Next Victorian team to win a flag (Pies, Cats and Hawks excluded)

[Mixed Results]

Not sure where the improvement is going to come from for Richmond to go from 12th to a Grand Finalist honestly, it's a huge jump and some of the teams above them have more scope for improvement.

I don't see the close losses as a huge triumph and a signal of success, I see it as a midfield unit which has nearly peaked as a top 4 contested footy team.

If they miss the finals next year they'll be in big trouble and Richmond fans will have to start asking questions about their future

FWIW I'd back the Bulldogs to beat most of these teams

 

[TiggerMan22]

Not sure where the improvement is going to come from for Richmond to go from 12th to a Grand Finalist honestly, it's a huge jump and some of the teams above them have more scope for improvement.

I don't see the close losses as a huge triumph and a signal of success, I see it as a midfield unit which has nearly peaked as a top 4 contested footy team.

If they miss the finals next year they'll be in big trouble and Richmond fans will have to start asking questions about their future

FWIW I'd back the Bulldogs to beat most of these teams

The improvement is going to come from getting Vickery back.
Reiwoldt actually having a pre-season.
Getting Grimes back.
Getting Chaplin.
Getting Foley Back.
Cotchin improving once again, since he has only had 2 full pre-seasons ever.
Martin going back to his 2011 form and then improving on it.
A few of Conca, Griffiths, Dea, Helbig, Batchelor, Astbury having breakout seasons.
Maric actually getting a break from Rucking.

Surely that will be enough to turn a fair few of our 10 losses of 4 goals or less into wins.

Our midfield is not even close to peaking. Deledio and Tuck are the only ones in our mid that are at their peak. And Deledio could improve even more since that was his first year in the Mid

If we don't make finals, I won't be asking questions

 

[Bugga1962]

The improvement is going to come from getting Vickery back.
Reiwoldt actually having a pre-season.
Getting Grimes back.
Getting Chaplin.
Getting Foley Back.
Cotchin improving once again, since he has only had 2 full pre-seasons ever.
Martin going back to his 2011 form and then improving on it.
A few of Conca, Griffiths, Dea, Helbig, Batchelor, Astbury having breakout seasons.
Maric actually getting a break from Rucking.

Surely that will be enough to turn a fair few of our 10 losses of 4 goals or less into wins.

Our midfield is not even close to peaking. Deledio and Tuck are the only ones in our mid that are at their peak. And Deledio could improve even more since that was his first year in the Mid

If we don't make finals, I won't be asking questions

Lol that is the mentality that has gotten Richmond where it is over the last 3 decades. Consistently naming players that WILL improve and scenarios that will happen with another season and again failing to deliver. I really like Richmond and they are my second club but come on if they dont make the finals next year it is a BIG dissapointment

Richmond as a club need to adopt the mentality that near enough is not good enough. Maybe then they will become football relevant again and not just the feel good story when they manage a few good performances.

 

[Mixed Results]

The improvement is going to come from getting Vickery back.
Reiwoldt actually having a pre-season.
Getting Grimes back.
Getting Chaplin.
Getting Foley Back.
Cotchin improving once again, since he has only had 2 full pre-seasons ever.
Martin going back to his 2011 form and then improving on it.
A few of Conca, Griffiths, Dea, Helbig, Batchelor, Astbury having breakout seasons.
Maric actually getting a break from Rucking.

Surely that will be enough to turn a fair few of our 10 losses of 4 goals or less into wins.

Our midfield is not even close to peaking. Deledio and Tuck are the only ones in our mid that are at their peak. And Deledio could improve even more since that was his first year in the Mid

If we don't make finals, I won't be asking questions

--Don't think the pre-seasons in Riewoldt and Cotchin will make too much of a difference, they are already great players, it is unreasonable to assume their improvement will equate to more wins. Didn't Cotchin come 3rd in the Brownlow? and Riewoldt has 2 Colemans. Not much scope for improvement realistically.

--As seen with Goldy this year Maric getting a break might not actually be the big positive, and he already had AA form, think he has been close to peaking.

--Grimes has yet to play 10 games in a season, but for his sake I hope he can this year. Uphill battle though, wouldn't bank on it.

--Chaplin will help, was a great recruitment.

--Foley Back will help, but what he adds Richmond were already great at

--And not many players will breakout before there 5th season... at-least not into game changers.

To remove bias I'll compare that to Essendon

--Added Goddard

--Will Add Daniher

--Full season of #1 Rucking for Belly, smart money is on him to become this years breakout Ruckman

--Zaka Full pre-season

--Potential breakout years for Hurley, Colyer, Myers etc

--Got rid of Monfries

--Stanton to benefit heaps from attention going to Goddard and Watson

everybody is improving, I don't see anything exceptional about Richmonds scope for improvement

 

[TiggerMan22]

Lol that is the mentality that has gotten Richmond where it is over the last 3 decades. Consistently naming players that WILL improve and scenarios that will happen with another season and again failing to deliver. I really like Richmond and they are my second club but come on if they dont make the finals next year it is a BIG dissapointment

Richmond as a club need to adopt the mentality that near enough is not good enough. Maybe then they will become football relevant again and not just the feel good story when they manage a few good performances.

They did this year. If you have heard Hardwick talk at all after any of our close loses, you can tell that being close to winning isn't good enough anymore. His speech at the B&F showed this aswell.
I just said I won't be asking any questions if we don't make finals because many things can happen that can cause you to no make finals. But if only reason was we played poorly all year I would be very disappointing but I still would think Hardwick should stay.

 

[Bugga1962]

They did this year. If you have heard Hardwick talk at all after any of our close loses, you can tell that being close to winning isn't good enough anymore. His speech at the B&F showed this aswell.
I just said I won't be asking any questions if we don't make finals because many things can happen that can cause you to no make finals. But if only reason was we played poorly all year I would be very disappointing but I still would think Hardwick should stay.

I was pointing out the fact that after a close loss you can talk and say how its not good enough but to follow it up with another set of close losses makes what he said moot. They can talk as much as they want but until they put it on the field i just can take them seriously hopefully that turns around next season because Richmond in the finals will have an atmosphere like no other.

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Who cares if a side is younger. Only on this site does young and shit > old and good

 

[TiggerMan22]

--Don't think the pre-seasons in Riewoldt and Cotchin will make too much of a difference, they are already great players, it is unreasonable to assume their improvement will equate to more wins. Didn't Cotchin come 3rd in the Brownlow? and Riewoldt has 2 Colemans. Not much scope for improvement realistically.

--As seen with Goldy this year Maric getting a break might not actually be the big positive, and he already had AA form, think he has been close to peaking.

--Grimes has yet to play 10 games in a season, but for his sake I hope he can this year. Uphill battle though, wouldn't bank on it.

--Chaplin will help, was a great recruitment.

--Foley Back will help, but what he adds Richmond were already great at

--And not many players will breakout before there 5th season... at-least not into game changers.

To remove bias I'll compare that to Essendon

--Added Goddard

--Will Add Daniher

--Full season of #1 Rucking for Belly, smart money is on him to become this years breakout Ruckman

--Zaka Full pre-season

--Potential breakout years for Hurley, Colyer, Myers etc

--Got rid of Monfries

--Stanton to benefit heaps from attention going to Goddard and Watson

everybody is improving, I don't see anything exceptional about Richmonds scope for improvement

Cotchin is only 22 and has only had 2 full pre-seasons. Players usually peak at 25, he will improve to be an even better player no doubt.

Talk to any Richmond fan, Reiwoldt had a bad year this year even though he won the coleman. He had 5 surgeries on the off-season last year which meant his pre-season was very, very short.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/150880/default.aspx
As Hardwick says in this "We are expecting bigger and better things from Jack.

The difference with Goldy and Maric is that Vickery is not a full time ruck, Macintosh is. Maric is probably at his peak, but that was his first year with our midfield, it takes time for them to make that connection so they each know exactly were to tap down the ball.

They figured out why Grimes kept getting injured and have know fixed it. Shouldn't happen. With him and Rance in the same team for the first 9 rounds last year we kept all the big forwards (Cloke, Franklin, Clarke) to between 0-3 goals, after Grimes got injured we started to get bags kicked against us. Add in Chaplin to Grimes and Rance and our backline should be very strong.

Foley adds something to the mid that no other player has. After we lost him our team wasn't the same, ask any Richmond supporter.

They might not be game changes but a few improving in to good players could help change those close losses to defeats which is all we need. Before Grimes second season he had played 1 game, he came into the side and played against Franklin in his 2nd game ever. Went on to play 8 games and was a game changer, so it is possible.

And all those Essendon improvements seem pretty solid. Dreamtime will be great

 

[TiggerMan22]

Who cares if a side is younger. Only on this site does young and shit > old and good

Wow, you are an idiot. Younger side = more improvement

 

[TiggerMan22]

I was pointing out the fact that after a close loss you can talk and say how its not good enough but to follow it up with another set of close losses makes what he said moot. They can talk as much as they want but until they put it on the field i just can take them seriously hopefully that turns around next season because Richmond in the finals will have an atmosphere like no other.

Yeah, I agree. But I think the close loses are partly because our lack of maturity, not our lack of effort. When it gets close we just don't have enough maturity and composure to stand up. You could see it on the faces of every player after we lost to Carlton how devastated they are. I guess we will have to wait and see next year if they change that.

 

[Shadeeq]

They looked good early as they had the easiest draw in the AFL. Played 18th, 17th, 16th, 14th, 13th, 12th, 10th in the 1st 10 week. Only travel was V Suns and GWS. Too many people got sucked in by there good start without looking at who they beat.

Just compared the first half of the 2012 season for both Essendon and North:

Essendon played: North(8), Port, GC (bottom 4), Carlton, Collingwood (4), BL, WCE (8), Richmond, GWS (Bottom 4), Melbourne (Bottom 4), Sydney (4)
North played: Essendon, Gws (Bottom 4), Geelong (8), Sydney (4), GC (Bottom 4), WCE (8), WB (Bottom 4), Port, BL, Hawks (4), GC (Bottom 4)

They both played two teams in the top 8 and two top 4 teams. Essendon played the bottom 4 three times and North played those teams four times.
Essendon's interstate games were easy but North played more games against the bottom 4.

 

[mufassa]

Just compared the first half of the 2012 season for both Essendon and North:

Essendon played: North(8), Port, GC (bottom 4), Carlton, Collingwood (4), BL, WCE (8), Richmond, GWS (Bottom 4), Melbourne (Bottom 4), Sydney (4)
North played: Essendon, Gws (Bottom 4), Geelong (8), Sydney (4), GC (Bottom 4), WCE (8), WB (Bottom 4), Port, BL, Hawks (4), GC (Bottom 4)

They both played two teams in the top 8 and two top 4 teams. Essendon played the bottom 4 three times and North played those teams four times.
Essendon's interstate games were easy but North played more games against the bottom 4.

I will make this easy as some are not very bright.

117 points was the highest score for the 1st 10 weeks. If you add up the finishing positions of Essendon's games they equal 117. For example if you play GWS you get 18 points - you play the Hawks you get 1. The high the score the easy the draw.

117 is proof Essendon had the easiest 1st 10 games. Unless you can find a higher score. Highest score not even bringing in you only travelled to play GWS and the Suns

 

[Shadeeq]

I will make this easy as some are not very bright.

117 points was the highest score for the 1st 10 weeks. If you add up the finishing positions of Essendon's games they equal 117. For example if you play GWS you get 18 points - you play the Hawks you get 1. The high the score the easy the draw.

117 is proof Essendon had the easiest 1st 10 games. Unless you can find a higher score. Highest score not even bringing in you only travelled to play GWS and the Suns

Why the first TEN weeks Mufassa? That seems like a fairly arbitrary number. Why not make it exactly half of the seasons games? Could it be because Essendons 11th game was against Sydney and Norths was against GC? You are pathetic.

 

[mufassa]

Why the first TEN weeks Mufassa? That seems like a fairly arbitrary number. Why not make it exactly half of the seasons games? Could it be because Essendons 11th game was against Sydney and Norths was against GC? You are pathetic.

So you admit you had the softest 1st 10 weeks after embarrassing yourself trying to deny it and I am pathetic? Lol you are another Essendon muppett the got sucked in with an easy 1st 10 weeks. Last 7 weeks you went to water when things got tough. The real Essendon.

 

[Shadeeq]

So you admit you had the softest 1st 10 weeks after embarrassing yourself trying to deny it and I am pathetic? Lol you are another Essendon muppett the got sucked in with an easy 1st 10 weeks. Last 7 weeks you went to water when things got tough. The real Essendon.

Nope I just disagreed that Essendon had 'the easiest draw in the AFL'which of course was a lie. North had the easiest draw both in the first half of the season and overall. But they only managed 8th and a 96 thumping in the finals with a very healthy list. Sorry mate but I just don't rate north. I will leave you with a quote from a North supporter on your board:

'The problem is people chronically over-rate most of our players. Our starting 22 is really not that great in terms of the here and now, a third of our players are getting games more on potential than output. Ziebell, Cunnington, MacMillan, Bastinac, Atley, Hansen, Tarrant, Wright and Harper don't have the consistency of effort or cohesion. They are effectively good C grade players or mediocre B grade players and miles off having the output of an A grade player.
Our A graders are as follows: Swallow, Harvey. that is it.'


I agree with that 100%.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Why the first TEN weeks Mufassa? That seems like a fairly arbitrary number. Why not make it exactly half of the seasons games? Could it be because Essendons 11th game was against Sydney and Norths was against GC? You are pathetic.

Maybe because he was making a point you had the easiest first 10 games, not first half of the season. Are you really that stupid?

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

So you admit you had the softest 1st 10 weeks after embarrassing yourself trying to deny it and I am pathetic? Lol you are another Essendon muppett the got sucked in with an easy 1st 10 weeks. Last 7 weeks you went to water when things got tough. The real Essendon.

Winning = soft draw, sucked in
Losing = the real Essendon, went to water

Simpleton.

 

[Shadeeq]

Maybe because he was making a point you had the easiest first 10 games, not first half of the season. Are you really that stupid?

And my point was that North had the easier draw in the first half of the year. I think he chose the first ten games only to suit his weak argument. Deal with it.

 

[mufassa]

Winning = soft draw, sucked in
Losing = the real Essendon, went to water

Simpleton.

The soft draw made you look better than what you really were. The harder draw was too much for you too handle and you crumbled. 11th is where your club is at.

 

[mufassa]

And my point was that North had the easier draw in the first half of the year. I think he chose the first ten games only to suit his weak argument. Deal with it.

Lol - you are stupid. 117

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

The soft draw made you look better than what you really were. The harder draw was too much for you too handle and you crumbled. 11th is where your club is at.

The soft draw made you look better than you really were. Finals was too much for you too handle and you crumbled. A 16 goal finals exit is where your club is at.

 

[mufassa]

And my point was that North had the easier draw in the first half of the year. I think he chose the first ten games only to suit his weak argument. Deal with it.

How about this? The 1st 10 weeks Essendon had the softest draw on the AFL. The first 11 weeks they had the 2nd softest draw in the AFL. Happy now??

 

[mufassa]

The soft draw made you look better than you really were. Finals was too much for you too handle and you crumbled. A 16 goal finals exit is where your club is at.

8th is above average - 11th is below average. Did you know I tipped Essendon to finish 11th at the start of the year because you are below average? Interesting

 

[Shadeeq]

Lol - you are stupid. 117

HAHA what a moron both teams are on 120 after the first half of the season. Owned by your own stupid and simplistic system

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

8th is above average - 11th is below average. Did you know I tipped Essendon to finish 11th at the start of the year because you are below average? Interesting

8th, the new benchmark.

Is a 16 goal spanking above average?