Analysis Mental Weakness

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bradfisher14

bradfisher14

Not actually Brad Fisher
Aug 24, 2021
2,114
7,153
Stuck on 99 games
AFL Club
Carlton
This thread is NOT just about the players or the result today.

It's about the body of work over a number of years as an entire football department.


I couldn't decide which thread to post in about this, so I thought I'd make a new one considering the impact of this issue.

Could've been the threads about list management, the head of football, or the senior coach.

What is the club going to do about the fragility of the entire football department?

Enough is enough. This isn't just about the result today. It's about a body of work over a number of years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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Shitty thread. Our kids were great but like has been mentioned earlier why has Voss taken so long to play em and not blooded them in throughout the whole season?

I am hurting but so proud at the same time which is a weird feeling. 😏
 
bradfisher14 said:
I couldn't decide which thread to post in about this, so I thought I'd make a new one considering the impact of this issue.

Could've been the threads about list management, the head of football, or the senior coach.

What is the club going to do about the fragility of the entire football department?

Enough is enough. This isn't just about the result today. It's about a body of work over a number of years.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure most supporters are gutted, but seriously if you want to create a thread of value talk about fitness & conditioning & health of the list, that is one of our biggest issues.

Seriously disappointing the way we lost, but cannot fault the spirit & endeavour today, unlike some posters on here taking cheap shots.
 
Soapy V said:
Last two weeks have shown me a real mental toughness from our group

Missing so many players WE have stood up. Effort has been awesome

Take 10 or more of best players out of any side and they will struggle.

My question is why younger players weren’t played sooner
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This has been my question all year given Voss' mantra of 'next man up'. No reward, no depth building during the year, just play our injured champs at all cost.
 
I really thought we gave it our best crack today. Was somewhat ironic that our biggest issue (defensive 50 stoppage) was once again our bane. I'm completely content as a supporter as I think we'd be lambs a slaughter at the Gabba anyway with the absolutely disastrous high performance program issues this season. Some much needed list changes cannot be overlooked or papered over now. It's time to get to work Austin, Voss & co.
 

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ferrisb said:
Didn't we win like 8 games in a row* by less then 10 points last/this year?






* or something like that. CBF looking up the actual numbers right now.
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We had a great run last year ...

But we needed to have that great run because of the terrible way we started the year.

2022 we also had a poor run of four losses in a row to end the year.

Why do we always have wild bouts of inconsistency as a football club?

It's not good enough.
 
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TJohn said:
C’mon Man. Be Positive.
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I'm all good mate.

This thread is an attempt to have a dispassionate discussion about what I believe is the biggest obstacle that stands between our group and the club's next premiership.

Here's some genuine positivity: I am certain that these players are talented enough to win our next flag. Are the players and football department around them mentally strong enough? I have some doubts.
 
Soapy V said:
Last two weeks have shown me a real mental toughness from our group

Missing so many players WE have stood up. Effort has been awesome

Take 10 or more of best players out of any side and they will struggle.

My question is why younger players weren’t played sooner
Click to expand...
Mental weakness huh? There are mental frailties among all groups and individuals.

When it applies to a footy team, in particular our footy team, the greatest influence on it is just that, the sense of team. The sense of belonging, feeling a part of something and ultimately contributing to that something. Collective ownership.

The most obvious example to epitomise this is one Tom De Koning. The amount of questions posed about him over the last couple of years regarding ruck craft and even more obviously forward craft. In his development years playing in the twos as well as his underage career, Tom kicked some amazing goals from all angles and rarely missed a straight forward shot.

Prior to assuming the mantle of no. 1 ruck in the middle of the season, he was as flaky as hell in front of the big sticks. He missed more shots than he kicked, and missed some he should absolutely have kicked. TDK was always going to mature and improve. I don’t think many of us expected the monumental improvement in his ruck work. On the back of the rucking he started hitting the scoreboard, from long range, snaps and set shots. His belief took him from “almost” to a star of the game, virtually overnight. A huge part of that was escaping from the debate of who our number one ruck was. He was/is the man, it is no longer “can I” or “if”, he just gets it done. It is up to Voss and company to reinforce that belief in our upcoming pre season.

Last week and this week put a few youngsters on display. Youngsters the coaching group have been reticent to play. The kids stood up, some in unfamiliar roles even. As an aside, I was dumbfounded why Jack Carroll did not get more midfield time and indeed why he was subbed off. We had others suffering physically as well as four small forwards playing underwhelming footy while the talls struggled for real opportunity.

Ashton Moir needed to be given the opportunity to impact earlier. His two cameos have been impressive. I can’t help thinking Vossy is going to slip back to stay with his staples, in the same bloody roles week after week. Our young group is much better than most give them credit for. They need a career path. Some may not be ready to displace the incumbent players, but they need opportunity. They do not need to see wounded warriors sent out week after week while they stagnate in an ordinary seconds side.

Most mental frailties in sport are through questioning their own worth, their readiness. So much contributes to their positive and negative mentality, their confidence. Plenty comes from within, but in a team sport the lion’s share comes from team ethos. Faith, belonging, embracing responsibility, thriving on the opportunity to contribute.

Creating a TEAM, is more important than bombarding the group with instructions, which can adversely effect clarity of thought and confidence. I am more concerned with the mental frailty of a player who can’t kick past forty metres taking potshots at goal from fifty metres with two oppo players in the square, when a game is on the line, than I am with skill errors under pressure at the death.
 
Coona Blues said:
Mental weakness huh? There are mental frailties among all groups and individuals.

When it applies to a footy team, in particular our footy team, the greatest influence on it is just that, the sense of team. The sense of belonging, feeling a part of something and ultimately contributing to that something. Collective ownership.

The most obvious example to epitomise this is one Tom De Koning. The amount of questions posed about him over the last couple of years regarding ruck craft and even more obviously forward craft. In his development years playing in the twos as well as his underage career, Tom kicked some amazing goals from all angles and rarely missed a straight forward shot.

Prior to assuming the mantle of no. 1 ruck in the middle of the season, he was as flaky as hell in front of the big sticks. He missed more shots than he kicked, and missed some he should absolutely have kicked. TDK was always going to mature and improve. I don’t think many of us expected the monumental improvement in his ruck work. On the back of the rucking he started hitting the scoreboard, from long range, snaps and set shots. His belief took him from “almost” to a star of the game, virtually overnight. A huge part of that was escaping from the debate of who our number one ruck was. He was/is the man, it is no longer “can I” or “if”, he just gets it done. It is up to Voss and company to reinforce that belief in our upcoming pre season.

Last week and this week put a few youngsters on display. Youngsters the coaching group have been reticent to play. The kids stood up, some in unfamiliar roles even. As an aside, I was dumbfounded why Jack Carroll did not get more midfield time and indeed why he was subbed off. We had others suffering physically as well as four small forwards playing underwhelming footy while the talls struggled for real opportunity.

Ashton Moir needed to be given the opportunity to impact earlier. His two cameos have been impressive. I can’t help thinking Vossy is going to slip back to stay with his staples, in the same bloody roles week after week. Our young group is much better than most give them credit for. They need a career path. Some may not be ready to displace the incumbent players, but they need opportunity. They do not need to see wounded warriors sent out week after week while they stagnate in an ordinary seconds side.

Most mental frailties in sport are through questioning their own worth, their readiness. So much contributes to their positive and negative mentality, their confidence. Plenty comes from within, but in a team sport the lion’s share comes from team ethos. Faith, belonging, embracing responsibility, thriving on the opportunity to contribute.

Creating a TEAM, is more important than bombarding the group with instructions, which can adversely effect clarity of thought and confidence. I am more concerned with the mental frailty of a player who can’t kick past forty metres taking potshots at goal from fifty metres with two oppo players in the square, when a game is on the line, than I am with skill errors under pressure at the death.
Click to expand...
Great post Coona, l don't see this group as fragile, Vossy will need to make some refinements to his coaching, seems to have his favs, TDK massive loss, he will need to back in these younger boys next year, not sure how George Hewett was dropped some time back, been our 2nd best mid in recent times, Moir should have played earlier today, Binns & Carroll have not been played enough.
 
macky99 said:
Pretty sure most supporters are gutted, but seriously if you want to create a thread of value talk about fitness & conditioning & health of the list, that is one of our biggest issues.

Seriously disappointing the way we lost, but cannot fault the spirit & endeavour today, unlike some posters on here taking cheap shots.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Yeah it sucks, but with *Richmond levels of injuries it's not entirely unexpected.

(* Actually haven't looked at their list just now but I recall their injury list being pretty long)
 
CCurnow3votes said:
This thread is mentally weak.

Our team today was a bunch of kids and a sprinkling of leaders.

They played their guts out & could easily have let it go when we were 20 pts down several times.

It’s gut-wrenching but the last thing our team deserves is to be called mentally weak.

Poor form.
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It's been an issue for 20 years. It's a club issue.

How many times have we won five in a row in that time? Three in a row?

How many times have we lost games we were hot favourites? Milestone matches?

Have a look at our winning streak records and you won't find anything decent after the early 2000s.

This list and the one before and the one before don't seem to be able to truly believe (2023 finals run apart).

This is despite having some of the best individual players in the league in that time.
 
branedotorg said:
It's been an issue for 20 years. It's a club issue.

How many times have we won five in a row in that time? Three in a row?

How many times have we lost games we were hot favourites? Milestone matches?

Have a look at our winning streak records and you won't find anything decent after the early 2000s.

This list and the one before and the one before don't seem to be able to truly believe (2023 finals run apart).

This is despite having some of the best individual players in the league in that time.
Click to expand...
That’s not a lack of mental toughness, nor was this game an example.

We are still learning & will grow from what they’ve had to overcome the past 4 weeks.

Individuals win moments - teams win premierships - still learning to be one.
 
CCurnow3votes said:
That’s not a lack of mental toughness, nor was this game an example.

We are still learning & will grow from what they’ve had to overcome the past 4 weeks.

Individuals win moments - teams win premierships - still learning to be one.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree then, some clubs have teams that expect to win, Geelong and Hawthorn dynasties expected to win and other clubs expected it too. It's run through list renewals so it's culture, not just individual leadership.

I don't think other clubs ever think they're out of the game against us before the bounce.

Reminds of Roy Keane story about Alec Ferguson... "Don't worry lads, it's only Tottenham"
 
branedotorg said:
Agree to disagree then, some clubs have teams that expect to win, Geelong and Hawthorn dynasties expected to win and other clubs expected it too. It's run through list renewals so it's culture, not just individual leadership.

I don't think other clubs ever think they're out of the game against us before the bounce.

Reminds of Roy Keane story about Alec Ferguson... "Don't worry lads, it's only Tottenham"
Click to expand...
Indeed we will.

I think other teams know they’ll be up for a fight -that’s not about mental weakness - IMHO.

More our lack of polish & confidence playing together.

Our forward balance is fascinating - what do we gain from H&C & what do we sacrifice?

We are still learning what the best version of us, is.

I don’t think it’s mental weakness - it’s really experience - luckily we have at least one more to come :).
 

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Analysis Mental Weakness

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