National Reserves Comp

[threenewpadlocks]

They didn't use their points this year, they could of recruited another 4 players. Why didn't they?

You're suggesting that they deliberately didn't try to recruit the best team they could, which is self-evidently a preposterous assumption of how they would go about things.

Yet you also say this:

The Eagles have difficulty recruiting players because players who have just lost their AFL career don't want to play for them. They want to go back to their original WAFL club. They also don't want to play for the Eagles because their priority is not to win the WAFL premiership where as the WAFL clubs priority is.

Which one is it?

Perhaps it's to do with opportunity, salary cap, the lack of history and relationship with players that WAFL club does. Whether or not it's West Coast's "fault", it's counter-productive to have a team in the first place but for that team to not be competitive. It's also counter-productive to fly the West Coast reserves players to the East Coast to play games (it costs money). If WAFL quality players don't want to be top-up players for the West Coast team, to the extent that it can't be attributed to West Coast simply simply running a poor team, there has to be compromise (an extension of the fact such that introducing the team in the first place is also compromise), because West Coast fairly can't exist in an ecosystem where their non-playing listed players operate in such a different environment to how 17 other clubs in the AFL do it - essentially playing competitive games.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You're suggesting that they deliberately didn't try to recruit the best team they could, which is self-evidently a preposterous assumption of how they would go about things.

Yet you also say this:



Which one is it?

Ask the Eagles why they didn't recruit players? How will that change? How is it preposterous if it actually happened.
And its this as well.

How will those things changes? How do you get former players to want to play for an AFL reserves club?

You need to ask the WCE these questions.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Ask the Eagles why they didn't recruit players? How will that change? How is it preposterous if it actually happened.
And its this as well.

How will those things changes? How do you get former players to want to play for an AFL reserves club?

You need to ask the WCE these questions.

But you're suggesting that they didn't try, that they wouldn't want to try and recruit the best top-up players as possible, which is just preposterous. Of course they would. It's far more likely that they simply couldn't convince players to play for them, or have rule-based constraints in doing so, or some combination of the two, as opposed to the fact that they didn't desire to win games or whatever?

Why would they even request an increase in the allocated points from 65 to 70 from 2023 to 2024 if they weren't attempting to use as many of them as possible?

You can get former AFL players to play for an AFL reserves club by incentivising them to do so through money. They currently can't because they operate in a different salary cap environment to the other WAFL clubs.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

But you're suggesting that they didn't try, that they wouldn't want to try and recruit the best top-up players as possible, which is just preposterous. Of course they would. It's far more likely that they simply couldn't convince players to play for them, or have rule-based constraints in doing so, or some combination of the two, as opposed to the fact that they didn't desire to win games or whatever?

Why would they even request an increase in the allocated points from 65 to 70 from 2023 to 2024 if they weren't attempting to use as many of them as possible?

You can get former AFL players to play for an AFL reserves club by incentivising them to do so through money. They currently can't because they operate in a different salary cap environment to the other WAFL clubs.

Yes money talks. And the one place the Eagles can't throw their money around is the WAFL as it has a salary cap. Not sure how you could think that is not fair?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yes money talks. And the one place the Eagles can't throw their money around is the WAFL as it has a salary cap. Not sure how you could think that is not fair?

They have a reduced salary cap? They are also prevented from recruiting certain types of players through other restrictions, too, in a manner that's different to other WAFL teams, in terms of how they assign points to players and how they're prevented from recruiting ex-AFL players that came up through other WAFL clubs.

In any case, even if players don't want to play for them for similar money (assuming the extent that West Coast are a well-run team but have insurmountable barriers such as not having a pool of players they recruited as juniors), creating an uncompetitive team, there need to be a compromise so they can field a competitive team - it makes their position in the state league untenable, much like flying one team to play home or away every week in a national reserves comp should also be untenable in terms of cost.

Such a compromise might even involve concessions compared to the WAFL club to account for that fact.

If they're not going to field a competitive team, why even have them in the WAFL at all?

and the removal of the three-year barrier will allow the club the chance to retain delisted WA players with fewer than three years’ service on the AFL list.

This was a rule up until 2023.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

They have a reduced salary cap? They are also prevented from recruiting certain types of players through other restrictions, too, in a manner that's different to other WAFL teams, in terms of how they assign points to players and how they're prevented from recruiting ex-AFL players that came up through other WAFL clubs.

In any case, even if players don't want to play for them for similar money (assuming the extent that West Coast are a well-run team but have insurmountable barriers such as not having a pool of players they recruited as juniors), creating an uncompetitive team, there need to be a compromise so they can field a competitive team - it makes their position in the state league untenable, much like flying one team to play home or away every week in a national reserves comp should also be untenable in terms of cost.

Such a compromise might even involve concessions compared to the WAFL club to account for that fact.

If they're not going to field a competitive team, why even have them in the WAFL at all?



This was a rule up until 2023.

Can you name which WAFL club has 20 AFL listed players on their lists? That is why they have a reduced salary cap.
WAFL clubs have a 270K salary cap to spend on their entire 45 person list.
And you think the Eagles should also get 270K to spend on just 20 odd players? You can't seriously think thats how it should be. And if thats the case then go and play with in the VFL and waste millions of footy dollars. The WAFL will never ever allow that to change.
Other restrictions could change and maybe they should if it helps the poor old AFL clubs but the salary cap restriction will never change.

I just can't see how you think a Fully professional AFL club playing in a semi pro league should be able to get the exact same set up as the semi pro league clubs.

It makes no sense.

And I don't think the WAFL clubs do want them in the league, the Eagles have been nothing but a problem since day one for the WAFL. Freo no issue though.

I think the WAFL need them but the clubs are sick to death of them Not my call.

Eventually the AFL will do this reserves league which will simply be a glorified kids comp wearing AFL jumpers. They have the power to sell it and the sheep will get on board. They won't go and watch it though.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Can you name which WAFL club has 20 AFL listed players on their lists? That is why they have a reduced salary cap.
WAFL clubs have a 270K salary cap to spend on their entire 45 person list.
And you think the Eagles should also get 270K to spend on just 20 odd players? You can't seriously think thats how it should be. And if thats the case then go and play with in the VFL and waste millions of footy dollars. The WAFL will never ever allow that to change.
Other restrictions could change and maybe they should if it helps the poor old AFL clubs but the salary cap restriction will never change.

I just can't see how you think a Fully professional AFL club playing in a semi pro league should be able to get the exact same set up as the semi pro league clubs.

It makes no sense.

I'm aware it's reduced because there's going to be less than a full team's worth of top up players for a given game. That in itself doesn't mean that their salary cap isn't too low, or is otherwise inflexible when West Coast would have more than an average amount of injuries (which by definition would be half the games that they play).

That very fact is why the salary cap was increased from 2023 to 2024 anyway!

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm aware it's reduced because there's going to be less than a full team's worth of top up players for a given game. That in itself doesn't mean that their salary cap isn't too low, or is otherwise inflexible when West Coast would have more than an average amount of injuries (which by definition would be half the games that they play).

That very fact is why the salary cap was increased from 2023 to 2024 anyway!

All clubs got an increase at the same time.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm aware it's reduced because there's going to be less than a full team's worth of top up players for a given game. That in itself doesn't mean that their salary cap isn't too low, or is otherwise inflexible when West Coast would have more than an average amount of injuries (which by definition would be half the games that they play).

That very fact is why the salary cap was increased from 2023 to 2024 anyway!

Look we will not agree, you don't understand because your clubs don't have this issue in melbourne. Your clubs all ended up in the AFL (somehow) and the SANFL and WAFL clubs got left out in the cold.
The Eagles reserves side is an AFL issue, let them resolve it and leave the WAFL and SANFL alone.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

All clubs got an increase at the same time.

WAFL: Eagles granted improved recruiting, TPP allowances

The WAFL Eagles will have an increased player payment allowance and improved recruiting conditions from 2024

www.westcoasteagles.com.au

It's phrased as an increase to 60% in relative terms.

Look we will not agree, you don't understand because your clubs don't have this issue in melbourne. Your clubs all ended up in the AFL (somehow) and the SANFL and WAFL clubs got left out in the cold.
The Eagles reserves side is an AFL issue, let them resolve it and leave the WAFL and SANFL alone.

There's still a balance in the VFL as to how ex-AFL players get recruited to AFL reserves clubs and to standalone clubs, to the extent that on average those teams are as competitive as each other. We don't have this issue because everyone accepts it.

It's an AFL issue because it's in the AFL and West Coast's interest to have their reserves be competitive. The AFL would also want to avoid flying teams to and from the West Coast to play second-tier footy, when a similar quality of footy already exists within the city of Perth. Surely you can agree that the WAFL can compromise, especially given that they don't really have the power not to? (As the AFL doesn't have to give as much money to the WAFC, the 1986 licensing agreement be damned).

 

[greatwhiteshark]

WAFL: Eagles granted improved recruiting, TPP allowances

The WAFL Eagles will have an increased player payment allowance and improved recruiting conditions from 2024

www.westcoasteagles.com.au

It's phrased as an increase to 60% in relative terms.


There's still a balance in the VFL as to how ex-AFL players get recruited to AFL reserves clubs and to standalone clubs, to the extent that on average those teams are as competitive as each other. We don't have this issue because everyone accepts it.

It's an AFL issue because it's in the AFL and West Coast's interest to have their reserves be competitive. The AFL would also want to avoid flying teams to and from the West Coast to play second-tier footy, when a similar quality of footy already exists within the city of Perth. Surely you can agree that the WAFL can compromise, especially given that they don't really have the power not to? (As the AFL doesn't have to give as much money to the WAFC, the 1986 licensing agreement be damned).

They have compromised a massive amount over the journey. You are not getting that.
They change their mind every few years and look to a new model.
The WAFL clubs sit there running chook raffles while the money pit sooks constantly. You just don’t get it.

And from what I have read on BF the VFL is a disaster. Again because of AFL clubs. Seems a common theme.