No more concussion insurance

[Philhawk]

‘Alarm bells’ for AFL after insurance giant pulls players’ ‘safety net’ amid $1m payouts

‘Alarm bells’ for AFL after insurance giant pulls players’ ‘safety net’ amid $1m payouts

www.foxsports.com.au

Surprised this isn’t bigger news.

This is incredibly alarming. Surely the AFL themselves step in.

 

[jim boy]

AFL cant really afford to step in and take this on without change. I'm not sure who else insures against concussion, but you can bet they'll all pull out if nothing changes. If they don't think the AFL is doing enough, they will conclude that insuring against concussion is a loss-making exercise. If they aren't making money, they cut their losses and move on.

This will hit hard. AFL recognise that concussion is a risk and with all risks you address through the following options:

1. Avoid (e.g. stop playing footy)
2. Mitigate (e.g. introduce rules to lessen likelihood and consequence)
3. Transfer (e.g. Insure)
4. Accept (e.g. Say it is is a physical sport and you may get hurt and if so, tough)

Options 1 and 4 were never really realistic, so the AFL has been relying on a combination of Mitigate and Transfer to deal with concussion risk. With Insurance gone, the AFL will be forced to introduce stronger mitigations, these could include things like:

• If you concuss another player or even perform a dangerous action, regardless of whether it is a football act or not - you are gone for two weeks.
• Cutting the interchange bench entirely so players get tired and bumps are lessened
• Banning of tackling in training or any actions containing risk

At that point the AFL can afford to cover the still significant, but less frequent payouts

 

[The Feeder Club]

As far as I know boxers, MMA fighters etc can get insurance. There are specific high risk insurance policies that cover these sports. Why wouldn't they cover AFL? A precondition would need to be players admit and accept, like combat sports participants do, that they are engaged in a high risk pursuit.
The problem is the AFL is trying to boost participation and fraudulently present the sport to mums and dads as low risk, when it isn't. It's a high risk sport.
That doesn't mean it has to be a free-for-all. Some mitigation strategies are sensible and don't interfere with the essence of the sport. But you can't mitigate all risk away and still call it Aussie Rules. You accept the sport has those risks, be upfront about them to participants and their parents, pay to insure as a high risk sport accordingly, and accept that your participation rates will drop off depending on individual risk tolerance of those (mainly) parents.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

If the won't suspend Maynard for what he did to Brayshaw, why would anyone give insurance.

 

[Philhawk]

As far as I know boxers, MMA fighters etc can get insurance. There are specific high risk insurance policies that cover these sports. Why wouldn't they cover AFL? A precondition would need to be players admit and accept, like combat sports participants do, that they are engaged in a high risk pursuit.
The problem is the AFL is trying to boost participation and fraudulently present the sport to mums and dads as low risk, when it isn't. It's a high risk sport.
That doesn't mean it has to be a free-for-all. Some mitigation strategies are sensible and don't interfere with the essence of the sport. But you can't mitigate all risk away and still call it Aussie Rules. You accept the sport has those risks, be upfront about them to participants and their parents, pay to insure as a high risk sport accordingly, and accept that your participation rates will drop off depending on individual risk tolerance of those (mainly) parents.

To the point made by Jim Boy above, I wonder if they think the AFL isn’t doing enough.

 

[Breretonisahood]

If the won't suspend Maynard for what he did to Brayshaw, why would anyone give insurance.

Every time the MRO/tribunal let something like Maynard, Cameron (good bloke award) and Cameron again (error of law through tribunal incompetence) go through to the keeper they drive another nail into the coffin burying their ability to get concussion insurance at a reasonable cost.

 

[The Feeder Club]

To the point made by Jim Boy above, I wonder if they think the AFL isn’t doing enough.

Maybe, but if a sport like boxing can insure it's fighters and survive when the actual primary aim of the sport is to cause concussion, AFL can survive. I suggest the difference is the AFL chooses to mislead the public to try and reassure them it's a safe sport and get as many little Jacks and Jills playing as possible

 

[basashi]

Maybe, but if a sport like boxing can insure it's fighters and survive when the actual primary aim of the sport is to cause concussion, AFL can survive. I suggest the difference is the AFL chooses to mislead the public to try and reassure them it's a safe sport and get as many little Jacks and Jills playing as possible

We know the league is only ever going to pay lip service to the real issue. Future brain safety initiatives are going to be just as pissweak as the existing ones. This makes it more important to invest in false narratives and argument in order to deceive all the mums and dads. If they cannot be be tricked into handing their kids over to the local Aussie rules clubs then the game will shrink. Kids will be herded to soccer and basketball.

Given the league's lack of commitment to the issue, the biggest enemy of the game is the truth. They need to fight the truth now, not later.

 

[Sttew]

‘Alarm bells’ for AFL after insurance giant pulls players’ ‘safety net’ amid $1m payouts

‘Alarm bells’ for AFL after insurance giant pulls players’ ‘safety net’ amid $1m payouts

www.foxsports.com.au

Surprised this isn’t bigger news.

This is incredibly alarming. Surely the AFL themselves step in.

The OP title is misleading. It's not that there's no insurance, it's just that one insurer - not even the AFL's primary liability insurer - is pulling the pin. There will always be a market for any insurance cover at Lloyds of London, but it may be super expensive, i.e., with huge deductible for concussion.

 

[Robroy22]

We know the league is only ever going to pay lip service to the real issue. Future brain safety initiatives are going to be just as pissweak as the existing ones. This makes it more important to invest in false narratives and argument in order to deceive all the mums and dads. If they cannot be be tricked into handing their kids over to the local Aussie rules clubs then the game will shrink. Kids will be herded to soccer and basketball.

Given the league's lack of commitment to the issue, the biggest enemy of the game is the truth. They need to fight the truth now, not later.

Surely a sport that requires heading a ball and therefore many many more head to head clashes must have it's own concussion issues. It's just that the big leagues EPL, FINA etc... have lots more $$$ to fight off the litigators.

Athletes just need to sign the disclaimers that they enter into any sport knowing that there are risks involved. I mean how many gymnasts, divers, skateboarders, cyclists, equestrians, boxers, pole-vaulters, and surfers are or were injured this year at the Olympics?? or in the lead up events.

It's legalism gone mad. If you choose to participate in sport (or life) stuff can happen.

 

[simba_]

no matter what happens with rule changes, they will always get a player off if it suits their agenda

 

[Philhawk]

The OP title is misleading. It's not that there's no insurance, it's just that one insurer - not even the AFL's primary liability insurer - is pulling the pin. There will always be a market for any insurance cover at Lloyds of London, but it may be super expensive, i.e., with huge deductible for concussion.

I’m not sure if this is correct. Insurance companies usually play “follow the leader” and I’d imagine if one starts cracking down, they all will.

 

[Philhawk]

Surely a sport that requires heading a ball and therefore many many more head to head clashes must have it's own concussion issues. It's just that the big leagues EPL, FINA etc... have lots more $$$ to fight off the litigators.

Athletes just need to sign the disclaimers that they enter into any sport knowing that there are risks involved. I mean how many gymnasts, divers, skateboarders, cyclists, equestrians, boxers, pole-vaulters, and surfers are or were injured this year at the Olympics?? or in the lead up events.

It's legalism gone mad. If you choose to participate in sport (or life) stuff can happen.

If only it were that simple, though. Every construction site could easily ask the same thing of their employees, but accidents happen and employees are entitled to compensation.

 

[Gunf]

Surely a sport that requires heading a ball and therefore many many more head to head clashes must have it's own concussion issues. It's just that the big leagues EPL, FINA etc... have lots more $$$ to fight off the litigators.

Athletes just need to sign the disclaimers that they enter into any sport knowing that there are risks involved. I mean how many gymnasts, divers, skateboarders, cyclists, equestrians, boxers, pole-vaulters, and surfers are or were injured this year at the Olympics?? or in the lead up events.

It's legalism gone mad. If you choose to participate in sport (or life) stuff can happen.

In theory this is nice but in no world would the AFLPA agree to this and without players we have no AFL.

 

[basashi]

Surely a sport that requires heading a ball and therefore many many more head to head clashes must have it's own concussion issues. It's just that the big leagues EPL, FINA etc... have lots more $$$ to fight off the litigators.

Athletes just need to sign the disclaimers that they enter into any sport knowing that there are risks involved. I mean how many gymnasts, divers, skateboarders, cyclists, equestrians, boxers, pole-vaulters, and surfers are or were injured this year at the Olympics?? or in the lead up events.

It's legalism gone mad. If you choose to participate in sport (or life) stuff can happen.

What legal weight does the disclaimer hold? Who signs it and at what age? What information is given to them before they sign it?

The league is not free to be negligent and then just tell the players to sign something.

You are right that soccer (it is well established that soccer is a stupid game) has its own issues. But claims experience would suggest it is less serious.

 

[basashi]

I’m not sure if this is correct. Insurance companies usually play “follow the leader” and I’d imagine if one starts cracking down, they all will.

At the retail level yes but there are always markets that will put a price on most but not all things.

 

[Sttew]

I’m not sure if this is correct. Insurance companies usually play “follow the leader” and I’d imagine if one starts cracking down, they all will.

I don’t profess to be the expert but I have worked in this area for many years and know risks that local insurers won't touch - and over recent years there have been many - will invariably end up in the London market which has long attracted 'hard to place risks'.

As I said in my last post there will always be a market for insurance. It's up to a broker to find it.

For something like concussion, you may find an insurer saying 'we will cover it but make it subject to certain conditions including a sizable deductible. That way the party insured has "skin in the game"

 

[Saucery]

"There will always be a market for insurance. It's up to a broker to find it."

Try telling that to so many folks who can't get flood or fire insurance anymore. Or festival organizers for that matter. The insurance industry is changing fast and becoming far more resistant to risk than ever before as their overall payouts recently have spooked the industry. Sports are a small part of their markets and as they look to keep up with a rapidly changing world high risk areas are just being let go as collateral damage. Some insurance isn't worth the paper it's written on, remember the banking royal commission? And they are blue chip insurers, good luck to you finding a firm that will reliably pay out from the lower tier options.