the fact that he's been injured all year and has spudded up our backline thus far) was lured up to to the GC on a 3 year contract with a move into coaching afterwards. It's currently his first year but he's coaching our academy team and has a lot to do with grass roots level footy around the coach. He's come to the club as a veteran player to help our young guys, play an experienced role down back, and to coach newcomers to the club in the coming years.

Despite his on field performance and his missed games, he's been a real asset off the field. Once his injury concerns are over, it'll pay off all around.

Compare this with Schulz coming up to Brissy on a similar offer and you've got a good thing going.

 

[captainrich]

Sorry to intrude, but the Lions could definitely lure Schulz up to Brisbane on a 2 year deal with the option of a 3rd + a guaranteed coaching job afterwards.

Combine his experience and forward line impact with young Schache and you've got a perfect combination.

Nick Malceski (ignore the fact that he's been injured all year and has spudded up our backline thus far) was lured up to to the GC on a 3 year contract with a move into coaching afterwards. It's currently his first year but he's coaching our academy team and has a lot to do with grass roots level footy around the coach. He's come to the club as a veteran player to help our young guys, play an experienced role down back, and to coach newcomers to the club in the coming years.

Despite his on field performance and his missed games, he's been a real asset off the field. Once his injury concerns are over, it'll pay off all around.

Compare this with Schulz coming up to Brissy on a similar offer and you've got a good thing going.

we already have a verry very good forwards coach

 

[a mayes ing]

we already have a verry very good forwards coach

Well that remains to be seen. Good players dont necessarily mean good coaches.

 

[lionshine]

Well that remains to be seen. Good players dont necessarily mean good coaches.

Hence the "" in captainrich's post...

 

[jjami15]

It is a bit of an unfortunate position for the club to be in because on the one hand we have a very talented midfield entering it's prime, however, our backline is full of teenagers albeit talented ones and we have a young forward line and still lack an elite kpf prospect plus we have basically zero depth meaning we need to rebuild. If we get in Schache and Hipwood this year I think our KPP stocks are sorted but we will just have to wait for them to develop. The unfortunate thing is by the time they develop properly and are ready our midfield will have 1 or 2 years of good footy left in them if we are lucky.

That is why from next year onwards it is important to get some elite midfield talent in from the draft so we can have a prolonged period at the top. Luckily for us next year is said to have some very talented midfield prospects coming through. Things could finally be starting to align for our rebuild if we can get Schache, Hipwood and Keays this year and a gun midfielder next year with another top 5 draft pick. Keays, Mayes, Taylor and a top 5 draft pick midfielder next year plus other talents we pick up over the next 3-4 years should be able to form a solid enough midfield to take over from the likes of Rocky, DBeams, Hanley, Zorko, Rich, Bundy ect. and our KPP stocks should be sorted with Clarke, Andrews, Gardiner and Paparone in the backline and Schache and one of Freeman/Close up forward. McStay will be a quality swingman and Hipwood could end up at either end ideally up forward.

Let's say it will take 5 years for Schache, Hipwood ect. to develop. In 5 years time they will have 5 years under their belt whilst the others(Gardiner, McStay, Andrews ect.) will have 6-8 years. By this stage Rocklif, DBeams, Rich, Hanley, Zorko, Bundy ect. will be aged 29-31 and have maybe 2 or 3 years max left in them playing high quality football for us to be able to compete for a premiership. What the club needs to do is have a quality set of midfielders coming in behind them to take over resulting in a prolonged period at the top of the table. It is doable but we will need to nail our draft picks and make sure our development of our players is top notch.

In other words I think we are in for some tough times still for the next couple of years but we are on track to compete in 5 or so years time, however, being on the right track doesn't always mean you will get there.

Well thought out post and identified a number of things. For me personally I hope that the club does go down this path and 'rebuild' properly. It will take patience but our impatience over the last decade has also contributed to us being in This position. 'Go home 5' didn't help but also the Fev trade and also in some small part using pick 14 acquired for Cameron Wood for Trav Johnstone is another indicator that the club has made errors along the way. Our attempts to acquire a mature KPF over the years didn't work and in some small part we took our eye of acquiring it through the draft during that time. With next years draft I can't see us making a barnstorming run up the ladder as Port or WB have recently so we should be to acquire two good mids in Allison and another and from then on with mids for a number of years. I just hope the club has the gumption to stick to its task in regards to its list profile and do it properly.

 

[Kevvo]

Together with Swann's comments about going to the draft, I can't help but feel this is the company line to prepare us for the fact that we have failed in trying to trade in any talent.
http://www.3aw.com.au/news/tom-rock...he-draft-not-free-agents-20150812-gixvmb.html

That could be right, but it could also be geared at helping our tilt at a priority pick/manipulated compo.

If we seem likely to nab a high profile key forward for next year, I'd guess the AFL was (even) less likely to look favorably on our position. Also, if we're publicly pursuing 'grow from within', it makes more sense for the AFL to help out by giving us a free hit on top-end talent. Your interpretation is simpler, but I can't believe we'd be ruling ourselves out this early on when:

- Dixon seems nearly certain to move
- we can most likely outbid and justify outbidding all other suitors by a fair way.

I reckon Swann might have quietly recommended we downplay our chances, in public at least.

Alternatively, maybe this is just desperate optimism from me.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

If Dixon wants a new start it is conceivable he might choose an interstate club over us even if it means less money.

 

[Ironmonger]

There has to be a point at which money stops being all that much of a motivator.

Say we offer $700k a season, and Freo offer $600k a season.

All else being equal, sure you might make more money at Brisbane, but you will still be able to set yourself up very nicely for the future with that $600k a season from Freo, and you have a very good chance at a flag in the next few years. That might seem particularly important when you're getting really sick and tired of losing with the Gold Coast Suns.

 

[chopperduck]

Yeah, I don't mind the line of thinking, just pre-emptively disappointed if it means what I think. Agree, we don't want to bring in players for the sake of experience alone. If there's nothing out there for us, then we have to just soldier on with what we've got and hope to find some more gems in the draft.
It does seem that we've been trying that for a very long time though.

We have, although we keep losing them which is the problem. I've mentioned before that we've done well with what picks we've had to get players like Rocky, Redden, Zorko along with the likes of McStay, Taylor, Gardiner and even with getting Martin. But because we never fully bottomed out and got those really high quality draft picks, we don't have the real top end talent. These players should be the cream on top, instead we rely on drafting gems late to remain competitive, and as good as the likes of Redden and Co are for late picks, they aren't the same quality. We've had high enough picks, with players like Doc, Polec and even Longer, who if we hung onto, would be primed to take over from Bergs (if he goes) and partner with Martin, who also doesn't have a lot of years left. We are missing those top line players.

Hopefully, by going to the draft with our top picks, it does sell a little bit of hope to the members for next year. We've had a tough year with injuries, and the new guys we brought in have been going very well. Combining them with some more top end youth should pay off. We just have to keep a hold of our draftees.

A good draft year from our academy with maybe 2 first round quality players, and it seems like another first round quality player next year. And these should be players that stick.

 

[chopperduck]

There has to be a point at which money stops being all that much of a motivator.

Say we offer $700k a season, and Freo offer $600k a season.

All else being equal, sure you might make more money at Brisbane, but you will still be able to set yourself up very nicely for the future with that $600k a season from Freo, and you have a very good chance at a flag in the next few years. That might seem particularly important when you're getting really sick and tired of losing with the Gold Coast Suns.

I think if the dollars are close enough, then it comes down to location, lifestyle, the club itself and finals chances. Money is the main motivator though, and considering these guys only have about 10 year careers i understand why. Especially with someone in Dixon's position. This is his money contract. Even if he plays another few years past this coming contract, it won't be on as much. He will probably make half of his career footy earnings on this contract.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think if the dollars are close enough, then it comes down to location, lifestyle, the club itself and finals chances. Money is the main motivator though, and considering these guys only have about 10 year careers i understand why. Especially with someone in Dixon's position. This is his money contract. Even if he plays another few years past this coming contract, it won't be on as much. He will probably make half of his career footy earnings on this contract.

I wonder. I think that's always been the assumption, but the experience of free agency and the difficulties the expansion clubs had recruiting established players even when waving a big pay cheque at them have shown that money doesn't motivate AFL players' club choice as much as we thought.

 

[Skoob]

There has to be a point at which money stops being all that much of a motivator.

Say we offer $700k a season, and Freo offer $600k a season.

All else being equal, sure you might make more money at Brisbane, but you will still be able to set yourself up very nicely for the future with that $600k a season from Freo, and you have a very good chance at a flag in the next few years. That might seem particularly important when you're getting really sick and tired of losing with the Gold Coast Suns.

Agree 100%. $100k diff might be enough of a decider, but there have been reports of smaller gaps (of what's rumoured anyway. Who knows what real figures are being thrown at him). A big factor is we don't know the real motivator for him, if he wants out of the coast. It could be that Brisbane is too close if he wants away.
Home sickness is a big factor for us, but equally, plenty of Qld lads would love to play in a traditional footy state like WA, SA or Vic. And honestly, $650k or $700k, who cares? In your 20s, I'm not convinced the difference matters a heap. Either way it's a fortune, and footy states offer better prospects for 3rd party payments/earning capacity.

 

[Skoob]

That could be right, but it could also be geared at helping our tilt at a priority pick/manipulated compo.

If we seem likely to nab a high profile key forward for next year, I'd guess the AFL was (even) less likely to look favorably on our position. Also, if we're publicly pursuing 'grow from within', it makes more sense for the AFL to help out by giving us a free hit on top-end talent. Your interpretation is simpler, but I can't believe we'd be ruling ourselves out this early on when:

- Dixon seems nearly certain to move
- we can most likely outbid and justify outbidding all other suitors by a fair way.

I reckon Swann might have quietly recommended we downplay our chances, in public at least.

Alternatively, maybe this is just desperate optimism from me.

Well, with your "desperate optimism" and my "sky falling" pessimism, hopefully the truth is somewhere in between (or closer to best case scenario). Anything is possible, I just seem to be grabbing a hold and posting my immediate negative thoughts lately. Just the way the game & (was going to say club, but more accurately) our club's circumstances have me feeling/thinking ATM.

 

[Skoob]

We have, although we keep losing them which is the problem. I've mentioned before that we've done well with what picks we've had to get players like Rocky, Redden, Zorko along with the likes of McStay, Taylor, Gardiner and even with getting Martin. But because we never fully bottomed out and got those really high quality draft picks, we don't have the real top end talent. These players should be the cream on top, instead we rely on drafting gems late to remain competitive, and as good as the likes of Redden and Co are for late picks, they aren't the same quality. We've had high enough picks, with players like Doc, Polec and even Longer, who if we hung onto, would be primed to take over from Bergs (if he goes) and partner with Martin, who also doesn't have a lot of years left. We are missing those top line players.

Hopefully, by going to the draft with our top picks, it does sell a little bit of hope to the members for next year. We've had a tough year with injuries, and the new guys we brought in have been going very well. Combining them with some more top end youth should pay off. We just have to keep a hold of our draftees.

A good draft year from our academy with maybe 2 first round quality players, and it seems like another first round quality player next year. And these should be players that stick.

I hope so, Chop.