Most overrated player (right now and all time)

[Ian Dunross]

You see this is where you're mistaken.

He's already great.

God help the rest of you if he actually improves significantly from where he is now.

You've got a low bar for great.

 

[TiAn_]

Funnily enough, only 2 of the 5 judges rated Juddy as BOG in the 2005 GF (and Rucci gave him just one vote.)
Cyril, if you remember was rated as BOG by 4 of the judges and received 2 votes from Bomber Thompson

Amon Buchanan, Nic Fosdike, Brett Kirk and LRT all had more influence on the 2005 GF than Judd, but they weren't household names. They were seen as overachieving battlers. They didn't have the same brand recognition as Judd, so they didn't get the required votes from all 5 judges. I'm guessing the Robbo & Reed were struggling with their votes, so they just looked at the stats sheet like you did. Check out Robbo & Reed's votes. NFI.


2005 Norm Smith votes

Mark Robinson (Herald Sun)
3 - Judd
2 - Kirk
1 - Wirrpanda

Michaelangelo Rucci (Adelaide Advertiser)
3 - Fosdike
2 - Cousins
1 - Judd

Stephen Quartermain (Channel Ten)
3 - Fosdike
2 - Judd
1 - Buchanan

David Reed (West Australian)
3 - Judd
2 - Kirk
1 - Barry

Graeme Bond (3AW)
3 - Buchanan
2 - Judd
1 - Roberts-Thomson

Just had to add that this post is the best yet.

"Cyril Rioli won the Norm Smith, thus he's clearly a great of the game and not overrated at all."

Nek minnut

"Norm Smith judges can't be trusted because they struggle with their vote and look at stats and only gave Chris Judd the Norm Smith because of his reputation."

Another masterful effort for your lolbrary.

 

[RAPPA]

Just had to add that this post is the best yet.

"Cyril Rioli won the Norm Smith, thus he's clearly a great of the game and not overrated at all."

Nek minnut

"Norm Smith judges can't be trusted because they struggle with their vote and look at stats and only gave Chris Judd the Norm Smith because of his reputation."

Another masterful effort for your lolbrary.

Cyril is one of the greats of the game...that is if the game lasts 10 minutes in total.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Anyhoo, back on Cyril… He is a forward, so he's not going to get 20+ possessions very often. He is also the most unselfish, team-oriented forward I've ever seen, so he's not going to kick bags of goals like Eddie Betts. He could. But I think he's happier kicking a couple and setting up goals for his teammates.

Yes great comparison. Rioli is the least selfish forward of all time, in contrast to that goal hog Betts.

Except that, since they started keeping goal assist stats, Betts has recorded 153 to Rioli's 122. Which includes finals stats, of which Rioli has played a lot more than Betts.

 

[#gosaintas]

Betts is a much better fwd than Rioli and is marked far harder. Rioli doesn't even need to get the ball to be gushed over. Even a near tackle is fuel for a love fest. A mere movement by Rioli gets the gushers gushing. Poor Betts by comparison has to actually do something to get noticed and he does far more than little cyril ever does.

 

[CD__]

Most overrated playing now is Sam Reid

Who rates Reid? Or do you mean more in terms of how much his potential is hyped?

He'd slot very nicely into North's forward line

 

[Davo23]

Just had to add that this post is the best yet.

"Cyril Rioli won the Norm Smith, thus he's clearly a great of the game and not overrated at all."

Nek minnut

"Norm Smith judges can't be trusted because they struggle with their vote and look at stats and only gave Chris Judd the Norm Smith because of his reputation."

Another masterful effort for your lolbrary.

We value Norm Smith medals won by our players.
Cyril joins a number of champions like Gary Ayres, Luke Hodge, Brain Lake, etc.

Don't you value your players who play great Grand Finals?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Averages more Norm Smith votes per game?

Or more coaches votes?

Role players can often attract coaches votes.

I get what you're saying, coaches rate him.

That he has more coaches? votes than Franklin, Burgoyne, Roughead, Lewis and Birchall is interesting and surprising to me. But imo I would probably rather those 5 mentioned in my team ahead of Rioli over the course of a season and a finals campaign fwiw. But as you say, hard to argue w the coaches. But again, imo fwiw, would much rather Burgoyne in my team (for example) than Rioli.

If you mean NS votes, I would suggest that Rioli has played in 5 GFs and been very good/great in one - 2015, good in another - 2008, pretty anonymous in another 2 - 2013 and 2014 and completely anonymous in 2012. Injuries an alibi in a couple of those.

Interesting point to debate.

Coaches votes.

Fact is, he receives more votes per game than all Hawk players, bar Mitchell, Hodge and Gibson. That's a pretty outstanding record and shows his consistency.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Betts is a much better fwd than Rioli and is marked far harder. Rioli doesn't even need to get the ball to be gushed over. Even a near tackle is fuel for a love fest. A mere movement by Rioli gets the gushers gushing. Poor Betts by comparison has to actually do something to get noticed and he does far more than little cyril ever does.

Applying the 'you're only as good as your last game" rule to Betts, he turned up at 3 qtr time, and was bloody horrible....

 

[Ian Dunross]

Why are we applying that rule?

Didn't he kick 6 in the elim final?

 

[Donakebab]

Applying the 'you're only as good as your last game" rule to Betts, he turned up at 3 qtr time, and was bloody horrible....

And Leigh Matthews was a complete hack who didn't show up on the biggest stage.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Am so with you on Long, although Brad Johnston keeps him honest.

Again ... Johnson played 364 games, you'd think someone who followed the game would know his name. Doesn't really aid your over-rated claim ... he's so hyped up and talked about you almost learnt his name

 

[Donkey Chop]

Who rates Reid? Or do you mean more in terms of how much his potential is hyped?

He'd slot very nicely into North's forward line

The fact you believe this tells me he's overrated. Who would he push out? Not Petrie or Waite, nor Brown because he's our second ruck.

 

[CD__]

I'd take him over Waite for sure...better athlete and definitely better defensively. His goals per game etc. won't look very good but that's only because he hasn't played permanent FWD the last few seasons, hopefully he will this season!

 

[Donkey Chop]

I'd take him over Waite for sure...better athlete and definitely better defensively. His goals per game etc. won't look very good but that's only because he hasn't played permanent FWD the last few seasons, hopefully he will this season!

Waite was very good defensively last year. His casing and tackling was a real feature of his game.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It's like a schoolyard in here. So pathetic at times.

 

[CD__]

Waite was very good defensively last year. His casing and tackling was a real feature of his game.

Do you think he'll maintain it this year? Or do you think age will catch up to him? Always thought he was criminally underrated at Carlton.

 

[Ian Dunross]

I think it's pretty civil

One of the btr threads

Disagreement /= school yard

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

It's like a schoolyard in here. So pathetic at times.

You are!

 

[Adnan]

Trent Cotchin

 

[Donkey Chop]

Do you think he'll maintain it this year? Or do you think age will catch up to him? Always thought he was criminally underrated at Carlton.

No one can answer that with any surety.

All I can say is I hope he can maintain it or one of the young blokes coming through can push him out.

 

[JUBJUB]

It's like a schoolyard in here. So pathetic at times.

fight,fight,fight

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yes great comparison. Rioli is the least selfish forward of all time, in contrast to that goal hog Betts.

Except that, since they started keeping goal assist stats, Betts has recorded 153 to Rioli's 122. Which includes finals stats, of which Rioli has played a lot more than Betts.

Lol. Somehow I'm not surprised at that inaccuracy.

Can't say anything bad about Sir Cyril... Hawfies get melty

 

[SickQwon]

Never thought Cyril was overrated...... Until I read the comments from the Hawthorn supporters in this thread.

 

[TiAn_]

We value Norm Smith medals won by our players.
Cyril joins a number of champions like Gary Ayres, Luke Hodge, Brain Lake, etc.

Don't you value your players who play great Grand Finals?

Haha yawn. Dogs don't have a Norm Smith medalist = Cyril must be properly rated. #HawkLogic. I love that you lobbed "Brain" Lake in there; if only a legend like him would play for the Dogs

For the nth time: I think Cyril's good, obviously, but overrated and gets a lot of plaudits as a result of being flashy and a commentator favorite. Aside from the flash, he's similar to or slightly better than Ballantyne and Breust, but not as good as a Steve Johnson, for example. I don't think he's as critical to the Hawks as Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell and Roughead. Possibly Burgoyne, Gibson and some others too. But he gets far more press than the average 6-7th best player on a team. The hyperbole exceeds his contribution.

Still waiting on that rating of Cyril's GF by comparison to all of the previous Norm Smith winners. Surprised none of you have taken it up, since you obviously enjoy embarrassing yourselves.