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- #26
You just have very poor understanding statistics. Nothing to have been proved. Lack of evidence is not proof that something doesn't exist.
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No evidence to support tanking.
- Thread starter A Living God
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Actually I do have a reasonable understanding of statistics. Perhaps I should have worded it differently:
You can find selected statistics to support almost any argument.
Obviously no one can ever "prove" that tanking does not happen. It is impossible to prove a negative. There are many things we cannot prove but we can still have a strong belief that they are or are not true. For example, I strongly believe that there is in fact a Living God but I also believe that you are not Him !!
Anyway, the fact is that many Carlton fans think their club tanked in 2007, many Melbourne fans think that their club tanked this year and many many fans think that other clubs including Collingwood, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, North and Essendon have acted suspiciously at times during the past decade.
We can't "prove" anything but when you see supporters cheering for the opposition and retired players saying they hope their team loses, you know that there is a problem regardless of what the AFL ostriches want you to think.
Theo Funk
Debutant
A quote from Damian Barrett in yesterdays Hun talking about Melbourne -
"All sorts of devious, questionable, even laughable tactics needed to be employed to ensure success in one of its apparent aims of the year - lose enough matches to stay below 18 premiership points"
I happened to witness a few of those laughable tactics and the positioning of James Frawley and Matthew Warnock to the forward line made me smile then the move of Miller to the ruck made me laugh!
As for other devious, questionable, even laughable tactics employed by the club over the last few rounds of the 2009 season - well for me, there are too many to mention.
At least they made the trip to the games interesting even laughable!!!!!
Number of priority picks we have received since the draft started: 0
The only dubious period was when we operated on people early in 2006 so they would be ready for an early pre-season, Laidley being the chameleon that he is just did what Collingwood did the year before and saw them do well the following year. The year after we made the top 4. It wasn't about not moving further up the ladder although that didn't hurt.
Shit teams lose games.
I think it is flattering to suggest that teams like Melbourne have some say in the outcome of a match.
I think it is flattering to suggest that teams like Melbourne have some say in the outcome of a match.
clogwearer
Idiot Savant
Yeah we've tanked horribly too.
1. Tank
2. Miss out on priority draft pick
3. ?????
4. Profit
But we do have your underpants.
North have never had a priority pick, but a couple of times I have noticed that as soon as they are out of finals contention, they drop like a stone and lose every match. 2001 was one example. They did not get a priority pick but they did get better picks than they otherwise might have.
There is nothing wrong with this (at least in the eyes of the AFL). All clubs "list manage" and the AFL condones and encourages it. Carlton and Melbourne have taken the practice to a whole new level where everyone can tell what their objective is, but the AFL turn a blind eye and pretend it does not exist.
The next club to be in Melbourne's position would be stupid NOT to take advantage of the situation.
invinciBlues
Norm Smith Medallist
No. A couple idiots who have no idea think we tanked. Those of us who have been supporting Carlton our whole lives know we didn't.
You can make your grand statements about "Carlton tanking", but don't drag the club's supporters into this. There is a long and winding road leading up to 2007 that you wouldn't have the foggiest about.
i don't think clubs or players ever go out wanting to lose - it happens when clubs selection policies become no longer about putting their best team on the park, which would probably always happen once finals are out of the question.
but it's such an ugly situation to see fans wanting their teams to lose, and there's so much negative publicity and innuendo about it.
i'd love to see priority picks done away with - there's no need for them at all as any club who turns over their lists and recruits well can rebuild to a premiership without early picks (as geelong, west coast and sydney did). and the draft order could be finalised at around the half way mark of the year - no side is going to tank while finals are still technically a possibility. you could even add prize money to the games after that point of the year to ensure clubs are still putting their best team on the park.
but it's such an ugly situation to see fans wanting their teams to lose, and there's so much negative publicity and innuendo about it.
i'd love to see priority picks done away with - there's no need for them at all as any club who turns over their lists and recruits well can rebuild to a premiership without early picks (as geelong, west coast and sydney did). and the draft order could be finalised at around the half way mark of the year - no side is going to tank while finals are still technically a possibility. you could even add prize money to the games after that point of the year to ensure clubs are still putting their best team on the park.
If you knew enough about statistics you would know that you don't have anywhere near a large enough data set to draw any sort of conclusion from, maybe in a 1000years you might
A lot of people forget that. I remember in 2004 the Hawks were 2-16 after 18 rounds, won 2 of our last 4 games which cost us number 1 pick, and people STILL said we tanked
Fact .. we were easily the worst team in the competition in 2004 and it was a miracle we won 4 games!!
I see your 2-16 and raise you Richmond's 14 consecutive defeats.
Forget the evidence. Do away with the priority pick and you remove the incentive. Case closed.
A lot of people forget that. I remember in 2004 the Hawks were 2-16 after 18 rounds, won 2 of our last 4 games which cost us number 1 pick, and people STILL said we tanked
!
I love these type of justifications - you won two games when it didn't matter and you still got the priority pick - 2 picks in the first 5.
Now if you'd won 4 of the last 4 games and missed the priority pick then I might accept you weren't tanking.
tony_montana
Cancelled
- Banned
- #40
A lot of people forget that. I remember in 2004 the Hawks were 2-16 after 18 rounds, won 2 of our last 4 games which cost us number 1 pick, and people STILL said we tanked
Fact .. we were easily the worst team in the competition in 2004 and it was a miracle we won 4 games!!
you still got the PP
which is what tanking is all about, its not about a race to get the number 1 pick(see Judd/selwood/franklin) its about getting 2 early picks. You, us and the bullies tanked in 04. You also tanked in 05 when we came back from 40 pts down to beat u in that nothing match 
Like RATD said, the easiest way to stop tanking full stop is to do away with the PP's. Teams have seen year after year that pick 2 or 5 or 7 can be just as good or better than the number 1 pick so clubs wont care about getting an extra rung in the draft order, they will however tank to get scully and trengove, who wouldnt?
Nearly all the Blues fans I know say that they tanked in 2007, that is why I said it. I would not make up such a statement.
Also, I followed the Blues story from 2002 to 2007 and I agree (with the Blues fans that I know, your view may be different) that the AFL were extraordinarily harsh on Carlton for their salary cap breaches while they treated Essendon with a much softer touch.
As I said earlier, we as fans may hate the practice but the fact is that if a club near the bottom wants to win a flag in this generation then they would be stupid NOT to tank under the current rules.
