Analysis Mental Weakness

[Arr0w]

There are so many variables. Confidence breeds confidence. They got in a run and even when challenged, they trusted each other enough that they could flick a switch. There were some late signs coming into finals that things were deteriorating. Gold Coast really challenged us and GWS beat us. In the finals Swans charged back at us, but Melbourne were the ones who fell apart in the Semi. I feel our whole game plan changed over this period too. It was slowly being picked apart.

Confidence and attitude are fickle things. You just need to lose a tiny bit of confidence in one or two teammates, and suddenly you aren't using them as much, or you aren't running on because you don't trust them to secure possession, and hey presto ... we fall apart all over the field.

How do we make it so everybody stays positive and works hard for each other?

I guess similar was said from the back end of 2022, to midway 2023, Voss can't coach, shite gameplan, players mentally weak, and then we went on a run

I'm not sure we should label inconsistency as mental weakness, otherwise, most sides would be deemed in a similar fashion each year

Although, I am looking forward to revisiting this thread as the year progresses

 

[bourbons]

Good starting point to explore

If we concede that the playing group was largely the same in the back half of 2023 to now, were they mentally strong when we were on a run, winning close games, etc and now deemed to be mentally weak?

Coz everyone had written them off and expected a bottom 6 finish, the expectation to perform and make finals wasn't there any more, they were playing freely and essentially with house money at that point (as we'd already lost all of our own lol). They started playing better at pretty much the exact moment this happened, the timing is too suspicious imo.

Similar thing happened in reverse last year - a game clear in 2nd, had just beaten Geelong by 10 goals, equal flag favourites, everyone talking them up as a top 4 lock. As soon as that pressure/expectation comes into sharp focus we go to water, every time.

 

[Stamos]

If we concede that the playing group was largely the same in the back half of 2023 to now, were they mentally strong when we were on a run, winning close games, etc and now deemed to be mentally weak?

Was the team mentally strong in back half of 23?
Not really. There were good improving signs that we were toughening up, but we were not quite there. Which was proven by the regression last year. Whately talked about the weight we carry this week (it’s in the media thread). We struggle with expectation.

In 23 they only started to get into gear after hitting rock bottom during the diabolical first half of the season.
Suddenly there was no more expectation, and then they started winning.
Got on a roll, played how we should, win 8 in a row.
Then we come up against the Suns to secure our finals spot. And we give them a 7 goal head start.
Great effort to fight back, on the back of Charlie, but that game should have been an easy win for us.

A few weeks later dominating our first final, and we tighten up and let the Swans back in. Sure we held on, but bloody hell we came close to bottling a game we were dominating.

The Giants game last year is another prime example. It’s the way we lose, or let teams back into games, that shows that we don’t have the mental strength required yet.
But as we’ve seen with other teams like Geelong and Richmond, it can click.

Hopefully it clicks for us this week.

 

[Arr0w]

Coz everyone had written them off and expected a bottom 6 finish, the expectation to perform and make finals wasn't there any more, they were playing freely and essentially with house money at that point (as we'd already lost all of our own lol). They started playing better at pretty much the exact moment this happened, the timing is too suspicious imo.

Similar thing happened in reverse last year - a game clear in 2nd, had just beaten Geelong by 10 goals, equal flag favourites, everyone talking them up as a top 4 lock. As soon as that pressure/expectation comes into sharp focus we go to water, every time.

Many things are the catalyst for change in one direction or another

My main focus would be achieving a baseline of consistency

Although a number of sides go on a run or falter at different stages

An individual, yes, but I don't subscribe to a group being "mentally weak" in professional environments

 

[Soapy V]

Coz everyone had written them off and expected a bottom 6 finish, the expectation to perform and make finals wasn't there any more, they were playing freely and essentially with house money at that point (as we'd already lost all of our own lol). They started playing better at pretty much the exact moment this happened, the timing is too suspicious imo.

Similar thing happened in reverse last year - a game clear in 2nd, had just beaten Geelong by 10 goals, equal flag favourites, everyone talking them up as a top 4 lock. As soon as that pressure/expectation comes into sharp focus we go to water, every time.

Good point

 

[gbatman]

What generates confidence and hunger and motivation? Reward for effort. When you are dominating play and hardly scoring it's not only exhausting but demotivating.

Kicking goals. Running good plays and scoring goals. It gets everyone up and about. 65 inside 50's and hardly scoring is crushing physically and mentally. It got to the point we had very little more to give.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

 

[Turnover Goal]

Been involved in pro sports

Mentality and 'being switched on' etc comes from 2 things really.

Confidence and clarity. Both are set by the club atmosphere and the coach. If you dont have to think on the field and can just do and thrive as part of the system you're 99% of.the way to success.

This club has neither. Manifests on field.as a lack of effort. I don't believe that's true. It's the extra half second thinking 'am I supposed to be there' or 'wait was that me or him supposed to do that'. And by the time you're questioning you're done.

That and there's absolutely 0 chance there aren't players in this team thinking 'kennedy is.getting *ed over' - 'why the * is x always picked over y? Wtf'

Confidence and Clarity - I couldn't agree more and it's something I havent seen for over 2 decades at Carlton

 

[JustOneTime]

Coz everyone had written them off and expected a bottom 6 finish, the expectation to perform and make finals wasn't there any more, they were playing freely and essentially with house money at that point (as we'd already lost all of our own lol). They started playing better at pretty much the exact moment this happened, the timing is too suspicious imo.

Similar thing happened in reverse last year - a game clear in 2nd, had just beaten Geelong by 10 goals, equal flag favourites, everyone talking them up as a top 4 lock. As soon as that pressure/expectation comes into sharp focus we go to water, every time.

Personally think the first part of this is correct and the second half in incorrect. We folded last year as we were physically banged up. Charlies ankle kicked in, they hid it from the media/supporters and he was a shadow of himslef late season. Walsh faded too after an interrupted pre-season finally caught up with him.

We rely on a group of 7-8 players to carry us. They do soo much work under this stoppage/pack mark game that they suffer late season. No easy goals for Carlton - all physically earned in bruising encounters.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Been involved in pro sports

Mentality and 'being switched on' etc comes from 2 things really.

Confidence and clarity. Both are set by the club atmosphere and the coach. If you dont have to think on the field and can just do and thrive as part of the system you're 99% of.the way to success.

This club has neither. Manifests on field.as a lack of effort. I don't believe that's true. It's the extra half second thinking 'am I supposed to be there' or 'wait was that me or him supposed to do that'. And by the time you're questioning you're done.

That and there's absolutely 0 chance there aren't players in this team thinking 'kennedy is.getting *ed over' - 'why the * is x always picked over y? Wtf'

Great post.

 

[Turnover Goal]

Resilience may be the word everyone is looking for.

Indeed...ruthlessness and spirit also come to mind. I can easily name 10 players in our last premiership side that were resilient, ruthless and played with spirit.

In guernsey order:
#1 Steven Silvagni
#2 Greg Williams
#4 Stephen Kernahan
#5 Andrew McKay
#7 Brett Ratten
#11 Earl Spalding
#14 Michael Sexton
#20 Fraser Brown
#23 Dean Rice
#35 Peter Dean

Unfortunately, in the last 20 years our better players (Excluding Judd who we recruited) have been the likes of Fevola, Murphy, Gibbs, Walker, Simpson etc. I'm certainly not knocking them, though they were never feared by the opposition.

Kreuzer embodied the 'Old Carlton' but injuries ruined him unfortunately.

In our current group - only Cripps, De Koning and maybe Weitering wouldn't look out of place in that group of '95 names (On those 3 traits not ability)

That's my reality and doesn't mean that I'm right.

 

[Opium]

Been involved in pro sports

Mentality and 'being switched on' etc comes from 2 things really.

Confidence and clarity. Both are set by the club atmosphere and the coach. If you dont have to think on the field and can just do and thrive as part of the system you're 99% of.the way to success.

This club has neither. Manifests on field.as a lack of effort. I don't believe that's true. It's the extra half second thinking 'am I supposed to be there' or 'wait was that me or him supposed to do that'. And by the time you're questioning you're done.

That and there's absolutely 0 chance there aren't players in this team thinking 'kennedy is.getting *ed over' - 'why the * is x always picked over y? Wtf'

Exactly. Lack of clarity and selection integrity will always create division amongst a playing group. It's human nature. Players all want their chance to play seniors AFL. This explains why we've had very little growth from our younger players. Are the coaches aligned with the younger players and what they need to do to get selected? Wilson has only ever played VFL. That's the only level he's been exposed to. The longer he stays in the seconds the harder it is to make it at senior level.

 

[bourbons]

An individual, yes, but I don't subscribe to a group being "mentally weak" in professional environments

A group is made up of individuals.

I'd suggest we have more mentally weak individuals on our list than most other teams.

 

[bourbons]

Personally think the first part of this is correct and the second half in incorrect. We folded last year as we were physically banged up. Charlies ankle kicked in, they hid it from the media/supporters and he was a shadow of himslef late season. Walsh faded too after an interrupted pre-season finally caught up with him.

We rely on a group of 7-8 players to carry us. They do soo much work under this stoppage/pack mark game that they suffer late season. No easy goals for Carlton - all physically earned in bruising encounters.

Yeah probably a bit in that too. We win games on a 'brute force' kinda approach, not much system.

Looks great when we're dominating clearances and Charlie or Harry are clunking contested marks. Looks absolutely putrid when either of those 2 things are not happening.

 

[Stamos]

A group is made up of individuals.

I'd suggest we have more mentally weak individuals on our list than most other teams.

I think it's the collective that's the problem, not individuals.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Yeah probably a bit in that too. We win games on a 'brute force' kinda approach, not much system.

Looks great when we're dominating clearances and Charlie or Harry are clunking contested marks. Looks absolutely putrid when either of those 2 things are not happening.

This.

 

[Thrawn]

Had the opportunity to trade Harry for Petracca last year. Huge lost opportunity.

 

[Soapy V]

Yeah probably a bit in that too. We win games on a 'brute force' kinda approach, not much system.

Looks great when we're dominating clearances and Charlie or Harry are clunking contested marks. Looks absolutely putrid when either of those 2 things are not happening.

Nailed it

Look at all our wins over last 12 months. Cripps & Walsh dominating middle and McKay and Curnow taking marks and kicking goals.

Walsh's performances has fallen away as has Harry & Charlie (all for varying reasons) and we have struggled

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Momentum is a crazy thing. We rode it and were great. Haven't been close since

Since R17 last year…

What do you think could have killed that momentum?

How did we reach a clear 2nd on the ladder at R17 - momentum?

How was that momentum created?

Momentum doesn’t just happen & doesn’t just disappear with the wind like a virus.

There are clear reasons for gaining it & apparently losing it .

 

[Soapy V]

Since R17 last year…

What do you think could have killed that momentum?

How did we reach a clear 2nd on the ladder at R17 - momentum?

How was that momentum created?

Momentum doesn’t just happen & doesn’t just disappear with the wind like a virus.

There are clear reasons for gaining it & apparently losing it .

Actually does. That is defintion of momentum. You can't manufacturer it

 

[bradfisher14]

Actually does. That is defintion of momentum. You can't manufacturer it

You absolutely can.

The best/mentally strongest teams find a way to generate momentum for themselves.

We on the other hand allow momentum to come and go.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Actually does. That is defintion of momentum. You can't manufacturer it

IMHO - That’s not right Mr. V .

Momentum can be managed and controlled through belief, systems, performing your role, action.

You can create momentum, maintain it & you can kill it through your deliberate action.

Interesting discussion about our team selection this week - so many asking for heads to roll.

If those heads rolled, would that help build momentum - or sink us further.

Voss is of the opinion it would sink us further - give the team a chance at redemption - imaging the momentum that could bring…!

I love that way of thinking - it’s powerful statement.

 

[bourbons]

Had the opportunity to trade Harry for Petracca last year. Huge lost opportunity.

I wouldn't have gone Petracca, 29 and we have similar types.

I'd be open to trading Harry for a decent KPD to help Weiters or an actually good small forward though.

 

[Rustica]

I wouldn't have gone Petracca, 29 and we have similar types.

I'd be open to trading Harry for a decent KPD to help Weiters or an actually good small forward though.

Something like Harry for Mac Andrew + Humphrey

They can have a Ben King + Harry forward combo with still enough talent coming through their academy

 

[bourbons]

Something like Harry for Mac Andrew + Humphrey

They can have a Ben King + Harry forward combo with still enough talent coming through their academy

Someone in another thread (sorry can't remember which) said you can win a flag without a dominant key forward, but you can't without a couple of decent small forwards.

I think thats probably right.