List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)

[Johnny Bananas]

Any chance Dodoro matches our offer? If there's anyone that would pull something like that it's him!

I would be very surprised if he didn't match. By the sounds of it our offer includes incentives, which don't count when assessing compensation, so they'll only get band 2, and I can't see Dodoro being happy with pick 20. He'll be demanding at least two firsts.

 

[xplo]

Have you Daniherred?

“Daniher-d it through the Grapevine”?

 

[X AE A12]

Joe Da Ni Hao

 

[Tassie4ever]

Re the compatibility of Daniher and Hipwood in the same forward line.

I'm reminded of the old Richie Benaud axiom: you do what the opposition least wants.

Both these blokes in approximately the same space would be a nightmare for the opposition.

 

[luthor]

Whatever Rutten's game plan is it's a long way from the problem at this point in time.

When Hird was coach, he once said words to the effect that games plans are irrelevant if there is no pressure. I'd expand on that slightly to say that it needs both a solid ball winning core and pressure without the ball. We are so bad at these aspects of the game that no plan is going to be able to cover for it though we have tried (and had some moderate success in terms of wins and losses over the period).

We've had a bottom 4 midfield for years. We have had no natural first touch contested ball winners / distributors since Jobe. The clearance numbers are inflated because our players are damaging in space and Bellchamber's ruck work was first rate. There are also a number of distortions in the contested possession number created by the category as a whole (such as a loose ball get being considered a contested possession) which mean that the stat does not tell the picture. We're like the Wallabies have been (last time I checked about 10 years ago), on the back foot without the ability to physically dictate the way a game is played.

I tend to worry more about game plans at the top end, last year it was evident the Lions didn't take enough from an opponent to be a threat (which is also why I wasn't surprised when we belted you), Geelong is clearly not able to adapt its plan to meet the intensity of finals. Beveridge is a pretty spectacular failure when it comes to maximising the talent at his disposal as are Cameron and Goodwin. There's not a lot of sophistication there, it's basically all or nothing at the coal face (which simply doesn't work at the very top end - Richmond and Hawthorn have 5 of the last 7 premiership barely focusing on clearances, for example).

Rutten's biggest problem stems from how realistic the club is prepared to be about the midfield. It's not evident to me how we become a forward 50 team if we can win the ball and use it under physical pressure. It remains to be seen whether, McGrath aside, any of these players can become high quality without the ball. There are also real problems with the running capacity of the list generally. It's abysmal. I don't see many players who are capable of the high intensity running that is required to play the Richmond style (which is manic between the arcs).

Rutten will be fine as long as we commit to a complete rebuild and I assume we have because it will be required to do what he wants (which is why there now seems to be so much smoke around Merrett though its Heppell, Parish and a beaten up Smith that are probably the bigger problems). The problem will stem from trying to get a list to implement a plan it's not capable of playing. The reason I don't think this problem is unique to Rutten is that I don't think the list is capable of playing a brand of football that holds up at all (which is what the results show).

It would be extremely unusual for Essendon to concede that it's not in contention so there is absolutely a danger that the coteries start making noises and Rutten gets sacked. I just don't think it will have anything to do with his game plan.

Thanks for your insights and opinions.

Very well thought out and articulated

 

[davemc_lions]

you say they will match as of course they want more.
I cannot see us giving a baseline to make him pick 7. As be bonuses if he makes targets.
So be either pick 20 after first round or later.

So Bombers want more
They prob want our first 2 picks and a player or two
i be happy one of our firsts and any fringe player happy to go. Be it Matho, Witho, Archie,Cox or anyone else who feeling behind.
Not sure I be happy starting 22 like Hipwood, McStay etc,
I worry it be like Fev we offer players who not happy to go.

 

[BrunoV]

Thanks for your insights and opinions.

Very well thought out and articulated

Pleasure. I have a feeling I'll be rooting for the Lions for a while. Joe is too good to not want to see him fulfill his potential.

 

[Tom14]

you say they will match as of course they want more.
I cannot see us giving a baseline to make him pick 7. As be bonuses if he makes targets.
So be either pick 20 after first round or later.

So Bombers want more
They prob want our first 2 picks and a player or two
i be happy one of our firsts and any fringe player happy to go. Be it Matho, Witho, Archie,Cox or anyone else who feeling behind.
Not sure I be happy starting 22 like Hipwood, McStay etc,
I worry it be like Fev we offer players who not happy to go.

I cannot see a scenario where we offer players who are not happy to go.

The club is in a very different scenario than in 2009 - aside from a competent administration (god Bowers was dreadful), in 2009 it was clearly the last hurrah for Brown, Black, Power finals wise, thus fuelling the desperation to find that missing piece to take us from a semi-final to a flag.

This year our core is in the middle of their prime or is young, apart from Rich, Zorks and Stef. There is no way we trade anyone with value who doesn't want to go. Could we trade a fringe player for more opportunity if they come to us and request a move? Sure.

 

[davemc_lions]

I cannot see a scenario where we offer players who are not happy to go.

I hope not a team is a team. Was the start of our bottoming out last time.
You hope we do not fall back to bad habits
Offer up people like McStay or Hipwood for a player who might not play many games.

McCarthy and Birchall we took a chance on as they where cheap so less Risk.
All this talk 2 firsts etc is too big a risk.

 

[Tom14]

I hope not a team is a team. Was the start of our bottoming out last time.
You hope we do not fall back to bad habits
Offer up people like McStay or Hipwood for a player who might not play many games.

McCarthy and Birchall we took a chance on as they where cheap so less Risk.
All this talk 2 firsts etc is too big a risk.

Has there been any sign that David Noble and Dom Ambrogio are the sort to offer up best 22 players? They really aren't the type to make rash decisions. I have faith in them.

Unless McStay demands a trade he won't be leaving.

 

[Lazza16]

you say they will match as of course they want more.
I cannot see us giving a baseline to make him pick 7. As be bonuses if he makes targets.
So be either pick 20 after first round or later.

So Bombers want more
They prob want our first 2 picks and a player or two
i be happy one of our firsts and any fringe player happy to go. Be it Matho, Witho, Archie,Cox or anyone else who feeling behind.
Not sure I be happy starting 22 like Hipwood, McStay etc,
I worry it be like Fev we offer players who not happy to go.

How happy would Butler be if Witho turned up. There was much aggression when Butler ragdolled Witho when we last met Essendon. Unlike Butler.

 

[spotthedog1]

I look forward to thinking up a punny title for this thread that no one finds funny.

Swiper no swiping! Dodora the Explorer tries to navigate free agency

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Would you consider it acceptable if the trade was Daniher and Essendon's 2021 2nd round pick for our 2020 Pick 19 and 2021 1st round pick?

Personally I don't like having to give up more than pick 19, but Dodoro will probably need to be able show a win on paper to save face.

 

[Dalions]

Would you consider it acceptable if the trade was Daniher and Essendon's 2021 2nd round pick for our 2020 Pick 19 and 2021 1st round pick?

Personally I don't like having to give up more than pick 19, but Dodoro will probably need to be able show a win on paper to save face.

A win on paper would be to accept the compo, move on and right your wrongs.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A win on paper would be to accept the compo, move on and right your wrongs.

Not in Dodoro's model of the world, according to everybody. He needs to feel he's won, and I don't think pick 20 alone will do that for him.

 

[Dalions]

Not in Dodoro's model of the world, according to everybody. He needs to feel he's won, and I don't think pick 20 alone will do that for him.

That is the wrongs he needs to right on This particular occasion.

 

[Lionwest]

Its going to be really interesting to see the dynamics of Essendon this FA and trade period.

Rightly or wrongly Dodoro has a reputation of being very difficult, he could either ease up on that and get these deal done in the first part of the trade period to allow them time to bring in some talent with the proceeds received from the guys that move on.....or he can dig his heals in and push these trades right to the end like we saw with Daniher last year. This is a very risky approach for mine as it will leave them very little time to get other talent in the door, if that's possible at all.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Its going to be really interesting to see the dynamics of Essendon this FA and trade period.

Rightly or wrongly Dodoro has a reputation of being very difficult, he could either ease up on that and get these deal done in the first part of the trade period to allow them time to bring in some talent with the proceeds received from the guys that move on.....or he can dig his heals in and push these trades right to the end like we saw with Daniher last year. This is a very risky approach for mine as it will leave them very little time to get other talent in the door, if that's possible at all.

The big deals nearly always happen at the 11th hour. If they involve Dodoro, sometimes not at all.

 

[bungalow_bill]

2021 Daniher-d Immunity

How about the Joe the lion made of iron mega thread

 

[Scubaveg]

I think they might if the compensation is an end of first round pick. Can't see us offering any more than our worst first round selection or we might come up with something creative.

They won’t know the compensation until after.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[beatnik]

Whatever Rutten's game plan is it's a long way from the problem at this point in time.

When Hird was coach, he once said words to the effect that game plans are irrelevant if there is no pressure. I'd expand on that slightly to say that it needs to be underpinned by both a solid ball winning core and pressure without the ball. We are so bad at these aspects of the game that no plan is going to be able to cover for it, though we have tried (and had some moderate success in terms of wins and losses over the period).

We've had a bottom 4 midfield for years. We've have had no natural first touch contested ball winner / distributor since Jobe. The clearance numbers are inflated because our players are damaging in space and Bellchamber's ruck work was first rate. There are also a number of distortions in the contested possession numbers created by the category as a whole (such as a loose ball get being considered a contested possession) which mean that the stat does not tell the full picture. We're like the Wallabies have been (last time I checked about 10 years ago), on the back foot without the ability to physically dictate the way a game is played.

I tend to worry more about game plans at the top end. Last year it was evident the Lions didn't take enough from an opponent to be a threat (which is also why I wasn't surprised when we belted you), Geelong is clearly not able to adapt its plan to meet the intensity of finals. Beveridge is a pretty spectacular failure when it comes to maximising the talent at his disposal as are Cameron and Goodwin. There's not a lot of sophistication there, it's basically all or nothing at the coal face (which simply doesn't work at the very top end - Richmond and Hawthorn have 5 of the last 7 premiership barely focusing on clearances, for example).

Rutten's biggest problem stems from how realistic the club is prepared to be about the midfield. It's not evident to me how we become a forward 50 team if we can win the ball and use it under physical pressure (which we cant). It remains to be seen whether, McGrath aside, any of these players can become high quality without the ball. There are also real problems with the running capacity of the list generally. It's abysmal. I don't see many players who are capable of the high intensity running that is required to play the Richmond style (which is manic between the arcs).

Rutten will be fine as long as we commit to a complete rebuild and I assume we have because it will be required to do what he wants (which is why there now seems to be so much smoke around Merrett though its Heppell, Parish and a beaten up Smith that are probably the bigger problems). The problem will stem from trying to get a list to implement a plan it's not capable of playing. The reason I don't think this problem is unique to Rutten is that I don't think the list is capable of playing a brand of football that holds up at all (which is what the results show).

It would be extremely unusual for Essendon to concede that it's not in contention so there is absolutely a danger that the coteries start making noises and Rutten gets sacked. I just don't think it will have anything to do with his game plan.

Exceptional post BrunoV...superb analysis...come back any time

 

[beatnik]

I look forward to thinking up a punny title for this thread that no one finds funny.

How about:

Dons fans left with bitter taste from ‘mourning Joe’

 

[briztoon]

It would be extremely unusual for Essendon to concede that it's not in contention so there is absolutely a danger that the coteries start making noises and Rutten gets sacked. I just don't think it will have anything to do with his game plan.

Can you explain what/who the coteries are, and why they have strong influence on Essendon. Cheers

 

[BuntonRules]

Can you explain what/who the coteries are, and why they have strong influence on Essendon. Cheers

He could, but then he would have to kill you.

 

[briztoon]

He could, but then he would have to kill you.

I can live with that.