Ratts is at Hawthorn this season, he'd be just continuing on.
Ah that sucks about Simmo. Seems everytime we ask something like this happens. Clarkson was the same, we were up for a coach and he was taking a year off.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Michael Voss
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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Ah that sucks about Simmo. Seems everytime we ask something like this happens. Clarkson was the same, we were up for a coach and he was taking a year off.
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
I don't think it's a coincidence.
If we were an attractive place for coaches to work, they would cancel their sabbaticals.
Yes our timing of recent years when it's been time to find a coach has left us little in the well.
After Mick it was Bolton, Barker with Voss running in 3rd.
After Bolton it was Teague with Voss interviewed as well.
After Teague it was Voss and Kingsly
Also Voss was sought after post Pagan's sacking, so it's just almost seemed inevitable he'd end up our coach.
We'd have to find someone who's defnitely okay taking a back seat, if you look at recent senior prospects now who could it be??
Buckley, Dew, Watters, Richardson, Neeld, Thompson, Hird, Rutten...
Buckley I don't think would take the 2IC role.. but if we got him in, I think it might change our dynamic significantly. Nothing like a bit of pressure on our coaching unit to re-think and push themselves.
If I could make 1 change, I'd have Power as part of the assistants
You’d have to think that we could utilise his abilities in a better way than having him VFL coach
If we are to succeed, we must poor better resources at the VFL program. We must have both the 1s and 2s playing finals to have a serious tilt at a flag..
I suggest you watch Kingsley’s press conference. He puts the blame on the players. It might be harsh but when you cough up leads like GWS did then you’ve got to accept it.
Did he say they're going to get to work and seek to find the best version of themselves?
I think Voss is still so gun shy after his days at Brisbane that he's actually cautious about singling out publicly player efforts in particular when it's due to lack of discipline, effort or straying from team plans. Sometimes it's okay to do so indirectly (e.g. "they know whom I'm talking about here"), but can't keep coddling them like children... hence why Mitchell should've come out and said Ginni brought it on himself somewhat and kept it at that instead of pandering and babying him publicly which was cringe.
- Thread starter
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Voss will be in his 4th year as coach next year.
If we get a repeat of this season next year, wouldn’t surprise me to see a new coach like Simpson come in.
Interesting...
Victorian lockdown ended 21 October 2021.
Appointed coach 21 September 2021.
Covid long over, now not an excuse for seeking greater learnings and development.
Examples just from 2023...
Kingsley to US [2022 & 2023]
GWS assistants to PSG
Longmire, Cox, Mcveigh to US
Mitchell, Hickmont to UK
Clarkson, Simpson, Longmuir, Nicks
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Add to this...
GWS finished top4.
Something Carlton hasn't achieved in 20plus years....
That gives Kingsley massive credits in the bank
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Kingsley inherited a pretty decent team, and their recruiting has been very good
Will be interesting how both sides progress in 2025
Will be interesting how both sides progress in 2025
I roll my eyes whenever I see people say "Voss needs tactical know-how assistants surrounding him", "Voss is a motivator but weak tactically", etc. He's the head coach ffs, he should have some tactical nous. If he doesn't have that, then why is he coaching?
Can understand delegating to ease the workload, but ultimately, he makes the decisions on game-day. He's been in the system for over a decade and you are telling me he's still unable to adjust, make the right calls, etc? If he is weak tactically on game-day, why? Has he not improved? Is he incapable of learning new things?
It's just an excuse.
Can understand delegating to ease the workload, but ultimately, he makes the decisions on game-day. He's been in the system for over a decade and you are telling me he's still unable to adjust, make the right calls, etc? If he is weak tactically on game-day, why? Has he not improved? Is he incapable of learning new things?
It's just an excuse.
JJBagger
Club Legend
- Sep 6, 2022
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- Carlton
Damien Hardwick and Adam Simpson weren’t tactically smart coaches, they were both in the Voss mould. They had A-grade tactical assistants around them to make them better in that department
Or maybe they learned, tweaked a few things and became tactically better?
Who were their assistants and what made them better tactically? How do you know it was the assistants coming up with new changes/tactics and not Hardwick/Simpson themselves?
JJBagger
Club Legend
- Sep 6, 2022
- 1,145
- 3,109
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Cause the big criticism of Hardwick was his tactical side. Brought in Caracella, McRae, Leppitsch, and later Kingsley, to help with that side. Simpsons same thing with Sam Mitchell, Adrian Hickmott and Jaymie Graham. Will Schofield also often refers to Simpson as a “motivator” and “a leader”, rather than a master tactician
The role of senior coach is much different to head coach.
Senior coach is a general manager. Keeps the peace and discipline of the group and drives them. Has an input into tactics but doesn't have to be a genius decision maker and tactician.
Voss is that senior coach person. But he is not a great decision maker or tactician.
Voss needs three things to succeeded as a coach at Carlton.
1. The players. He doesn't have them and that is part the fault of his coaching group. They needed to be advising list management about what they wanted and to get that right. The main issue has been our onball group. When the rule changes came, those teams who were quick to act and got it right have gone ahead in leaps and bounds. Those who didn't, us have gone backwards. The advice to go for faster, more agile mids who run down, tackle and run both ways at pace needed to be the first things reiterated to our list management from coaching when Voss came in. Again this could have been a lot to do with who he has around him, why leave it up to one guy to figure this out? We don't have the players, we need to get that done.
2. Assistants. It seems all the teams who have had a sustained run at success and won multiple flags are loaded with well regarded assistants. It comes from a top notch footy boss and that comes from a top notch CEO. Last time we were any good we had a good group under David Parkin. New fresh minds who would go on to be successful under an old enforcer.
3. He needs to let go and trust more. Trust his playing group more. You can tell there are players who he just does not trust. He was forced to play youth this year and when he did they did well. He is very reluctant when it comes to who he throws into the middle. Rather run our onball group into the ground or let them get smashed than to try something creative. Last two finals series he has dropped well performing players for names and favorites. He is afraid of playing lighter bodies and more outside players. That's why we keep falling back into becoming slow all the time.
He also needs to trust his assistants more. I get the feeling Voss is probably stubborn. How can we keep making tactical and selection mistakes with so many coaches there? Who's making the mistakes? If we surround Voss with good tactical people and decision makers, will it go to waste? Will he listen?
In terms of good assistant coaches. Brett Ratten, Adam Simpson have been mentioned but I would also be enquiring about Brendan Bolton and just seeing if he would be willing to return. There are plenty of well regarded coaches out there. Justin Leppitsch for example.
It just seems like Geelong and Collingwood get the best. Richmond over the last few years as well and we get what is left over. We just seem to get what's left on the scrapheap every time when it comes to assistants.
Senior coach is a general manager. Keeps the peace and discipline of the group and drives them. Has an input into tactics but doesn't have to be a genius decision maker and tactician.
Voss is that senior coach person. But he is not a great decision maker or tactician.
Voss needs three things to succeeded as a coach at Carlton.
1. The players. He doesn't have them and that is part the fault of his coaching group. They needed to be advising list management about what they wanted and to get that right. The main issue has been our onball group. When the rule changes came, those teams who were quick to act and got it right have gone ahead in leaps and bounds. Those who didn't, us have gone backwards. The advice to go for faster, more agile mids who run down, tackle and run both ways at pace needed to be the first things reiterated to our list management from coaching when Voss came in. Again this could have been a lot to do with who he has around him, why leave it up to one guy to figure this out? We don't have the players, we need to get that done.
2. Assistants. It seems all the teams who have had a sustained run at success and won multiple flags are loaded with well regarded assistants. It comes from a top notch footy boss and that comes from a top notch CEO. Last time we were any good we had a good group under David Parkin. New fresh minds who would go on to be successful under an old enforcer.
3. He needs to let go and trust more. Trust his playing group more. You can tell there are players who he just does not trust. He was forced to play youth this year and when he did they did well. He is very reluctant when it comes to who he throws into the middle. Rather run our onball group into the ground or let them get smashed than to try something creative. Last two finals series he has dropped well performing players for names and favorites. He is afraid of playing lighter bodies and more outside players. That's why we keep falling back into becoming slow all the time.
He also needs to trust his assistants more. I get the feeling Voss is probably stubborn. How can we keep making tactical and selection mistakes with so many coaches there? Who's making the mistakes? If we surround Voss with good tactical people and decision makers, will it go to waste? Will he listen?
In terms of good assistant coaches. Brett Ratten, Adam Simpson have been mentioned but I would also be enquiring about Brendan Bolton and just seeing if he would be willing to return. There are plenty of well regarded coaches out there. Justin Leppitsch for example.
It just seems like Geelong and Collingwood get the best. Richmond over the last few years as well and we get what is left over. We just seem to get what's left on the scrapheap every time when it comes to assistants.
I have mentioned this before, I think you are right. When good well sort after football people ask their manager where's a good place to work/play, we aren't up there. They all go to Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn, Collingwood and lately Richmond.
You really do reap what you sow. The salary cap saga left a lasting stain that has lasted decades. The decades of horrible performances has left a stain that still remains. Sacking coach after coach after coach has also left a stain that is embedded into us.
We aren't a club you go to as a coach to achieve success and keep long term employment. That is what potential coaches and managers of these people would see. You come to us if the money is super good or if the tip escallion of teams don't have a position.
For players it's the same. We haven't proven we can offer sustained success and premierships. Those things aren't associated with us like other clubs.
It's going to take many years of at least mediocre success, consistently making finals or winning one to prove to the players of the competition that we have changes and we are a place you can come to where you will likely win a flag. It's going to take many years of loyalty to our current coach to prove we are a good place to be employed as a coach.
I don't think we would like to hear what player/coaching managers thing of us or have to say about us to their clients.
I am hoping we start to see some changes. I think making finals, despite our complete failure was a good thing this year. I think sticking fat with our coach and having Cook there is a good thing this year.
I think Cook and Sayers leaving may make potential club employees hesitant.
Yep, don't expect him to be a grand chess master. But seriously head coach should have a high-medium level grasp on what the tactics and direction of the team are and be guiding that course (again from a certain level of control).
Suggesting he doesn't?
The questions were around why did it happen. This is where he said his players failed under pressure. Basically the oppo scored and we forgot to footy.
And is this his way of saying we’re going to find a better version of ourselves?
“That'll be one of the things that we need to work on across the summer in preparation for next season, is how to address those moments, how to deal with them better."
I think coaches revert to form and say the same thing most of the time. Might say it differently but it ends up with the same meaning.
I watched Fagan’s press conference as well. When things were going badly during the game he was asked why he didn’t make moves. His response was he had faith in his players that they’ll get it right. Lucky they won the game.
