The change at the back of our couches would be enough to clear all norfs debt, "Essendon in the crapper" where does that leave norf ? apart from begging to the afl ?
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Melbourne Clubs incompetent??
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Even tho this Winyhill person is obviously a financial guru ill try to add my own thoughts. Brisbane players are paid 10% above that of any other club (besides Sydney), Voss and a few others take 10% pay cuts after winning 2 flags, and fall back to a payment that they would have received at any other club.
Essendon have a great squad too, and to keep them together the players have to take less than they could get anywhere else. To a financial simpleton like myself it seems to obvious why Essendon found it harder than Brisbane to hold their list together.
Essendon have a great squad too, and to keep them together the players have to take less than they could get anywhere else. To a financial simpleton like myself it seems to obvious why Essendon found it harder than Brisbane to hold their list together.
Totally agree with you cant understand how the Brissie people cant see that players know that they can get more playing for Brissie because of the larger salary cap but it makes a joke that they are given the extra salary cap to retain local players yet they use it to poach top players from Vic clubs.
classicyds
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A couple of quick facts/observations.
1) What's the point having a salary cap when some clubs get more than others and some club's (namely us) aren't allowed to use their "full" amount??
2) The concept of players taking a pay cut to stay together is IMO appalling. Why should I accept less money so another person at my work, who may not be as good as I am, earn more or be retained...seriously that's ludicrous.
3) THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS INSANE AS NO-ONE REALLY BELIEVES THAT CLUBS STICK TO THEIR SALARY CAPS DO THEY??? LET'S GET REAL EVERYONE KNOWS THAT PLAYERS GET FINANCIAL RENUMERATION VIA OTHER MEANS THAN THE CAP.....IT'S A DEAD-SET WASTE OF TIME!!!!!
1) What's the point having a salary cap when some clubs get more than others and some club's (namely us) aren't allowed to use their "full" amount??
2) The concept of players taking a pay cut to stay together is IMO appalling. Why should I accept less money so another person at my work, who may not be as good as I am, earn more or be retained...seriously that's ludicrous.
3) THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS INSANE AS NO-ONE REALLY BELIEVES THAT CLUBS STICK TO THEIR SALARY CAPS DO THEY??? LET'S GET REAL EVERYONE KNOWS THAT PLAYERS GET FINANCIAL RENUMERATION VIA OTHER MEANS THAN THE CAP.....IT'S A DEAD-SET WASTE OF TIME!!!!!
This year it was Essendon, Melbourne and the Kangaroos. Next year it might be Brisbane, Port and Collingwood.
The fact is, you can't successfully manage player payments when you only plan a year or two in advance. A lot of clubs have loaded their players' contracts, which makes it a lot easier to trade them than keep them when they have a year left to run.
This is just an other example of mismanagement by clubs. Short sighted structuring of player contracts. As has been mentioned, there is a correction going on now. But its only just started. It will take another year or two before this is over so get used to it folks.
The fact is, you can't successfully manage player payments when you only plan a year or two in advance. A lot of clubs have loaded their players' contracts, which makes it a lot easier to trade them than keep them when they have a year left to run.
This is just an other example of mismanagement by clubs. Short sighted structuring of player contracts. As has been mentioned, there is a correction going on now. But its only just started. It will take another year or two before this is over so get used to it folks.
Get real. Who have Brisbane poached? There were 5 players who played in the GF from other clubs. Sure, Lynch was a poach, but name one club that didn't steal at least 1 Fitzroy player in their last 5-6 years. Brad Scott... wanted to be with his brother. So if that's wrong so was Anthony Rocca. Chris Johnson came out of the merger with Fitzroy. Pike was drafted. Mal Michael wanted to be with family in Brisbane. How have Brisbane behaved any differently from Victorian clubs? Stop having a sook and get over 2001 already. You lost, time to move on.
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Us "poaching" players
feck me that's rich coming from a state that's only reason for not seeing brissy as a nursery nowdays is because you actually finally got taught to respect us, no matter how little..You all crap on about the salary cap and what should be done...
Well lets see... last season Eddie and Kevin got so ****ing paranoid of losing to us yet again that they decided to whinge and bitch and moan until the zone rule was abolished..
And now that they've thought about the reason for it, they've suddenly realised "hey they weren't trying to **** us with that.. it was the SALARY CAP!!"
Now Kevin wants the zones back
Make up your mind arseh*le!@!+)#$One thing is very clear, as is previously noted. Yes the "Melbourne Mafia" has far too much influence in the decision making processes of the afl..
That fact is made blindingly obvious when certain people decide to have a sook and it's acted on as a serious issue, obviously without any thought for the real nature of the disparities.. is logic that hard to grasp??
The whole thing is loathsome and until we see some honesty over the decision making process we're not lilkely to trust an admin trying to remove our cap advantage.. After all what do this agitative melbourne based group propose to even up the playing field other than another round of 'lets see what we can get taken away from Brisbane whether it be legit and worthwhile or not'
I agree with the melbourne clubs on salary cap.. it's no longer of any use to us in retaining players.. Des Headland made that clear.
The money we have to find over other clubs is relocating family members etc to ensure our new arrivals at the club are happy here and hopefully want to play out their footballing days with us..
- Moderator
- #34
The cap isn't used to retain local players, as you claim. It's a player retention bonus. That is, it us used for helping to retain some of the 75%-80% interstate component of the Brisbane and Sydney lists, compared to roughly the 40%-55% interstate component of the other 14 clubs.
Personally if I had a choice between drafting a local player and the salary cap, I'd take the first one. If 40% of the Brisbane and Sydney's lists were local Quenslanders or New South Welshmen, then the salary cap bonus is not needed. It's highly ironic that Kevin Sheedy has now talked about perhaps a draft concession of a local player might be better for Brisbane and Sydney, when it was his club that was one of the leaders in pushing the priority pick for Brisbane and Sydney to be abolished.
Such as?
As CharlieG has already stated, the Bears may have 'poached' Lynch from Fitzroy, but they were one of the many clubs that did. In any case Lynch ended up being traded for draft selection 7 (with which Fitzroy drafted Chris Johnson)
Since the formation of the Brisbane Lions and the advent of the salary cap bonus, not one player has been "poached" from another club.
- Brad Scott traded for John Barker and Nathan Chapman.
- Chris Johnson (merger with Fitzroy).
- Adam Hueskes traded by Port Adelaide in the 1998 for #5.
- Martin Pike was drafted at #33 in the 2000 National Draft, after being delisted by North Melbourne.
- Mal Michael traded for Jarrod Molloy
- Stefan Carey was traded by Sydney for #21
- Mick Martin was traded by Western Bulldogs for Trent Bartlett and #32
- Martin McKinnon traded by Geelong for Tristan Lynch/Scott Bamford and #17
- David Calthorpe was drafted in 1999 after being delisted by Essendon
- Blake Caracella was traded by Essendon for Damian Cupido and a first round draft pick #17.
Which of these were poached again?
In that time we lost Rory Hilton and Shane O'Bree for nothing. You could say they were 'poached' by Richmond and Collingwood respectively.
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At the end of the day the clubs that achieve trading profits are the clubs that will survive for the long haul. Clearly Essendon has had to do some deals that they fervently would have wished they hadn't had to do to remain within the salary cap.
Nevertheless they will remain financially viable for the long haul. I would take Essendons fiscal results and onfield achievements over the last 20 years and happily translate them to be known as Fitzroy.
The day will dawn in the not too distant future when Brisbane will have to seriously put their steadily worsening financial position ahead of the salary cap, if I am not mistaken.
Football clubs should have as their highest priority, attaining long term sustainable budgetary situations, to ensure long term playing futures.
Nevertheless they will remain financially viable for the long haul. I would take Essendons fiscal results and onfield achievements over the last 20 years and happily translate them to be known as Fitzroy.
The day will dawn in the not too distant future when Brisbane will have to seriously put their steadily worsening financial position ahead of the salary cap, if I am not mistaken.
Football clubs should have as their highest priority, attaining long term sustainable budgetary situations, to ensure long term playing futures.
I understood Brisbane are doing OK off the field without being super rich. I know they are having big problmes with the people that run the Gabba charging like a raging bull for rent, but I would expect that will be resolved, because it's not in the Gabba's interests for the Lions to fold. Half of what they are getting now is better than the zero they would get from not having the Lions there at all.
Oh Rob we could only hope! paying half the rent we do now would see us making a profit akin to the $$ the Bombers have made, and hell, take that salary cap allowance off and there is another 560K that we wouldn't be paying out, and have us in a very healthy off field state indeed.
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Originally posted by topdon
Pardon?
Maybe you can explain how an $800,000 profit equates to financial mismanagement?
Well it doesn't of course,it equates to a club being socially and historically fortunate, but that's the luck of the draw. The interesting thing is that none of that profit came from football operations,despite the record members,huge supporter base and favourable draw not even Essendon could make money purely out of football. Their profit came from investments and gaming,income streams some of us simply don't have. You sound like someone from Toorak telling an unemployed family from Broady to" get their act together".You can probably guess what the Broady response would be!
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a tad wrong there mate.we got hilton we gave up a draft pick or picks in 3 way deal involving geelong if im not mistaken.
cheers!
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- #43
Yes, true. Brisbane were forced to trade Hilton (a #3 draft pick in two years before) for Richmond's Pick #24 in 1998, which was then ontraded to Geelong in the Martin McKinnon deal.
Shane O'Bree was picked up by Collingwood in the 2000 Pre-Season draft. Brisbane didn't receive anything for him.
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- #44
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that Brisbane has a steadily worsening financial position. While it is correct that Brisbane made an $845,390 loss in 2001, that loss was explainable for three main reasons:
1) the Brisbane Lions social club which lost $450,000 and up to $300,000 while it was operating as a day to day venue. When it reverted to a match day and event facility, it reduced its losses.
2) The reduction in corporate support due to the aftermath of the Sydney Olympics. The Lions' corporate sales were $1 million under what was expected.
3) The expensive annual Gabba Rent exceeding $2 million a year.
As for the future, it is likely that the Gabba rent will be re-negotiated. The club also cleared all its debt in 2001, with the sale of property near the Gabba. While the Lions originally forecast another $800,000 loss, it is estimated that approximately an extra $400,000-$500,000 have been made because of the premiership. Indeed one recent forecast suggested that the Lions will break approximately even for the 2002 year.
Keeping this in mind, the Lions financial future appears to be quite good. It's far from a "steadily worsening financial position."
You are kidding right ? They make most of their money from reserved seating, this happens when 70 % of their membership also reserve a seat, we are either one or two in terms of attendance, thus, when we are the home team we keep the majority of the profits, it`s our turn for the home Anzac Day fixture next season so there is another $6-700 thou in the bank already. norf have pokie joints like most other melbourne clubs.
Sheedy is just feeding the pigeons.
He is deliberately rebuilding. Seen the draft picks?
Who left, no-one that wasn't talked about during the year.
Hird is a good player and all, but over the last few years has his salary been earned? Sure he has only missed because of injury, but how much has he cost Essendon per game played?
He is deliberately rebuilding. Seen the draft picks?
Who left, no-one that wasn't talked about during the year.
Hird is a good player and all, but over the last few years has his salary been earned? Sure he has only missed because of injury, but how much has he cost Essendon per game played?
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Essendon's problems begin and end with Sheedy, with a little help from their administration. When are people going to realise this bloke is as dumb as dog****.
Sheedy's greatest achievement in football, as the no-clothes emperor, is to have conned another three year contract out of the club.
He's O.K., bad luck about the team.
If Brisbane's salary cap 'advantage' is such an issue, why don't the Melbourne mafia get together and change the rules? Is it possible they may not have the majority on the Commission required to do so?
Is this constant sniping from Essendon and Collingwood supporters yet another example of their appalling inability to accept their own teams' inadequacies?
Brisbane supporters are so devastated by this debate, because we really care. How much better for football would it have been if the previous two premierships were won by Essendon and Collingwood? It has affected me so deeply that my celebratory champagne just no longer complements the caviar as it used to.
Sheedy's greatest achievement in football, as the no-clothes emperor, is to have conned another three year contract out of the club.
He's O.K., bad luck about the team.
If Brisbane's salary cap 'advantage' is such an issue, why don't the Melbourne mafia get together and change the rules? Is it possible they may not have the majority on the Commission required to do so?
Is this constant sniping from Essendon and Collingwood supporters yet another example of their appalling inability to accept their own teams' inadequacies?
Brisbane supporters are so devastated by this debate, because we really care. How much better for football would it have been if the previous two premierships were won by Essendon and Collingwood? It has affected me so deeply that my celebratory champagne just no longer complements the caviar as it used to.
