Opinion Mick Malthouse

[morgoth]

Yes shows the whole thing was about MMs ego. He wanted to do a Howard & Costello and back out of a pre arranged deal to step down, but didnt get the backing of Buckley and Eddie.

Its also concerning that Bucks felt he needed to clear the decks of anyone who was stained by Malthouse and in his camp.. Will our senior players who like MM revolt against the new coach like they seemed to at Collingwood.

Different circumstances, in most cases our players had only every had one coach a lot of them were developed off the rookie list by him so felt loyal.

The other problem we had was MM kept in touch with players after they left and constantly sought to white ant Bucks. Hence why we refused to trade guys like Heath Shaw to you (MM was into him big time). The worst of the lot though was Daisy Thomas. In Micks book he mentioned how a player approached him in 2011 about getting a bunch of players together to tell the board they did not want Mick to go. He refused but its 90% that it was Thomas. Thomas then went on to be a little shit and was the biggest problem at the club, hence why we did not match your offer (plus his ankle). As such he may be a problem if Mick gets arsed at the end of the year or before. He is already starting to defend him in the media.

Given his nature MM's attack on your board and Trigg today is just the beginning, he will not stop, he was prepared to derail a premiership run in 2011 to attack the club on the footy show, its all about him. The sad part is he has been a very good coach (I think the game may have passed him by now tactically) but he has always been a difficult person to like as he comes across as a self interested, arrogant arseh*le.

I wish you luck when it comes to him as I have been there and lived through his shit.

 

[Keyza]

Different circumstances, in most cases our players had only every had one coach a lot of them were developed off the rookie list by him so felt loyal.

The other problem we had was MM kept in touch with players after they left and constantly sought to white ant Bucks. Hence why we refused to trade guys like Heath Shaw to you (MM was into him big time). The worst of the lot though was Daisy Thomas. In Micks book he mentioned how a player approached him in 2011 about getting a bunch of players together to tell the board they did not want Mick to go. He refused but its 90% that it was Thomas. Thomas then went on to be a little shit and was the biggest problem at the club, hence why we did not match your offer (plus his ankle). As such he may be a problem if Mick gets arsed at the end of the year or before. He is already starting to defend him in the media.

Given his nature MM's attack on your board and Trigg today is just the beginning, he will not stop, he was prepared to derail a premiership run in 2011 to attack the club on the footy show, its all about him. The sad part is he has been a very good coach (I think the game may have passed him by now tactically) but he has always been a difficult person to like as he comes across as a self interested, arrogant arseh*le.

I wish you luck when it comes to him as I have been there and lived through his shit.

Sadly for us I think you are spot on. MM is now looking after himself.
His attack on the board today was the final straw as far as I am concerned. There is no way he will be at the club next year, and he knows this.
Such a terrible state we are in at the moment.
I have been a member since 1976 and am just about over the whole thing. I have no love of footy right now and it an effort to go each week.

 

[morgoth]

Sadly for us I think you are spot on. MM is now looking after himself.
His attack on the board today was the final straw as far as I am concerned. There is no way he will be at the club next year, and he knows this.
Such a terrible state we are in at the moment.
I have been a member since 1976 and am just about over the whole thing. I have no love of footy right now and it an effort to go each week.

Been there, best thing is to cut the losses and move on re the list, coach etc. Once you start bringing in kids you will get interested again and if they start to come good it is a very exciting time. I still remember in 2009 watching our seconds win the flag with Reid, Dawes, Brown and co all playing key roles and knew we had some good ones ready to go in 2010. Its extremely satisfying when it happens as you go along for the ride.

Your just in the twilight zone right now and you will get through it as long as the club sticks to its plan, drafts well and has a little bit of luck.

 

[gbatman]

Yep. The football world has been banging on about our delusions re this list for years, but we chose to ignore them. It's finally come home to roost and many want to take the coach, board and powerbrokers down because of it. Maybe we need to listen more and live more outside the navy bubble.

Maybe, outside the inner bubble of football clubs gets as much right as it does wrong. The media are blood thirsty, they'd see prominent club people sacked every day if they could. I think we need to at least model ourselves around clubs which are successful and take particular notice of how they behaved during their rebuilding/building phase rather than how they go about things in their current state of success.

I've seen other coaches go through the same thing that our coach is going through now. I can still remember Chocko being labelled a choker, this that and the other before finally nailing a flag. I remember the media getting stuck into Thompson when he was at geelong, they were going on about his team was underperforming, he was a coach under pressure by the media. Hawthorn won in '08 then fell off the planet, people were banging on about how they won the flag then didn't make the 8, they started a rebuild that's why. I think Malthouse was being labelled past it around 2004/05 when Collingwood became a bottom side.

I just wonder if we will be the club who cracks or the one who has a sensible and level head.

 

[Keyza]

Been there, best thing is to cut the losses and move on re the list, coach etc. Once you start bringing in kids you will get interested again and if they start to come good it is a very exciting time. I still remember in 2009 watching our seconds win the flag with Reid, Dawes, Brown and co all playing key roles and knew we had some good ones ready to go in 2010. Its extremely satisfying when it happens as you go along for the ride.

Your just in the twilight zone right now and you will get through it as long as the club sticks to its plan, drafts well and has a little bit of luck.

Cheers. I know you guys went through some tough times.
We have been struggling for most of the last 15 years, except for a few half decent years.
Just so bloody frustrating as most of us ordinary supporters could see this coming and could see how terrible our trading and drafting has been for the last 6-7 years. We could see it yet the club couldnt.
There is just a sense of hopelessness right now.

 

[morgoth]

Cheers. I know you guys went through some tough times.
We have been struggling for most of the last 15 years, except for a few half decent years.
Just so bloody frustrating as most of us ordinary supporters could see this coming and could see how terrible our trading and drafting has been for the last 6-7 years. We could see it yet the club couldnt.
There is just a sense of hopelessness right now.

Could be worse you could be Essendon, they are in deep, deep shit. I think we can all agree on that!

We had 10 years where MM refused to get a decent ruckman, only when we put the gun to his head did he get Jolly. We as supporters often see things that for whatever reason the club does not.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Different circumstances, in most cases our players had only every had one coach a lot of them were developed off the rookie list by him so felt loyal.

The other problem we had was MM kept in touch with players after they left and constantly sought to white ant Bucks. Hence why we refused to trade guys like Heath Shaw to you (MM was into him big time). The worst of the lot though was Daisy Thomas. In Micks book he mentioned how a player approached him in 2011 about getting a bunch of players together to tell the board they did not want Mick to go. He refused but its 90% that it was Thomas. Thomas then went on to be a little shit and was the biggest problem at the club, hence why we did not match your offer (plus his ankle). As such he may be a problem if Mick gets arsed at the end of the year or before. He is already starting to defend him in the media.

Given his nature MM's attack on your board and Trigg today is just the beginning, he will not stop, he was prepared to derail a premiership run in 2011 to attack the club on the footy show, its all about him. The sad part is he has been a very good coach (I think the game may have passed him by now tactically) but he has always been a difficult person to like as he comes across as a self interested, arrogant arseh*le.

I wish you luck when it comes to him as I have been there and lived through his shit.

My deepest sympathies that you had to live through and endure such a traumatic event (the wrath of Malthouse)

I will never understand why people think its okay to label/treat a 30 year, triple premiership coach like some kind of convicted criminal, the ingratitude and bitterness from Collingwood fans is especially hard to stomach, given he is only your 2nd premiership coach since the end of world war two.

And your slanderous comments about Daisy (probably your second best player in the premiership season) is just beyond the pail.
What gives you the right to call someone who gave your club great service, a little shit ??

I can't speak for anyone else for any other poster on this board, but your tirades against Mick and Daisy aren't welcome, and yes whilst they haven't lived up to expectations, I will defend them to the hilt, from barbs from Collingwood Ingrates.

 

[Red Bull]

My deepest sympathies that you had to live through and endure such a traumatic event (the wrath of Malthouse)

I will never understand why people think its okay to label/treat a 30 year, triple premiership coach like some kind of convicted criminal, the ingratitude and bitterness from Collingwood fans is especially hard to stomach, given he is only your 2nd premiership coach since the end of world war two.

And your slanderous comments about Daisy (probably your second best player in the premiership season) is just beyond the pail.
What gives you the right to call someone who gave your club great service, a little shit ??

I can't speak for anyone else for any other poster on this board, but your tirades against Mick and Daisy aren't welcome, and yes whilst they haven't lived up to expectations, I will defend them to the hilt, from barbs from Collingwood Ingrates.

Are you ok mate ?

 

[morgoth]

My deepest sympathies that you had to live through and endure such a traumatic event (the wrath of Malthouse)

I will never understand why people think its okay to label/treat a 30 year, triple premiership coach like some kind of convicted criminal, the ingratitude and bitterness from Collingwood fans is especially hard to stomach, given he is only your 2nd premiership coach since the end of world war two.

And your slanderous comments about Daisy (probably your second best player in the premiership season) is just beyond the pail.
What gives you the right to call someone who gave your club great service, a little shit ??

I can't speak for anyone else for any other poster on this board, but your tirades against Mick and Daisy aren't welcome, and yes whilst they haven't lived up to expectations, I will defend them to the hilt, from barbs from Collingwood Ingrates.

You obviously missed the bit where I said he was a very good coach but a very difficult person to like.

Do you like the way he is conducting himself at the moment? Do you think it is in the best interest of your club, its players, it supporters?

As for Thomas, I don't care if players leave for money, they have a limited life span and need to cash in, but there is no need to carry on like he did on the way out. He played a lot of games and caused a lot of problems. How you leave a job is often how you are remembered, Thomas left extremely badly. You may be about to find out where his loyalties lie.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Are you ok mate ?

All good, just don't see why people feel the need to denigrate poor Mick on a personal level, such as calling him arrogant, unlikeable etc..

Saying Mick was prepared to derail the 2011 premiership campaign of Collingwood out of some petty vendetta is an outrageous slur, not based in any fact or substance.

Look I am very happy for MM to move on at end of the season, its the level of person abuse and diatribe directed at Mick, which is deeply affecting his family, especially his ailing wife Nanette, whom now cannot bear to do things in public with Mick, like go to the movies or restaurant because fear of her husband being heckled.

I don't care how much money is being paid to Mick, if the quality of his and Nanette's personal lives are being affected by snipers in the media or horrible radio talkback callers, then yes, I am going to stick up for the man.

There is absolutely no excuse for some of the personal sledges directed at MM on this forum (senile, old coot, con artist/shyster etc)

And on today's presser, I found it refreshing, much prefer brutal honest/harsh reality, to Mick putting on a brave face and sugar coating what's going on.

Can't help but feel Mick's too honest for his own good, really.

 

[thylacine60]

DVB struggles with the integrity-free aspects of this cursed sport that beguiles and bewitches.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

You obviously missed the bit where I said he was a very good coach but a very difficult person to like.

Do you like the way he is conducting himself at the moment? Do you think it is in the best interest of your club, its players, it supporters?

As for Thomas, I don't care if players leave for money, they have a limited life span and need to cash in, but there is no need to carry on like he did on the way out. He played a lot of games and caused a lot of problems. How you leave a job is often how you are remembered, Thomas left extremely badly. You may be about to find out where his loyalties lie.

I think under the circumstances, Mick can be forgiven for acting a bit brusque, especially when you consider how all the pressure is affecting his family.

Mick's a passionate man who wears his heart on his sleeve (I'm like that myself) and even if he is coaching poorly (which he is to be honest) there is a right way and a wrong way to critique his performance (certainly not judging him by his age or personality)

I think Mick's time at the club is up at season's end, hiring him was a big blunder by our previous administration, but I ain't going to throw him under the bus, I actually harbour no grudge against Denis Pagan either, another great coach and decent man, victim of a dysfunctional footy club

And I am not interested in the so called 'dirt' and gossip you have about Daisy, I would read rags like Woman's Day if I wanted to hear stuff like that, I don't know Daisy personally but he strikes me as a solid citizen.

 

[Doro]

Maybe, outside the inner bubble of football clubs gets as much right as it does wrong. The media are blood thirsty, they'd see prominent club people sacked every day if they could. I think we need to at least model ourselves around clubs which are successful and take particular notice of how they behaved during their rebuilding/building phase rather than how they go about things in their current state of success.

I've seen other coaches go through the same thing that our coach is going through now. I can still remember Chocko being labelled a choker, this that and the other before finally nailing a flag. I remember the media getting stuck into Thompson when he was at geelong, they were going on about his team was underperforming, he was a coach under pressure by the media. Hawthorn won in '08 then fell off the planet, people were banging on about how they won the flag then didn't make the 8, they started a rebuild that's why. I think Malthouse was being labelled past it around 2004/05 when Collingwood became a bottom side.

I just wonder if we will be the club who cracks or the one who has a sensible and level head.

It's looking like we'll crack. Patience and a plan is the only way to get ourselves back where we want to go. I think we'll get the 'quick fix ' from the restless supporter base this time.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

The more I think about it the more I can't deny that although we may have never won a flag under Rattan we were a much better team.

Mick has turned us into the worst team in the comp in 3 years!!

Also how can Mick say we are short on quality players when we lose then a few days later blame the Pres and CEO for using the rebuild word for us not winning.

Mick is completely out of touch with reality!!!!

 

[Dramoth]

The more I think about it the more I can't deny that although we may have never won a flag under Rattan we were a much better team.

Mick has turned us into the worst team in the comp in 3 years!!

Also how can Mick say we are short on quality players when we lose then a few days later blame the Pres and CEO for using the rebuild word for us not winning.

Mick is completely out of touch with reality!!!!

Are you passmark in disguise?

 

[Peacock]

And on today's presser, I found it refreshing, much prefer brutal honest/harsh reality, to Mick putting on a brave face and sugar coating what's going on.

Can't help but feel Mick's too honest for his own good, really.

ah yeah, Mick is so honest. If he was so honest he would have said that he was a MASSIVE supporter of coming out after round 2 and saying they were rebuilding.
He thought it would cut him a lot of slack and be the best way for him to get his contract renewed.
He's now trying to use this as an excuse for the teams crap performance rather than taking responsibility.

After we sack him, you can imagine how much he's going to run his mouth, won't be able to help himself.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Yes, not disputing Ratts got screwed by injuries, but i dispute the insinuation that Mick 'white-anted' Ratten for the job, I believe strongly that club was always going to replace Ratten, even if Malthouse wasn't available (if not Mick, then probably Bomber Thompson would have taken over)

Not denying that hiring Malthouse was a big mistake by the club (as was sacking Ratten) but I don't think it is fair for Malthouse to take the fall for Ratts sacking, a few petty board members, heavily influenced by GAMBLOR (aka The Pokies King) .

I should point out that I am led to believe that Sticks was very much against sacking his good mate Ratts, but I suspect he was just a figurehead chairman of the club, who likely wielded little power in the boardroom.

Kernahan is a club legend unfairly tainted by the Ratten sacking IMO.

Yeah I agree with you that Mick had zero to do with Ratten's sacking, but Ratten I believe had the support of the players. I maintain that in 2011, Ratten had you guys 4 points off a Grand Final berth. I say Grand Final because your record against Geelong was pretty good and there's every chance you could have slipped through to play us in the Grand Final that year. But if we take the fantasy away, he had you 4 points off a second final with the same list Malthouse took over.

In 2012, you had a LOT of injuries and finished 10th(?) and then next year Mick had no injuries and finished in the same spot with the same list. Malthouse was a mistake plain and simple.

 

[ESKIE]

Maybe, outside the inner bubble of football clubs gets as much right as it does wrong. The media are blood thirsty, they'd see prominent club people sacked every day if they could. I think we need to at least model ourselves around clubs which are successful and take particular notice of how they behaved during their rebuilding/building phase rather than how they go about things in their current state of success.

I've seen other coaches go through the same thing that our coach is going through now. I can still remember Chocko being labelled a choker, this that and the other before finally nailing a flag. I remember the media getting stuck into Thompson when he was at geelong, they were going on about his team was underperforming, he was a coach under pressure by the media. Hawthorn won in '08 then fell off the planet, people were banging on about how they won the flag then didn't make the 8, they started a rebuild that's why. I think Malthouse was being labelled past it around 2004/05 when Collingwood became a bottom side.

I just wonder if we will be the club who cracks or the one who has a sensible and level head.

I agree batman, we need to hold firm and not jump at shadows, the media blow this out of proportion as well, Melbourne where thrashed last week, not much in the media about that, we sell papers

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Yeah I agree with you that Mick had zero to do with Ratten's sacking, but Ratten I believe had the support of the players. I maintain that in 2011, Ratten had you guys 4 points off a Grand Final berth. I say Grand Final because your record against Geelong was pretty good and there's every chance you could have slipped through to play us in the Grand Final that year. But if we take the fantasy away, he had you 4 points off a second final with the same list Malthouse took over.

In 2012, you had a LOT of injuries and finished 10th(?) and then next year Mick had no injuries and finished in the same spot with the same list. Malthouse was a mistake plain and simple.

We were actually a goal short of making a preliminary final, not a GF, but I reckon we were very little chance to win the PF in hindsight (well no one can say for sure)

The mistake this club made was topping up/recruiting players whom they thought could help Judd win a flag (from 2007 - 2012/13)

Go look at our trading and drafting record in that time, no team in the league got it worse and that's why the list is in such dire shape now (not Mick's fault for that)

Richmond will feel the pinch of their woeful drafting of the past 4 years in 18 months time, mark my words, they will be exactly where we are now.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Maybe, outside the inner bubble of football clubs gets as much right as it does wrong. The media are blood thirsty, they'd see prominent club people sacked every day if they could. I think we need to at least model ourselves around clubs which are successful and take particular notice of how they behaved during their rebuilding/building phase rather than how they go about things in their current state of success.

I've seen other coaches go through the same thing that our coach is going through now. I can still remember Chocko being labelled a choker, this that and the other before finally nailing a flag. I remember the media getting stuck into Thompson when he was at geelong, they were going on about his team was underperforming, he was a coach under pressure by the media. Hawthorn won in '08 then fell off the planet, people were banging on about how they won the flag then didn't make the 8, they started a rebuild that's why. I think Malthouse was being labelled past it around 2004/05 when Collingwood became a bottom side.

I just wonder if we will be the club who cracks or the one who has a sensible and level head.

I actually agree with you on this. Normally. But sometimes there ARE cases where genuine mistakes are made. I'm legitimately glad Richmond actually held onto a coach for more than 5 minutes. I am. It's a sign they're changing, the ONLY problem is, they've done so with the WRONG coach. Hardwick has had 6 years. He's heading into Malthouse territory now. No flags in a log time. Barely finals as a matter of fact.

Carlton are int he same boat. Yes, Carlton SHOULD stick to their guns when they truly believe they've made the right call. But it's pretty clear the right call wasn't made with Mick. So losses should be cut when it's clear they're only going to lead to more losses. Stevie Wonder could see why Carlton gave Mick the job and why Mick took the job. Mick's recruiting of both players and football department staff should demonstrate that quite clearly for those it isn't that clear for. That's also completely ignoring the fact that a list Ratten got to finals has now been turned into the undisputed worst side in the comp in a matter of 3 seasons. Let's not forget, Mick took over a pretty terrible list at Collingwood in 1999. We played off in a Grand Final in 2002. Is your Top 6 players right now as good as Collingwood's Top 6 in 2002? Probably not. But they're also not worst side in the AFL bad either.

Not all coaches can turn things around at all clubs. Sometimes the fit just isn't there. Football sides are a business now. Carlton aren't the off field giant they once were and this situation with Mick is going to continue to really affect the bottom line in a multitude of ways, the key being membership. So "stick by Mick" isn't that simple in 2015 as it may have been in say 2005 or so. Carlton wants to move to the MCG. To do that, they need to be able to reach and maintain 50K membership. That's simply not going to happen while Mick is coach. It's just not. For the sake of it's own future, Carlton needs to actually legitimately do it's due dilligence on a new coach to make sure they get someone who is the right fit for Carlton and stick by them through a true rebuild.

 

[Broadside]

ah yeah, Mick is so honest. If he was so honest he would have said that he was a MASSIVE supporter of coming out after round 2 and saying they were rebuilding.
He thought it would cut him a lot of slack and be the best way for him to get his contract renewed.
He's now trying to use this as an excuse for the teams crap performance rather than taking responsibility.

this is true, in a couple of press conferences I saw he was lamenting how ordinary the list was, that would do far more damage to player morale (coming from a coach) than the "rebuild" call from the President. Mick is rewriting history.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

this is true, in a couple of press conferences I saw he was lamenting how ordinary the list was, that would do far more damage to player morale (coming from a coach) than the "rebuild" call from the President. Mick is rewriting history.

Don't forget, you're talking about a man who made the entire 2011 season about himself and cost us the flag through mismanagement of injured players and just flat out terrible match day coaching. Then went on to blame Dane Swan and Chris Tarrant for the loss.

 

[Quazza]

I can't help but think Mick talking out about the "re build" was a very calculated move. He didn't even get asked about it, it was clearly something he wanted to bring up

I think it's his last roll of the dice, and he's trying to create a real "us v them" with he and the players , against the board.

"Stuff them, they want a rebuild - no, we are better than that, lets show them!"

I don't think it'll work, but that's what I think he's doing

 

[jmac70]

Sadly for us I think you are spot on. MM is now looking after himself.
His attack on the board today was the final straw as far as I am concerned. There is no way he will be at the club next year, and he knows this.
Such a terrible state we are in at the moment.
I have been a member since 1976 and am just about over the whole thing. I have no love of footy right now and it an effort to go each week.

That is a fantastic achievement. It's hard for Blues fans at the moment but the wheel will turn soon enough. IMO there is no chance now that Mick will last until the end of the year. At least once he is replaced you can get on with the task of rebuilding the club.

 

[Moody Blue]

I can't help but think Mick talking out about the "re build" was a very calculated move. He didn't even get asked about it, it was clearly something he wanted to bring up

I think it's his last roll of the dice, and he's trying to create a real "us v them" with he and the players , against the board.

Partially agree with you, but I think he was also in MM ass covering mode. What MM is not taking into account was all of his pre-season build up. All of the players were healthy, great draft selections, best pre-season ever, can't wait for Round 1 etc etc. This is standard for all clubs, but there was something about the way MM was selling it that sounded really convincing. He more a less guaranteed a finals spot. Alas, we bought a lemon.
It was all going to plan up until quarter time against Richmond. After that it just went down hill. No one was expecting the inept performances so early into the season let alone Mark LoGiudice and Stephen Trigg who were trying to talk up the season to members and sponsors. Not sure what MM wanted LoGiudice to say when he was asked for the 50th time whether the club was rebuilding. MM is now building a wall around himself and will no doubt become the victim at the end of the saga and probably even write a book. Fact is MM seriously over rated the list, his coaching and fitness team were probably not up to it and his tactics out dated and pedestrian compared to modern day coaches. Rob Wiley as an assistant coach with hindsight was probably a sign of things to come.