Coach Michael Voss

[Arr0w]

No coach is the finished product, this mainly stems from an ever changing list and the game itself

For me, it's about how one adapts, which is a challenge for all coaches

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We were humming in the first half.

No we weren't. We were scraping through wins questionably. We hummed for 1 maybe 2 rounds.

• Tight win vs an asleep Brisbane
• tight win vs an utterly shit Richmond
• Thumped an utterly shit north but let in way too many points - wasn't good nor humming.
• Tight win in Perth - good fight.
• Utterly shit performance vs adelaide
• Superstars dominate vs gws
• Embarassing initial game vs Geelong. Sloppy nonsense.
• same sloppiness and laziness flowed into the loss to the pies
• very tight win vs an average Melbourne.
• ****ing destroyed by sydney
• then we had our best patch. It lasted 4 (and a half) weeks. Gold coast, port, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond.
• back to utter shit vs gws.

I don't really see where we were ever humming outside of maybe a month... maybe...

 

[Stamos]

No we weren't. We were scraping through wins questionably. We hummed for 1 maybe 2 rounds.

• Tight win vs an asleep Brisbane
• tight win vs an utterly shit Richmond
• Thumped an utterly shit north but let in way too many points - wasn't good nor humming.
• Tight win in Perth - good fight.
• Utterly shit performance vs adelaide
• Superstars dominate vs gws
• Embarassing initial game vs Geelong. Sloppy nonsense.
• same sloppiness and laziness flowed into the loss to the pies
• very tight win vs an average Melbourne.
• ****ing destroyed by sydney
• then we had our best patch. It lasted 4 (and a half) weeks. Gold coast, port, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond.
• back to utter shit vs gws.

I don't really see where we were ever humming outside of maybe a month... maybe...

Agree, we didn't really get it together for very long.
But also, when we really fell apart, we were still very close, often to good teams. Even when we were stinking it up.

We only got opened up properly twice before the final. Our 3rd worst result (by margin) in the H&A was 14 points.

 

[Blue By Blood]

No coach is the finished product, this mainly stems from an ever changing list and the game itself

For me, it's about how one adapts, which is a challenge for all coaches

This is correct, every coach has pros and cons. But the trouble with this is that Voss has minimal time left to work it out while we are in the window.. and he seems to repeatedly be having the same issues without learning IMO. I’m talking selections, structures, slow play down the line etc. Let’s hope he’s just a slow learner and next year clicks.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Footy IQ part hits the nail on the head.

How about Saad making a run from D50 with a man right on his tail.

Our player STILL elects to handball to Saad as he runs by with said opposition putting a huge amount of pressure on the disposal.

This was from the Saints game I'm quite sure - Motlop purposefully tackling a Saints player over the goal line instead of trying to keep him inside the line of play.

Majority of our players, when they have possession, are very poor at evading 1 opposition player. A side step or small change of direction to enable a pass to a free teammate are few and far between. Instead our first instincts is to bang it on the boot.

The issue in the first half was the fumbling and as a result, the panicking which lead to handballs to a Saad under pressure.

We also got massacred in the air. At one stage I yelled at the TV - "Any chance we can take a mark !!"


Coaching is an issue as off the back of that comes this mental fragility we have.

 

[Arr0w]

This is correct, every coach has pros and cons. But the trouble with this is that Voss has minimal time left to work it out while we are in the window.. and he seems to repeatedly be having the same issues without learning IMO. I’m talking selections, structures, slow play down the line etc. Let’s hope he’s just a slow learner and next year clicks.

There are many coaches you could label slow learners, Ross surely would fall under that category given he has not been part of the ultimate prize, so too Hinkley.

If you take the 1st half of last year, compared to the 2nd half, thats is coming up to speed quickly, as most impactful changes would happen over the off season. This year, at this stage, we can only guess what happened to cause such as fall off the cliff in form, but no doubt changes will be needed, across all aspects. Player positions, roles, gameplan, tactics, etc

Modern game, progression is not linear, we have seen every side go through swings in form. Ours happened at the wrong time and we couldn't recover

If we struggle to improve next year, or miss the 8, Voss is in trouble, it's the nature of the industry

 

[NYCFC]

Sadly I don’t think Vossy is sharp enough to do the kind of learning/adaptation we all want (need) him to do.

I think what we’re seeing is what we’re going to continue to get.

It sounds overly simplistic, but if the raw material isn’t there, not a lot you can do.

Think you have to have a quick, analytical and somewhat creative mind to be an elite coach at this level.

Vossy has some good attributes. But for me, he’s lacking a very key one.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Vossy's underlings may be the dregs of who was left in 2021 but they're all his picks. What would any senior head or rising star gain from coming to work under him?

If you were a good tactical assistant, you would learn great man management and motivation under Voss.If you were an ex senior coach with no more prospects, you get to stay in AFL Football, if that is your passion-(Adam Simpson).

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Vossy's underlings may be the dregs of who was left in 2021 but they're all his picks. What would any senior head or rising star gain from coming to work under him?

It's the head coach who attracts the quality of assistant coaches.

Pretty sure we would have approached other candidates than Hammill, Clarke, Russell etc...love to know who declined our offer, and why?

 

[Michael Jezz]

There are many coaches you could label slow learners, Ross surely would fall under that category given he has not been part of the ultimate prize, so too Hinkley.

If you take the 1st half of last year, compared to the 2nd half, thats is coming up to speed quickly, as most impactful changes would happen over the off season. This year, at this stage, we can only guess what happened to cause such as fall off the cliff in form, but no doubt changes will be needed, across all aspects. Player positions, roles, gameplan, tactics, etc

Modern game, progression is not linear, we have seen every side go through swings in form. Ours happened at the wrong time and we couldn't recover

If we struggle to improve next year, or miss the 8, Voss is in trouble, it's the nature of the industry

Voss falls down by relying only on contest and pressure. The evidence suggests contest and pressure is a given but without overlap run, chaos ball etc success can not be sustained in modern AFL. The contest and pressure brand alone is too taxing and relies on the team being up every week. The question is does Voss have the players on the list to play modern run and carry football? I don't think he does. The solution is the Sayers and Cook need to allow Voss and the recruiting department to take a step back and bring in the right players and augment the game plan. Unfortunately, that will take a season or 2 of stagnation or regression. However, if the club was upfront about it, I think the supporters would accept it.
Carlton in its pursuit of instant success has always struggled to be honest with itself

 

[Lukeblueboy]

There are many coaches you could label slow learners, Ross surely would fall under that category given he has not been part of the ultimate prize, so too Hinkley.

If you take the 1st half of last year, compared to the 2nd half, thats is coming up to speed quickly, as most impactful changes would happen over the off season. This year, at this stage, we can only guess what happened to cause such as fall off the cliff in form, but no doubt changes will be needed, across all aspects. Player positions, roles, gameplan, tactics, etc

Modern game, progression is not linear, we have seen every side go through swings in form. Ours happened at the wrong time and we couldn't recover

If we struggle to improve next year, or miss the 8, Voss is in trouble, it's the nature of the industry

Agree mate. He needs to address the relevant issues right now/this off season.
If he doesn’t, then it may not end to well for him by this time next year imo

But, I’m staying glass half full for the moment and hopefully he can somewhat identify what needs to be sorted and get that done.

Really really by the end of next year, don’t want be a club in disarray again with another coach in the gun. Last thing we need.

 

[TENACIOUS]

With Cook and Sayers (Voss’s greatest allies) both moving on at the end of 2025.

Voss will be feeling the heat, non top 4 finish or a non prelim/grand final, he’ll be on the chopping block.

 

[bmaurizio]

Voss hasn't convinced me yet, just doesn't inspire tactically and our game plan is stagnant.
Our list needs refreshing desperately too. Hope that's sunk in now.
Our season should have ended last week, but we sneaked into finals.
At least now the bitterness and brutal reality is bared and not camouflaged, reckon a shape up has began, already Russell been showed the door, now lets hope its a little more comprehensive.

 

[Faucon Bleu]

Was never convinced by Voss, we made a big mistake hiring him but as usual Carlton and the messiah complex got him through the door, we continue to make these mistakes and continue to destroy our club. I for one am not going to buy membership again, couldn't afford it this year but somehow my heart won out and I forked out the cash. I am over the same shit for the last 29 years, we never learn if it's not drafting mistakes its coaching mistakes our club is rotten.

 

[Arr0w]

Voss falls down by relying only on contest and pressure.

Every side relies on pressure, the pointy end sides are the best performers

The evidence suggests contest and pressure is a given but without overlap run, chaos ball etc success can not be sustained in modern AFL.

There is no blueprint as to the "perfect" gameplan, you adapt it the resources available

The contest and pressure brand alone is too taxing and relies on the team being up every week.

Every side that is at the pointy end of the pressure game, thats why we have seen every side have fluctuation in form. No side is able to sustain it, but you do need better management in loads, HP and gameday

The question is does Voss have the players on the list to play modern run and carry football? I don't think he does.

I think this has been identified by the masses and surely by the club, as there will be tough calls made on some players, as well as those already struggling

The solution is the Sayers and Williams need to allow Voss and the recruiting department to take a step back and bring in the right players and augment the game plan. Unfortunately, that will take a season or 2 of stagnation or regression.

You can address the injury prone and gain a need with the same replacement

However, if the club was upfront about it, I think the supporters would accept it.

I get that a section of the supporter base, want to hear from the club, but I don't need words, I will see their actions

Carlton in its pursuit of instant success has always struggled to be honest with itself

It has in the past, both club and supporters have wanted instant success or a turnaround in fortunes quickly, its a certain arrogance that hasn't helped.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

His lack of creativity concerns me.
We’re crying out for some breakaway speed in our midfield group, why not try Saad in there?
I think he could cause some havoc at centre bounces.
I like the Kemp move forward, hope they persist with it, but many on here had been calling for it all season.

 

[bigblueboy]

With Cook and Sayers (Voss’s greatest allies) both moving on at the end of 2025.

Voss will be feeling the heat, non top 4 finish or a non prelim/grand final, he’ll be on the chopping block.

Voss was a Sayers appointment. Cook doesn't have the same connection, has been supportive however.
Are you ever really safe as Carlton coach? History would tend to say not.
Voss has a contract until end of 2026, in itself a consideration.

 

[slashin_velvet]

His lack of creativity concerns me.
We’re crying out for some breakaway speed in our midfield group, why not try Saad in there?
I think he could cause some havoc at centre bounces.
I like the Kemp move forward, hope they persist with it, but many on here had been calling for it all season.

I'm less concerned about his ability to be creative - the problem is that his creativity has only been evident when our hand was forced:

• Kemp to forward line
• Williams to forward line
• O.Hollands to HBF
• Cincotta tagging role (at the time no-one in the league was aggressively tagging)

Match committee is a bit too conservative, and have made crap calls all year.

 

[Blueballs38]

I’m wary now to Voss, big time. King as Sub??? Seriously. TBF he does need a good run with injuries to be judged fairly.

 

[Coops93]

I don't want to come in and be one of those sakc the cocha!! types, but there's been one or two flags for me that remind me of his time in Brisbane. None of the superficial "Crazy Vossy" type nonsese, but some of the tactical stuff.

In Brisbane he made a habit of selecting veterans over youth 90% of the time. Not to say he didn't do it, but he very, very clearly favoured the vets. He's done that a bit with us as well - vets in ahead of kids most of the time, even Fantasia picked off the rubbish heap! That concerns me a bit, it's clear the senior bodies weren't getting the job done, the kids came in and showed a bit, then at the first opportunity they were out again.

He has some clear tactical limitations. I think Voss is very much the leader, motivator, run through a wall type coach, which is excellent if surrounded by the right people. I don't think Voss is, or if he is, they aren't embraced enough to have their actions placed on field. If that's the case someone needs work out with Voss a way for him to better embrace others' ideas.

My most worrying thought trail is how he had an early impact in Brisbane, they spiked, and then quickly went back down. The timeline is longer for us by a year or so, but similar happened - we showed improvement, then had a big spike, and have fallen very quickly. Sure, circumstances conspired against us this season so I'm saying it's a big red flag, it's just a watch for me. Not saying it's a repeat, but purely on paper, it looks like it.

He'd want to have a good off-season by making the right additions and then, just as importantly, making the right team selections next year. It's not just him, it's the whole staff, but his head is the highest.

 

[slashin_velvet]

I’m wary now to Voss, big time. King as Sub??? Seriously. TBF he does need a good run with injuries to be judged fairly.

Justification in the post match was that he wasnt fit enough to run out the game....SO HE SHOULDNT HAVE PLAYED AT ALL

 

[jj1978]

Vossy's underlings may be the dregs of who was left in 2021 but they're all his picks. What would any senior head or rising star gain from coming to work under him?

They’d get to work? Find out a bit about themselves? Realise they’re not the finished product or best version of themselves? Heaps of benefit working under Voss, just got to look for the green shoots.

 

[jj1978]

Voss was a Sayers appointment. Cook doesn't have the same connection, has been supportive however.
Are you ever really safe as Carlton coach? History would tend to say not.
Voss has a contract until end of 2026, in itself a consideration.

Yep. Feel strongly Voss is only supported under the premise of “stability” eventually if it becomes evident he’s not a good enough coach someone will have to pull the trigger.

 

[Warsaw]

I don’t need Voss to be a master tactician. That wasn’t what he was recruited for.

But the season was over when a 40pt lead against GWS was virtually erased in a quarter. And the half time response was for GWS to kick 7 goals to our 1.

If he’s calling as a leader is to be the man-manager, motivator type, then moments like that or not registering a point till 5 mins left in the 2nd quarter in an elimination final, are pretty damning.

He’ll still be coach next year but I think we’ll find out pretty quickly if he’s been humbled at all by the past couple of months and prepared to be innovative or if he’s going to be reliant on the status quo to get things done.

 

[JustOneTime]

We're a strong stoppage side that lets our tackles slip while the sides we look to as strong peers don't. A weird conundrum for a side whose strength is stoppage based.

Who is accountable for this weak tackling profile in 2024.