Membership Meter

[Portia]

Re: Membership Metre

Sydney v Melbourne is just a set fixture, like the Showdowns.

Isn't that exactly the point?

All we're asking for is for the Dogs' Darwin game, if they have one, to be one of our away games. We've even offered to do regional development if its approved, which I know the Dees aren't doing in Sydney.

If Port v WBulldogs pulled 37,000 at AAMI it wouldn't be an issue. As it is it struggles to pull 25,000. At its best it is revenue neutral but more likely a money loser. And it gains us no support. Played in Darwin it makes us money and over the years the local kids will split into Port/Western Bulldogs supporters like my mates and I did with Port/Sturt in the 70s, coming into Adelaide to watch those games.

Yeah, great, but its quite feasible and reasonable for us to get that sort of split without us giving up one of our home games, by doing a deal with the AFL to be the preferred away side for Darwin games.

What is lost by the AFL for agreeing with us? Complaints from other clubs that don't want to travel?

 

[Portia]

Re: Membership Metre

The two points are this and what you seem to be omitting is that if there was a club that wanted to do this with Port it would happen.

I dunno about that.

The Kangas wanted to use Canberra games to fix up poor crowds vs interstate sides, yet the AFL are scheduling Vic sides against them up there. Same with Hawks/Saints and Tasmania.

The second point is the about collingwood sydney match etc This is beneficial for Sydney also hence the reason why it happens. It promotes as a big match with a large televised audience and large crowd which is good for the Sydney Football Club

Similarly, its beneficial to the Dogs' NT effort to have a Port Adelaide drawcard up there, rather than in Melbourne where they do always make a loss.

The point I made was that if they dont want to give up home games then they may as well forget trying to do any promoting in Darwin.

And why is that?

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Re: Membership Metre

Something that needs consideration in all of this is that the Melbourne clubs play most of their games in Melbourne. Their fans get to see them about 75% of the time and in the case of favoured clubs like the Pies even more often. For the fans of the non Victorian clubs who already play interstate almost 50% of the time giving up a home game has a major impact on their home state supporters.

It's surprising that relapse as a fan of the Crows hasn't considered this.

 

[Mong]

I think we need 24k to break even, and we usually get above that.

I'm interested in further explanation on this. Membership/season tickets are paid for at the start of the season and whether the people turn up or not, the money is with the club. Game day revenue consists of:

a) Individual match day tickets, which I understand the revenue doesn't go directly to the club. It goes to the AFL for even distribution to all clubs at the end of the season.

b) Carparking, food and drinks sold, which the money goes to the SANFL as owners of the ground.

I always thought that even if 10k turned up, it wouldn't hurt a club if they have good membership figures. Where have I gone wrong with this?

 

[Andre]

Re: Membership Metre

If the AFL was serious about promoting the game outside of Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney, Perth and Brisbane they'd only schedule 10 home games for each club. The 11th home game that no longer is, would be scheduled in either Tasmania, Canberra, Darwin, Alice Springs, NZ or other remote locations - each side being able to choose where their 'away from home, home game' is. All costs involved would be covered by the AFL, including costs to promote the club at that match.

Clubs would still be able to sell/relocate home games on top of this - eg. Saints/Hawks to Tasmania, Roos to Canberra, but EVERY side would have one home game outside an existing footy spot.

So for instance Port could say they want to play a 'home' match in Darwin each year, and the AFL would come to the party and pay match and promotional costs for it. If multiple clubs want to target the same market, then they could come to agreements that they'd play their 'home' matches against one another - eg. Port and Bulldogs play twice in Darwin - once our home game, once theirs - the only difference is who's promotional costs get covered.

Clubs (including ours) would scream blue murder at this, but if the AFL was serious about growing the game in new markets it's something they should seriously be looking at. I'd like to see it done - but then I wouldn't lose the home game, since I don't live in Adelaide, but even if I did, I see it as a small price to increase the AFL's and more importantly's Port's supporter base on more then a one off, fly by night venture somewhere.

 

[Portia]

I'm interested in further explanation on this. Membership/season tickets are paid for at the start of the season and whether the people turn up or not, the money is with the club. Game day revenue consists of:

a) Individual match day tickets, which I understand the revenue doesn't go directly to the club. It goes to the AFL for even distribution to all clubs at the end of the season.

b) Carparking, food and drinks sold, which the money goes to the SANFL as owners of the ground.

I always thought that even if 10k turned up, it wouldn't hurt a club if they have good membership figures. Where have I gone wrong with this?

I believe there's something about penalties for not matching expected catering, and that sort of thing. Don't ask me for a detailed explanation, because I can't give one - I just recall Bucky talking about a 24k? breakeven point a couple of years back. Also stuff like how Telstra Dome is more expensive for Vic clubs to break even at than the MCG.

 

[Powerstufff]

Re: Membership Metre

If the AFL was serious about promoting the game outside of Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney, Perth and Brisbane they'd only schedule 10 home games for each club. The 11th home game that no longer is, would be scheduled in either Tasmania, Canberra, Darwin, Alice Springs, NZ or other remote locations - each side being able to choose where their 'away from home, home game' is.......

That's a very good idea. I reckon you should post it on the main board for wider discussion.

BTW moderators is there any chance of 'splitting' this thread? Buried inside the Membership thread it's not getting the exposure it warrants.

 

[Portia]

Re: Membership Metre

If the AFL was serious about promoting the game outside of Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney, Perth and Brisbane they'd only schedule 10 home games for each club. The 11th home game that no longer is, would be scheduled in either Tasmania, Canberra, Darwin, Alice Springs, NZ or other remote locations - each side being able to choose where their 'away from home, home game' is. All costs involved would be covered by the AFL, including costs to promote the club at that match.

Clubs would still be able to sell/relocate home games on top of this - eg. Saints/Hawks to Tasmania, Roos to Canberra, but EVERY side would have one home game outside an existing footy spot.

So for instance Port could say they want to play a 'home' match in Darwin each year, and the AFL would come to the party and pay match and promotional costs for it. If multiple clubs want to target the same market, then they could come to agreements that they'd play their 'home' matches against one another - eg. Port and Bulldogs play twice in Darwin - once our home game, once theirs - the only difference is who's promotional costs get covered.

Clubs (including ours) would scream blue murder at this, but if the AFL was serious about growing the game in new markets it's something they should seriously be looking at. I'd like to see it done - but then I wouldn't lose the home game, since I don't live in Adelaide, but even if I did, I see it as a small price to increase the AFL's and more importantly's Port's supporter base on more then a one off, fly by night venture somewhere.

Another solution: 24 week season, 11 home games each, 1 away home game.

Rds 1-7 weeks normal, Rd8 at away home, week off
Rd 9-15 normal, Rd16 at the other away home, week off
Rd 17-24 normal, finals.

 

[PAFC forever]

Re: Membership Metre

Something that needs consideration in all of this is that the Melbourne clubs play most of their games in Melbourne. Their fans get to see them about 75% of the time and in the case of favoured clubs like the Pies even more often. For the fans of the non Victorian clubs who already play interstate almost 50% of the time giving up a home game has a major impact on their home state supporters.

It's surprising that relapse as a fan of the Crows hasn't considered this.

This is why I think it should be a Bulldogs home game. We don’t want to lose a home game because that will affect the membership numbers in Adelaide. Its pretty pointless gaining members up there if going to lose members down here.

Port plays 12 games in SA (1 away game) while the bulldogs play 15 games in VIC (5 away games) and they are also playing Carlton in NT as a home game this year anyway. You would think in Melbourne the Western Bulldogs would make more money by playing Carlton then Port Adelaide so change the game to Western Bulldog v Port Adelaide in Darwin simple

 

[Portia]

Re: Membership Metre

Port plays 12 games in SA (1 away game) while the bulldogs play 15 games in VIC (5 away games) and they are also playing Carlton in NT as a home game this year anyway. You would think in Melbourne the Western Bulldogs would make more money by playing Carlton then Port Adelaide so change the game to Western Bulldog v Port Adelaide in Darwin simple

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I doubt the Dogs are so pleased to have Carlton up there and Port in Melbourne.

It should also be pointed out that all these Victorian clubs that trade homegames have measures in place to let their members gain admission to an away game in Melbourne as part of their membership.

We obviously can't do that with Showdowns.

 

[Powerstufff]

I believe there's something about penalties for not matching expected catering, and that sort of thing. Don't ask me for a detailed explanation, because I can't give one - I just recall Bucky talking about a 24k? breakeven point a couple of years back. Also stuff like how Telstra Dome is more expensive for Vic clubs to break even at than the MCG.

As I understand it too. Though obviously 24,000 season ticket holders (whose money goes to Port) is better than 10,000 season ticket holders and 14,000 daily ticket holders (whose money goes partly to Port but mostly to the SANFL as I understand it).

 

[Powerstufff]

Re: Membership Metre

.....they (Western Bulldogs) are also playing Carlton in NT as a home game this year anyway. You would think in Melbourne the Western Bulldogs would make more money by playing Carlton then Port Adelaide so change the game to Western Bulldog v Port Adelaide in Darwin simple

Hmmmm. Unargueable really. What odd fixturing.

 

[Mong]

Re: Membership Metre

Hmmmm. Unargueable really. What odd fixturing.

That depends on whether the first priority of fixturing should be based on making the most money or whether other factors such as fairness of the competition should be considered.

I know this is the AFL we're talking about so money is often more important than fair scheduling but it shouldn't be the case.

 

[Portia]

Re: Membership Metre

If fair scheduling mattered, then interstate sides wouldn't be travelling to Canberra or Tasmania for a few years from now to even out the discrepancy.

 

[Mong]

Re: Membership Metre

If fair scheduling mattered, then interstate sides wouldn't be travelling to Canberra or Tasmania for a few years from now to even out the discrepancy.

Or Darwin?