Current Murder of Luke Davies & Jesse Baird AFL Goal Umpire & ex Ch 10 Presenter * Stalker Cop Charged

[Pamcake1]

TIMELINE

Thursday 16 February: Service revolver obtained for user pays event. Was stored at mother's as per regulations.

Sunday 19 February: User pays event.

Monday 20 February: The murders at Baird's Paddington rental.

Monday 19 February: Police have alleged gunshots were heard from a house in Paddington, Sydney in the morning. Four minutes after the first shots were fired there was a 000 call made from Jessie's phone around 9.45am, but it disconnected. Police said there was "no communication" during that call.

Monday evening: Police have alleged Lamarre-Condon hired a white Hiace van from Sydney Airport.

Tuesday 20 February: Police have alleged that partial admissions were made by Lamarre-Condon to an acquaintance of having been involved in the death of two individuals.

Service revolver was returned to Balmain & later transferred to original storage.

Wednesday 21 February: Bloodied clothing belonging to both victims and an $8000 watch were found in a skip bin in the southern Sydney suburb of Cronulla. Police launch a missing persons investigation and the homicide unit is notified

Later same Wednesday: Police have alleged Lamarre-Condon attended the Bungonia area with an acquaintance who police believed assisted him in purchasing an angle grinder and padlock from a local hardware store in that area, before driving to a rural property in Bungonia.

Police said the "small" angle grinder was used to sever a padlock from the gate of that particular rural property and then that padlock was replaced with a padlock purchased from the hardware store.

The acquaintance was left at the top of the property for 30 minutes. The accused disappeared for that period in the Hiace van, returning to pick up the acquaintance and then they returned to Sydney later that afternoon. Police said the acquaintance was assisting them in their inquiries, that she is not a suspect, and they believe she was an "innocent agent".

Wednesday 11pm: Police have said that evening, weights were purchased from a department store by the accused and it is believed that the accused returned to that rural property overnight and during that evening, having also acquired two torches from the acquaintance.

Thursday 22 February: Police have alleged they can place the accused leaving the Bungonia area again at 4.30am. "It would appear that the accused has remained in the city area, still in control of the white Hiace van, before attending a further acquaintance's premises in the Newcastle area and without fully disclosing any criminality, asked access to a hose to clean that van," Hudson said.

Friday 23 February: At 10.39am, Lamarre-Condon presents himself at Bondi Police Station where he was arrested and subsequently charged.

​

 

[Hodges 153!]

Very hard to lift two bodies at once.

Most likely, but who knows.

Point is, only one bag does not necessarily mean "definitely manslaughter not murder".

It's an argument to be had, meaning there will be a trial.

 

[Pamcake1]

That’s right. Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, to any of us or anyone we know. How many times do you hear “He was always nice and friendly. We had no idea he was going to [whatever he did]”?

That’s why the police often say when suspected DV is reported, “We can’t do anything unless he does something.” He might never do anything!

In hindsight Jesse probably should have reported the harassment, but people often don’t want to do that, for many perfectly good reasons. It’s embarrassing, and you don’t want to cry wolf , you just hope it stops. And you might make things worse. The point is you can’t predict what others might do, only be wise after the event. Shoulda coulda woulda is impossible.

As to DV and reporting.
There is still a lot of educating to be done about it within the Police Force.
I know personally of a case of DV here in Melbs, where the Police instead of serving the AVO rang the offender and said they would be serving it on him and to come to the Police Station by 9am in the morning.
This was 4 weeks ago.
So they gave him a tip off and a 12 hour window.
Thankfully nothing happened but it did mean that my friend made sure her daughter was not 'At Home' overnight just in case.

There is a lot of lip service about change and educating the Police about DV but some of us know that this is just the beginning and there is a lot of ground to be covered before changes are done and happen.
Reporting and procedures for dealing with DV are still not certain and frankly unreliable.

If anything good can come out of this horror I hope that it will be expedited and thorough changes in the way DV is handled and thought of otherwise it's just another brick in the wall.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

As to DV and reporting.
There is still a lot of educating to be done about it within the Police Force.
I know personally of a case of DV here in Melbs, where the Police instead of serving the AVO rang the offender and said they would be serving it on him and to come to the Police Station by 9am in the morning.
This was 4 weeks ago.
So they gave him a tip off and a 12 hour window.
Thankfully nothing happened but it did mean that my friend made sure her daughter was not 'At Home' overnight just in case.

There is a lot of lip service about change and educating the Police about DV but some of us know that this is just the beginning and there is a lot of ground to be covered before changes are done and happen.
Reporting and procedures for dealing with DV are still not certain and frankly unreliable.

If anything good can come out of this horror I hope that it will be expedited and thorough changes in the way DV is handled and thought of otherwise it's just another brick in the wall.

Not only is education in the police force needed, but society in general.

So many don't seem to know what constitutes DV/IPV and the warning signs.

And that includes perpetrators, victims, bystanders, families & friends, work colleagues & the general public.

I rest my case

 

[HirdsTheWord]

As to DV and reporting.
There is still a lot of educating to be done about it within the Police Force.
I know personally of a case of DV here in Melbs, where the Police instead of serving the AVO rang the offender and said they would be serving it on him and to come to the Police Station by 9am in the morning.
This was 4 weeks ago.
So they gave him a tip off and a 12 hour window.
Thankfully nothing happened but it did mean that my friend made sure her daughter was not 'At Home' overnight just in case.

There is a lot of lip service about change and educating the Police about DV but some of us know that this is just the beginning and there is a lot of ground to be covered before changes are done and happen.
Reporting and procedures for dealing with DV are still not certain and frankly unreliable.

If anything good can come out of this horror I hope that it will be expedited and thorough changes in the way DV is handled and thought of otherwise it's just another brick in the wall.

This case will learn nothing from DV protocols, nor add to them in a beneficial way because what occurred is not DV.

Jessee and LC were not partners nor in a domestic relationship.

They were allegedly intimate once and then Jessee no longer wanted contact with LC. Having a one-night stand does NOT form a partnership relationship which is the definition of DV. Partners in a relationship definition are people who are committed to each other. This was not the case with Jesse and LC.

What this case needs to provide lessons learnt on is.

1) Police firearm storage protocols.
2) Screening process and ongoing mental assessments of police officers.
3) Why Jessee seemingly did not feel like he could make a complaint to the Police Force allegedly out of fear because LC worked there.

 

[BFew]

There is no point in speculation

Tell that to NSW Police and their spokespersons, including the top brass who have been on TV repeatedly speculating on this case.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not only is education in the police force needed, but society in general.

So many don't seem to know what constitutes DV/IPV and the warning signs.

And that includes perpetrators, victims, bystanders, families & friends, work colleagues & the general public.

I rest my case

you really need to go and google the definition of DV and IPV before you tell other people they are wrong my man. We can all have different interpretations of what this fall under, I clearly disagree with you.

Both DV and IPV revolve around people being in a PARTNERSHIP. Every single definition of both DV and IPV refers to partners. Jesse clearing made inferences to his friends and even his EX that were was no relationship nor partnership between him and LC.

Having a one-night stand, which is what LC and Jessee allegedly had, does not form a PARTNERSHIP and just because LC is a lunatic and thinks they are in one, doesn't make it so.

You're literally saying if i have one night stand with a hooker, we are in a partner relationship.

This is the case of a deranged person stalking and murdering his victim as well as killing his victims ACTUAL PARTNER.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Reporting and procedures for dealing with DV are still not certain and frankly unreliable.

Our legal system requires evidence, to prevent unfair detention or other punishment when no offence has been committed. AVOs are meant to deter potential abusers from going any further but we know how successful those aren’t.

It’s a fine line to step across into Human Rights territory.

Education and publicity don’t seem to be working- DV is going UP . I don’t know what the answer is. People gonna people.

 

[Pamcake1]

This case will learn nothing from DV protocols, nor add to them in a beneficial way because what occurred is not DV.

Jessee and LC were not partners nor in a domestic relationship.

They were allegedly intimate once and then Jessee no longer wanted contact with LC. Having a one-night stand does NOT form a partnership relationship which is the definition of DV. Partners in a relationship definition are people who are committed to each other. This was not the case with Jesse and LC.

What this case needs to provide lessons learnt on is.

1) Police firearm storage protocols.
2) Screening process and ongoing mental assessments of police officers.
3) Why Jessee seemingly did not feel like he could make a complaint to the Police Force allegedly out of fear because LC worked there.

One, we do not know exactly how many times they met up, had sex, had just a cuppa and a chat.
Two, it is not in dispute that they had a relationship of some kind.
Three, Interpersonal violence is not measured by degrees.
Four, Interpersonal violence is known as Domestic Violence.

You will go on believing what you will, you have had a lot to say about what you think, that is fine as you have the right to your say however by arguing relentlessly about your point of view on the case not being DV, when it has been argued cogently that it is, just proves my point about the need for people to listen up and get beyond how they frame DV and work towards stopping it.
I'm sure on this point we can all agree; there is a necessity in our society to not condone interpersonal violence and do everything in our power to stop it.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Our legal system requires evidence, to prevent unfair detention or other punishment when no offence has been committed. AVOs are meant to deter potential abusers from going any further but we know how successful those aren’t.

It’s a fine line to step across into Human Rights territory.

Education and publicity don’t seem to be working- DV is going UP . I don’t know what the answer is. People gonna people.

Police are far too understaffed to be a deterrence to these kinds of issues. They are largely reactionary.

The only way to reduce DV meaningfully is to educate kids and then teenagers and the adults and provide outlets to those suffering it.

It is a cultural thing largely.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

One, we do not know exactly how many times they met up, had sex, had just a cuppa and a chat.
Two, it is not in dispute that they had a relationship of some kind.
Three, Interpersonal violence is not measured by degrees.
Four, Interpersonal violence is known as Domestic Violence.

You will go on believing what you will, you have had a lot to say about what you think, that is fine as you have the right to your say however by arguing relentlessly about your point of view on the case not being DV, when it has been argued cogently that it is, just proves my point about the need for people to listen up and get beyond how they frame DV and work towards stopping it.
I'm sure on this point we can all agree; there is a necessity in our society to not condone interpersonal violence and do everything in our power to stop it.

Your point is true and why i said allegedly. What's been reported is they allegedly had a one-night stand and after that Jesse broke off contact with LC with the assistance of his EX. If that is the case and that's all they did then this is NOT DV.

If they did more than that, dated etc than obviously i agree they formed a partnership which then would fall under DV.

 

[Pamcake1]

Our legal system requires evidence, to prevent unfair detention or other punishment when no offence has been committed. AVOs are meant to deter potential abusers from going any further but we know how successful those aren’t.

It’s a fine line to step across into Human Rights territory.

Education and publicity don’t seem to be working- DV is going UP . I don’t know what the answer is. People gonna people.

Yes, if there is evidence for a AVO to be actioned which in this case there was, it should be actioned without prejudice. it wasn't.
I have no idea what the line is that you draw Human Rights in here so I will not comment on that.
Your message here is one of defeat. I disagree strongly and a deafeatist attitude is not warrented.
We can do better. People can do better. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
The conversation around DV is manifest, a positive outcome is no less an outcome one aspires for.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

you really need to go and google the definition of DV and IPV before you tell other people they are wrong my man.

Both DV and IPV revolve around people being in a PARTNERSHIP. Every single definition refers to partners. Jesse clearing made inferences to his friends and even his EX that were was no relationship nor partnership between him and LC.

Having a one-night stand, which is what LC and Jessee allegedly had, does not form a PARTNERSHIP and just because LC is a lunatic and thinks they are in one, doesn't make it so.

You're literally saying if i have one night stand with a hooker, we are in a partner relationship.

This is the case of a deranged person stalking and murdering his victim as well as killing his victims ACTUAL PARTNER.

They had been intimate.

Jesse had to end the relationship/friend with benefits arrangement, whatever you want to call it.

It ended badly.

LC behaved as if they were in a relationship & posted photos on his accounts suggesting they were a couple.

The feelings don't need to be reciprocated for this to be DV/IPV. In most cases, it escalates when one person ends the relationship, regardless of how serious it is.

LC was obviously obsessed with Jesse & displaying predatory behaviour for months leading up to the murders.

You're getting hung up on the word 'partner/partnership'.

The fact is the predatory behaviour, the control, the hatred, the stalking, the power, the obsession LC was displaying, is everything which exists in DV/IPV.

People don't need to have been in serious relationships/partnerships/co existing to be victims of DV/Intimate Partner Violence.

And it is exactly why people need to be educated on it.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

They had been intimate.

Jesse had to end the relationship/friend with benefits arrangement, whatever you want to call it.

It ended badly.

LC behaved as if they were in a relationship & posted photos on his accounts suggesting they were a couple.

The feelings don't need to be reciprocated for this to be DV/IPV. In most cases, it escalates when one person ends the relationship, regardless of how serious it is.

LC was obviously obsessed with Jesse & displaying predatory behaviour for months leading up to the murders.

You're getting hung up on the word 'partner/partnership'.

The fact is the predatory behaviour, the control, the hatred, the stalking, the power, the obsession LC was displaying, is everything which exists in DV/IPV.

People don't need to have been in serious relationships/partnerships/co existing to be victims of DV/Intimate Partner Violence.

And it is exactly why people need to be educated on it.

i was clear in that i said if it was not DV if it was a one-night stand only. i have only seen it reported as a one-night stand only.

The word partner is literally in the definition of DV. Its kinda important. Kinda like trying to define Earth but then getting "caught up" on the word planet.

If they met up several times and it was not just a once off thing than i would tend to agree with you that it is DV. If that's what it ends up being of course.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

i was clear in that i said if it was not DV if it was a one-night stand only. i have only seen it reported as a one-night stand only.

The word partner is literally in the definition of DV. Its kinda important. Kinda like trying to define Earth but then getting "caught up" on the word planet.

If they met up several times and it was not just a once off thing than i would tend to agree with you that it is DV. If that's what it ends up being of course.

And the word partner can be used very broadly:

Noun ; either of a pair of people engaged together in the same activity.

And/or:

What does the word partner mean in a relationship?

Partner is simply a way of describing someone you're romantically or sexually involved with. It doesn't necessarily indicate any particular level of seriousness or commitment, although some people do tend to associate the word with a more committed relationship.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

And the word partner can be used very broadly:

Noun ; either of a pair of people engaged together in the same activity.

And/or:

What does the word partner mean in a relationship?

Partner is simply a way of describing someone you're romantically or sexually involved with. It doesn't necessarily indicate any particular level of seriousness or commitment, although some people do tend to associate the word with a more committed relationship.

Not sure where you are getting your definitions but almost all Australian law and government outlets define a partnership as one based on a level of commitment.

This is to both a relationship as well as a business sense.

Like i said, by your definition, if i had intercourse with a prostitute, we would be partners. No one with any level of common sense would suggest that someone who sleeps with someone as once off were partners. Again, like i said if LC and Jessee were more than this then i agree with you.

Ultimately like i said before, he isn't going to be charged for domestic violence, he is going to be charged for Murder. So, we are probably ure getting in the weeds a bit.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Not sure where you are getting your definitions but almost all Australian law and government outlets define a partnership as one based on commitment.

This is to both a relationship as well as a business sense.

Like i said, by your definition, if i had intercourse with a prostitute, we would be partners.

Ultimately like i said before, he isn't going to be charged for domestic violence, he is going to be charged for Murder. So, we are probably ure getting in the weeds a bit.

People who murder their ex/partners also get charged with murder. It's still domestic violence.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

People who murder their ex/partners also get charged with murder. It's still domestic violence.

pending the circumstances sure.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yes, if there is evidence for a AVO to be actioned which in this case there was, it should be actioned without prejudice. it wasn't.
I have no idea what the line is that you draw Human Rights in here so I will not comment on that.
Your message here is one of defeat. I disagree strongly and a deafeatist attitude is not warrented.
We can do better. People can do better. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
The conversation around DV is manifest, a positive outcome is no less an outcome one aspires for.

Yes but we’re not doing better, DV is becoming more frequent. Whether that’s because the definition has been expanded I’m not sure. Of course something must be done. But blanket rules don’t work in this area. It’s personal responsibility that has to be tapped into, in each individual, as well as dealing with burgeoning mental health issues.

Detaining people without charge because they might do something is contrary to Human Rights, which is why the police can’t do anything. It’s against the law.

What do you mean an AVO should be actioned without prejudice? What sort of prejudice?

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Yes but we’re not doing better, DV is becoming more frequent. Whether that’s because the definition has been expanded I’m not sure. Of course something must be done. But blanket rules don’t work in this area. It’s personal responsibility that has to be tapped into, in each individual, as well as dealing with burgeoning mental health issues.

Detaining people without charge because they might do something is contrary to Human Rights, which is why the police can’t do anything. It’s against the law.

What do you mean an AVO should be actioned without prejudice? What sort of prejudice?

Another reason why DV/IVP is statistically on the increase would be because people used to just stay in toxic relationships previously & DV wasn't reported at all.

And whilst it's still under reported, there would no doubt be more reports made now than years gone by.

It wasn't that long ago that it was widely accepted, including by police, that whatever happened behind closed doors and between a husband and wife was no one else's business. And that most definitely included DV/IPV.

Also as we know DV escalates when the victim chooses to leave the relationship, which more women have the capacity to do so now.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yes but we’re not doing better, DV is becoming more frequent. Whether that’s because the definition has been expanded I’m not sure. Of course something must be done. But blanket rules don’t work in this area. It’s personal responsibility that has to be tapped into, in each individual, as well as dealing with burgeoning mental health issues.

Detaining people without charge because they might do something is contrary to Human Rights, which is why the police can’t do anything. It’s against the law.

What do you mean an AVO should be actioned without prejudice? What sort of prejudice?

Whilst AVO's are important in reality if someone has intent to kill someone an AVO isn't going to stop them. Social media has allowed it so you can track people down to the day. You can't hide anymore.

The only way DV gets reduced is by education. Whether we are doing enough or not i am not sure. I was always raised and educated to respect women, I'm not sure what is going on where so many men either dont get the message, or they change in that DV numbers are rising. Maybe increased mentla health has something to do with it?

 

[Kurve]

This case will learn nothing from DV protocols, nor add to them in a beneficial way because what occurred is not DV.

Jessee and LC were not partners nor in a domestic relationship.

They were allegedly intimate once and then Jessee no longer wanted contact with LC. Having a one-night stand does NOT form a partnership relationship which is the definition of DV. Partners in a relationship definition are people who are committed to each other. This was not the case with Jesse and LC.

What this case needs to provide lessons learnt on is.

1) Police firearm storage protocols.
2) Screening process and ongoing mental assessments of police officers.
3) Why Jessee seemingly did not feel like he could make a complaint to the Police Force allegedly out of fear because LC worked there.

It is intimate partner violence, a subset of DV, this has been explained to you many times now why it is.

I can't help but feel you're being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Kurve]

What this case needs to provide lessons learnt on is.

1) Police firearm storage protocols.
2) Screening process and ongoing mental assessments of police officers.
3) Why Jessee seemingly did not feel like he could make a complaint to the Police Force allegedly out of fear because LC worked there.

These are valid considerations but he's still a bloke who couldn't handle rejection in an intimate partner situation. It's DV if the cops language might be a bit awkward, this is what they allege.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

These are valid considerations but he's still a bloke who couldn't handle rejection in an intimate partner situation. It's DV if the cops language might be a bit awkward, this is what they allege.

He couldn't handle rejection because he thought he deserved someone like Jesse. Jesse didn't agree. So it was a would-be intimate partner situation. Perhaps that's what the police mean, and they do express themselves awkwardly.

 

[FrankGrimes]

It’s not a premeditated double murder, the second seems to be manslaughter (wrong place wrong time etc). Hoping I’m wrong and I would expect the judge would know the public would be ropable to let LC off too easily. So hoping they slap some extra charges on him.

That’s not manslaughter chief, shooting somebody dead ain’t accidentally death.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Even reckless indifference doesn’t fit the bill on this one, in NSW it is described as: Reckless indifference to human life is characterised by the awareness of the probability (as opposed to possibility) of the accused’s act resulting in a person’s death (as opposed to merely resulting in grievous bodily harm).

LC didn’t know Luke was there and doesn’t satisfy the mens rea/intention/premeditation component of murder (the elemental difference between murder and manslaughter). There is lots of wiggle room in this one for the defence to argue manslaughter.

You don’t know what your talking about, it’s murder, may not be premeditated but it’s murder every day of the week