Nilma Darnum

[Surkin]

Article in the gazette says that they only have 22 senior players at this stage and will be unlikely to field a reserves team and may even have to fold.

I know you're not involved down there any more plugger but what is going on? A lot of people will be quick to stick the knife in and say I told you so about spending all that money on players but it would be a real shame to see that happen to a club so soon after winning a flag.

 

[Pluggeroo]

I could say what I think is wrong there, mate but that might just be a little bit of anger flowing over from a complete lack of effort from a lot of people at that club last year.

It is a matter of Public knowledge that the club was very financial as at the 2010 AGM. The most financial that I have seen in my time at the club, and the club, although light on numbers in a couple of the junior grades fielded 5 football teams and 6 netball teams in 2010.

To be honest, I have been labeled a poacher and have not been back to the club since I walked out after I handed the chair over at the AGM, nor do I think, am I welcome back there. Ironic given the players that have been "poached" to play at Darnum over the last 4 years. Even more ironic given Allan Chandler plays cicket with Chris Weller and I have no social contact with him what-so-ever.

Last year's President, Treasurer and Junior Vice President have all gone. Their Best and Fairest has gone to Newborough and Matthew Olney to Narre Warren. I think Poison has gone to Cowwar and I am completely unaware of what has transpired since last October within the club.

I suggested that the "senior" and "junior" club be combined so the senior body be more in touch with the juniors. The committee took this on board. I also suggested that the club put a Junior Coordinator in place (paid position that was advertised) and the last I heard the position hasnt been filled. So a plan was left in place but whether the new committee has taken it to the next step, I have no idea.

I have basically severed all ties with the club, other than to catch up with Patto either on the phone or over lunch.

It would be a shame if the club were to wind up. It is still close to my heart, however too much has gone on in the last 16 months for me to return. I wish them luck.

 

[bigpapagman]

na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey......

 

[Saint]

Doesn't sound like juniors is the problem, Plugger.

If this is true, it only fulfills the destiny tipped by many posters about the unsustainable nature of how Nilma went about winning the flag and led them on this path.

Sounds like a bit of finger pointing at the latest committee who would have been in a pretty poor position. Money doesn't and can't replace the spirit of a good local club. That spirit was removed when a team of outsiders came and won a flag and promptly left.

Everybody knows the value of juniors, but what future was there for the juniors at Nilma when the kids watched all the juniors who had gone before them pushed into the ressies or out of the teams by imports.

It's a delicate balancing act, but Nilma obviously went too far.

I hope the flag was worth it. Somehow it 10 or 20 years time when the kids and people of Nilma are driving to Warragul to watch/play football and netball I reckon they'll agree that it wasn't.

 

[Nugget1985]

I understand your points Saint but what were Nilma to do?? Languish at the bottom for ten or so years and hope there juniors were the players that brought the clubs the highs it is after!!

They had an enormous crack at it and won a flag, I understand that it is a massive drop off but eventually the reason that the club is in the position it is now is probably due to more factors like its location and theoretically having no town base to pull from.

I know alot of EDFL clubs pull players from the stronger leagues in the south eastern area, obvioulsy because of its location Nilma can't compete with the other clubs for these players (unless you probably pay alot of cash) and when you compare the talent pool from Moe/Warragul area to the whole of South Eastern Melbourne it is no match. This combined with the fact they have no real town base apart from warragul would hurt them massively.

You hate seeing clubs go under but drawing the comparison to the reason behind this is the winning of the flag is a bit short sighted.

 

[stinger2]

I hope the flag was worth it. Somehow in 10 or 20 years time when the kids and people of Nilma are driving to Warragul to watch/play football and netball I reckon they'll agree that it wasn't.[/quote]

This is the whole point in a nutshell! Aggressively buying a flag and being so shortsighted about it may have sent an entire football club and years of history down the gurglar for what?

And Nugget, your kidding arent you. Think i would have rathered finishing in the bottom half that year and still be able to go on for years to come.

 

[Surkin]

No one is saying they had to languish at the bottom of the ladder. Look at the way Cora Lynn and Nar Nar Goon have gone about it recently and before them Catani and Nyora. They have all bought in a number of recruits but at the same time have not bought in so many that their juniors and local players have not had a chance to play senior football and develop as necessary.

It goes without saying now that to win an EDFL premiership or even compete with the top 3 or 4 you have to do some level of recruiting. Looking at the clubs the number of recruits needed is somewhere between 6 and 10. Ideally these recruits need to be people who are willing to get involved with things around the club and need to be integrated over a 2-3 year period.

That's where I reckon Nilma went wrong. They seemed to get in a heap of players for the one season instead of getting 5 or 6 players who were going to stick around for a while that they could try to build a club around.

 

[Nugget1985]

I hope the flag was worth it. Somehow in 10 or 20 years time when the kids and people of Nilma are driving to Warragul to watch/play football and netball I reckon they'll agree that it wasn't.

This is the whole point in a nutshell! Aggressively buying a flag and being so shortsighted about it may have sent an entire football club and years of history down the gurglar for what?

And Nugget, your kidding arent you. Think i would have rathered finishing in the bottom half that year and still be able to go on for years to come.[/quote]

You might mate but where does it end?? Where is the enjoyment and success for the people that do it year after year and see no results for it.

What else are they to do? Watch as the other clubs get stronger and bring in players as they wai tfor there players to just show up and turn good??

They went out paid players and won a flag, they struggled for numbers before this according to plugger and they struggled for numbers after then, it wasn't like they lost players because they were successful and everyone walked out it was only the paid players that left. Sure when they recruited the players from Sale etc they knew they would lose them and it wasn't a long term solution but who knows when you start playing players as to there longevity.

It is also interesting to look at what there up against! A raft of clubs in the EDFL that recruit players from higher leagues in the melbourne area, I bet you don't condemn Cora Lynn when they have a high turnover of players but are reguarly at the top of the ladder. Nilma are up against it in the EDFL because of two major factors, location and no town, this they cannot fix.

Who is to say also that instead of winning the flag in 2009 that they bought in four or five players climbed three or four spots on the ladder and then these players stayed, if they left they would be in the same position as now.

You take the chance when you can. Of course that is my opinion but I do believe that the issue for where they are at as a club is deeper and not the primary fault of the 2009 season.

 

[Nugget1985]

No one is saying they had to languish at the bottom of the ladder. Look at the way Cora Lynn and Nar Nar Goon have gone about it recently and before them Catani and Nyora. They have all bought in a number of recruits but at the same time have not bought in so many that their juniors and local players have not had a chance to play senior football and develop as necessary.

It goes without saying now that to win an EDFL premiership or even compete with the top 3 or 4 you have to do some level of recruiting. Looking at the clubs the number of recruits needed is somewhere between 6 and 10. Ideally these recruits need to be people who are willing to get involved with things around the club and need to be integrated over a 2-3 year period.

That's where I reckon Nilma went wrong. They seemed to get in a heap of players for the one season instead of getting 5 or 6 players who were going to stick around for a while that they could try to build a club around.

That is my point!

How were they to do that? When the better players from Moe play in the Mid Gippsland and the better players from Warragul and South Eastern Melbourne are being offered similar services from other EDFL clubs without less travel!!

To be successful they had to recruit players from far and wide, this is a risk and ultimately led to short term success, no one wants to travel an hour and a half three times a week for a game of footy one year bar three or four.

 

[Saint]

They brought in a whole team, not just 5 or 6, they left no room to develop younger players within the senior team. Sure they might not have had the local players to do that, but that's life.

To say Nilma doesn't have a town is a bit ridiculous when you look at 3 recent Premiers, Cora Lynn, Catani and Nyora having smaller towns that the combined Nilma/Darnum area. None of those 3 even has a pub. Plus they've got a junior club.

They should have accepted that they couldn't build a sustainable premiership team just yet and developed their juniors alongside a few paid players(but not a full team). And eventually the juniors would come through the ranks and work their way into the senior side.

THe whole purpose of a football club is to play football and netball and have a good social and physical activity to bring people together. Winning a premiership is the goal of each team within the club, but the club itself should aim to remain a place for people to gather and play sport together.

The win a premiership at any cost has cost them their club, perhaps (though I really doubt they'll fold, but know nothing about it).

Look at Lang Lang, am I right in saying they haven't won a premiership in a long time, but the people still all love playing sport together over there.

Sure nugget, you have to pay slightly more for people to travel further, but as stated earlier, money isn't the problem.

Your definition of successful (i.e winning a premiership) is different to mine (working hard as a club to be sustainable and have a crack at premierships when the cycle comes around).

 

[Nugget1985]

The other towns you have mentioned are also located alot closer to areas that Nilma cannot access for players. You can't be the furtherest town away and one of the smallest towns too and expect 500 people to prop up your football club year after year with good junior players and expect success.

I am not disputing that they bought a team in, what other option did they have if it was thought to win a premiership? Try for players around the areas that the other EDFL clubs are pulling players from despite being one of the furtherest?? Then hoping they stick around for a while?? Despite the fact they can play closer to "home".

Theoretically the club could have done it in a different fashion, What I am saying is that if they wanted premiership success they had no other options to do it the way they did but I don't think the fact they won a premiership in 2009 is there only downfall as you suggest.

Due to a number of factors location and also size of town I just think it was matter of time before the EDFL chewed them up and spat them out regardless of whether they won that flag or not.

For the record I don't deem success as winning premierships it is just a part of it, I believe it is having a strong financial club that supports its junior players and provides a safe and happy environment.

 

[Saint]

Your whole argument is a contradiction. We can't get players because of our location and size so we brought in a whole teams worth of players.

Maybe if you'd brought in 10 players maximum and hoped that over a number of years they would develop the rest of the club, that wouldn't have forced a lot of other people away who are now desperately needed.

What you've got now is a premiership flag, a strong financial club and nobody to enjoy it. Perhaps on Saturday afternoons the 10 people left can sit in the club rooms and look at the premiership flag, maybe watch the DVD of people who spent a year or two at the place and they probably barely spoke to.

 

[thisisaname]

maybe a move to the mid gippy league could be an option in the future?

 

[Pluggeroo]

This is not new for the Nilma Darnum FC. 1996 was another year the club almost folded.

I think the biggest problem with this discussion is that none of you know the problems that arose throughout the 2009 season with regard to the coach's tenure and the tension within the coaching panel from about round 12, onwards. If I was the kind to do it, I could probably write a novel on the issues this club has faced both pre-2007 and since.

The other thing we also forget is that in the 2006 season, Nilma Darnum lost every game by and average of 144 points. Saint, you may have even played in the 46-22-298 to 4-6-30 de-craniumisation over us. The way you blokes treated us that day, we nearly folded right then and there. It isnt fun losing. It certainly isnt fun getting belted like that. We had to beg the players to turn up the following week. We had 1 win in 40 or more games.

Bearing that in mind, here are some questions:

1. How do you attract players to a club with results like that? Even if its for the 3 or so years you say might help the juniors through.

2. How do you retain the juniors and encourage them to play through to the seniors when they see those seniors getting smashed every week?

Chicken and egg stuff, really.

This was simply unsustainable. I remember that at least 8 players were playing Seniors after playing a full game in the Reserves. The club was on a hiding to nothing.

We have always had strong juniors, up until about 2005-06. The biggest problem with those guys is that the Warragul's, Ellinbank's, Yarragon's, Drouin's, Trafalgar's of the world seemed to be able to pinch one from here, and one from there and before we knew it, this success through the juniors was not being realised in the seniors. It was nothing that we could put our finger on.

The pople in charge just continued to clear them in the hope they would one day return. One junior (I originally had his name but decided against it) is a classic example of the mentality of some families within the club. As a 16 year old, he wanted to go to Drouin or Warragul (cant remember which). His father stood firm and said the lad was playing at Darnum. His mother signed the clearance. Ironically she fronted up at the next meeting and said the club should have done more to keep her son there. Go figure. And they are still at the club, but their son plays at Warragul after a stint at Nyah.

Players that leave, never come back. Kael Bergles is probably one exception I can think of.

The problems at Darnum extend far beyond the playing group, of any season. Go back prior to the premiership and see if my story has changed. The only thing that has changed is that Darnum won a premiership. The rest is still the same.

All this talk of the club being where it is because someone helped the club to a flag is absolute nonsense. The fact is, if Andrew Patterson hadn't jumped on board when he did, the club would have been dead in 2007, let alone winning a premiership in 2009. Approaches were made to other clubs with regards to a merger during the season in 2005 or 2006 with talks falling down. How many of you would do what he did if your club was in the same dire situation as Darnum, and had the means to help?

Going by your responses here, you would allow your clubs to fold.

 

[saint leo]

The other towns you have mentioned are also located alot closer to areas that Nilma cannot access for players. You can't be the furtherest town away and one of the smallest towns too and expect 500 people to prop up your football club year after year with good junior players and expect success.

I am not disputing that they bought a team in, what other option did they have if it was thought to win a premiership? Try for players around the areas that the other EDFL clubs are pulling players from despite being one of the furtherest?? Then hoping they stick around for a while?? Despite the fact they can play closer to "home".

Theoretically the club could have done it in a different fashion, What I am saying is that if they wanted premiership success they had no other options to do it the way they did but I don't think the fact they won a premiership in 2009 is there only downfall as you suggest.

Due to a number of factors location and also size of town I just think it was matter of time before the EDFL chewed them up and spat them out regardless of whether they won that flag or not.

For the record I don't deem success as winning premierships it is just a part of it, I believe it is having a strong financial club that supports its junior players and provides a safe and happy environment.

Piss weak excuses by Darnum. Nyora is smaller town and further away from anywhere. We have had blokes drive from narre/berwick etc and play 200 senior games for the clubs. Drive past about 6 clubs to get there, why? Cos the culture we built over 10 years that won us 2 flags, not the 300k we spent in 1 year with a committee that for the most were prob only there for 1 think.

We also had to put up with a raid on our players by another piss weak club called korumburra.

 

[Pluggeroo]

In fairness Leo, Nugget isnt from Darnum. You guys have one club raiding senior players that have helped your club. Darnum have 5-6 clubs raiding its juniors every year, even before they have a chance to have an impact.

I actually read the article today and things arent quite the way they are reported there, I dont think.

Its not an ideal situation that the club finds itself in at this point in time, however the paper is an over-reaction from what I was told today.

 

[Pluggeroo]

maybe a move to the mid gippy league could be an option in the future?

Different league, same problems. Moving leagues wont be the answer because the demographic issues wont change.

Mid Gippy would, under no circumstances allow an 11th team in, unless the VCFL forced it and we all know how much tooth they have.

 

[Nugget1985]

The problems at Darnum extend far beyond the playing group, of any season. Go back prior to the premiership and see if my story has changed. The only thing that has changed is that Darnum won a premiership. The rest is still the same.

All this talk of the club being where it is because someone helped the club to a flag is absolute nonsense. The fact is, if Andrew Patterson hadn't jumped on board when he did, the club would have been dead in 2007, let alone winning a premiership in 2009. Approaches were made to other clubs with regards to a merger during the season in 2005 or 2006 with talks falling down. How many of you would do what he did if your club was in the same dire situation as Darnum, and had the means to help?


Didn't want to quote it all but this is what I was saying without ever being involved at the club.

The premiership changed nothing at all it did was probably hide the problems that did exist.

As Plugger said I am not from darnum but I think it is short sighted to suggest the 2009 premiership was the only thing that ruined it all.

 

[Saint]

We were on the end of floggings to Buln and other sides, even worse when I was a junior at Nyora, but the culture of the place was such that I would drive the 1.5 hours every 2nd day to be there and eventually it turned around and we had success.

Did you just hope the locals would return, or did you offer them incentives?

A lot of it is luck and a lot of it is hard work over a number of years. Not saying Nilma weren't working hard, but if they'd kept at it, I'm sure it would have turned around.

How many ex-juniors were approached when the side was strong and looking towards winning a flag, how much emphasis was placed on locals over imports?

 

[saint leo]

In fairness Leo, Nugget isnt from Darnum. You guys have one club raiding senior players that have helped your club. Darnum have 5-6 clubs raiding its juniors every year, even before they have a chance to have an impact.

I actually read the article today and things arent quite the way they are reported there, I dont think.

Its not an ideal situation that the club finds itself in at this point in time, however the paper is an over-reaction from what I was told today.

They also poach our good juniors too, its a challenge every year to keep out best kids as Korumburra just want to win junior GF's every year. They have 30 kids at training and still take our best ones, disgraceful club full of averages senior footballers and even worse blokes though up there.

Mate i have said before I could see this happening but hope they can work it out and I am sure they will. This happened to darnum about 10 years ago and they went and found about 10 twos players in a week somehow.

Saint is a great example of the culture of a club. Played about 6 years in the seniors driving from melbourne by himself for much less cash than he could have got. The clown just loved it too much, guess we were lucky the guys we had but thats also part of the smart recruiting. Recruit blokes who have some connection to the club, friends, family etc, more likely to stick around.

 

[Pluggeroo]

Saint, all ex juniors still in the area were approached when Sinclair came to the club, including Aaron Rhodes, the Ried boys, Steve Tumino, Josh Milner (whom the club continued to talk to, even last year, only to reject a reasonable offer for a bloke that hadnt played a senior game and accept an offer to join Nyah. His parents were huge fans of Sinclair and even though Brad had spoken to Milner throughout his 3 year tenure, he still refused to sign. They maintained to me all last year that if Brad were to coach this year that Josh would be back. Well, Brad is coaching again and Josh is back from Nyah, alright. He signed with Warragul last week. His parents are still working at the club.

We managed to get Rhett O'Hara back and Kael, but the rest had either retired or weren't interested. The Berry boys were continuously asked, to the point that they wouldnt even come to the games anymore.

O'Hara, of course, went to Dusties last year and as President, it ripped my guts out. We offered him a substantial pay rise and the captaincy of the club yet he still walked. He is a product of the juniors and after explaining to him that he would lead the next generation of players at Darnum and now he had the chance to create his own history, he walked away.

There is a lot to be said about the quality of person when you talk about footballers and Im not talking about Rhett here because I believe he is a quality person. By leaving (again) he exaserbated the problem rather than being involved in part of the solution. Again, his parents came to meetings and asked why the club wasnt doing more to keep their juniors, right after signing the clearance for Rhett's younger brothers.

Darnum's dominant juniors were a phalicy.

In reality, each of those dominant sides had 2-3 players that were better than average and they were able to win flags. The reality is that those teams would be smashed by the Goon or other sides in today's footy because those teams have 10-12 quality players in their teams.

Ben Hughes, Jeff + John Reid, Aaron Rhodes, Steve Tumino. All good names but ultimately, one man bands that were hard to stop on their day. Looking through the premiership photos on the wall at the club, most of their team-mates dont even play footy anymore and gave it away after juniors because it was serious stuff then and the seniors were getting belted.

Those blokes I mentioned have had the red carpet laid out to them year after year after year. They were held in high regard when they were at Darnum, to the point of being on shoulders and they still walked away. I dont know what more the club can do. But I'm not there anymore and I wish them luck. I had my turn last year and lost 16 Premiership players and 10 reserves players. Not through lack of trying or money, I can tell you. What a record.

Last year, all juniors were given club jackets and sports bags with the club logo on them. Patto paid for socks for all the kids. This has all occurred at one time or another over the years, but still to no avail.

Debbie Tyson is in charge there now and maybe she has some new ideas because after 16 years, I was all out. I wish them luck.

Sorry bout the long post. Could have filled a book, I reckon.

 

[Pluggeroo]

After watching a bit of Hill End V Lindenow yesterday, I wandered on down to Darnum and had a look at them play Springvale.

They looked alright and I watched 3 quarters. There would have been 8-10 new faces there and with a 6 quarter game they had about 10-12 on the bench. Mal was at his sister's wedding and a few others were playing/watching cricket. When I left they were a couple of goals up.

Looked to me like they were going to field a couple of teams, no problems. Had one fella from Papua New Guinea and there is another that the club is also sponsoring that wasn't there yesterday. He looks like a cracker of a find and should play senior footy.

Debbie Tyson said she had fielded about 200 phone calls since the article in the paper and the club will have some form of a rebuttal in the paper this week, hopefully, she said. The reporter that did the article is new at it and only 21. It's fair to say that he might have learned a pretty big lesson in turning a conversation with a guy involved with the juniors (its fair to say they are struggling for numbers, may not field a 3rds or 5ths) into a story about a club that may fold. Pretty damaging stuff when you report things that clearly arent true.

To be fair, Russell was beside himself with the way he was reported as well.

But from what I saw, they should win a few games and be pretty competitive throughout 2011. Good Luck to them!

 

[Surkin]

Did they win?

Springvale are a fairly ordinary side. 2nd division southern league which is the worst of all the metro leagues.

 

[Pluggeroo]

Dont know mate. They were up by a couple of goals when I left.

 

[Piezy]

I know a couple of blokes after hearing the club may fold that were keen to put the boots back on One being Ian Berry and the other Ben Gilliam who both played in there 3rds premierships. Dale Robinson is also back this year after a year off and should be very handy for them. Also would just like to say that we love having Scoona at the Dusties and can understand why they would miss him.