Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[Nifft]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trade-2022-why-sending-josh-dunkley-to-the-preseason-draft-wont-work-for-the-bulldogs/news-story/e3b585f40ff94e2ccce394250f94d3ce

 

[Westlo]

Impressed by Hawks going the tank. Should be what we’re doing.

Yep, worst thing we can do is continue the cycle of making the 8, getting belted, having a shit follow up season (after being talked up as top 4) and losing a coach, repeat.

Just being a treadmill team, it's hell.

Imagine adding Harley Reid and +1 (Curtain, Duursma, Watson, the other Reid etc) if Parish left to go with Wardlaw/Tsatas, 2xDaveys, Munkara, Hobbs, Cox, Perkins and Reid.

We got ****ed in not able to double dip into top 5 talent twice when the rules changed with priority picks which enabled some teams to win, you can't really slingshot these days.

So glad Collingwood ****ed up a few years so much because Daicos & Callaghan would've been like that.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Yep, worst thing we can do is continue the cycle of making the 8, getting belted, having a s**t follow up season (after being talked up as top 4) and losing a coach, repeat.

Just being a treadmill team, it's hell.

The worst part about the frequent coaching turnover, is they come in and say I’ll give everyone a chance under me. Proceed to get that first year under a new coach boost in performance, meaning we never get the big list cut we actually need to make ground.

 

[eth-dog]

The worst part about the frequent coaching turnover, is they come in and say I’ll give everyone a chance under me. Proceed to get that first year under a new coach boost in performance, meaning we never get the big list cut we actually need to make ground.

Assuming Ham gets cut, since the 2020 season we'll have 19 players that were on the list next year as we had that year. Of those, four were drafted the previous year.

We've had a massive list turnover over the past few seasons. To say otherwise is just crazy.

 

[BrunoV]

Impressed by Hawks going the tank. Should be what we’re doing.

I doubt their performances will drop off too much.

See earlier post today.

Meek is a really good get. Between him and Reeves they've got 2 really solid rucks to protect the mids to the extent they need it.

Stephens has a lot of tools and will be 4th year. Jury's out. The midfield doesn't have to be sexy, just hard working, mobile and strong.

Defence will be rock solid. Loss of Gunston will hurt but they got little out of Brockman this year. Kosi also struggled for time.

 

[citizen-erased]

Hawks v Roos for pick 1 next year.
Suspect a handful of factors will bump us up -> soft draw, Parish contract year + new coach bump.

Hawks midfield - Newc + Ward + ?
Roos still don't have much of a backline or forward line.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Impressed by Hawks going the tank. Should be what we’re doing.

Completely disagree.

Feel this will end up disastrously for them.

The last 15 years is littered with examples of teams cutting far too deep for no reward, North the most recent example.

 

[Lore]

 

[citizen-erased]

Shiels too

How many games of experience is that out?

Amon/Impey on the wings with a midfield of Newc, Ward, Maginnes.
what else they got?

 

[windyhill]

Impressed by Hawks going the tank. Should be what we’re doing.

The only interest in their games for the next few years is to watch sicily and frost consistently lose their minds.

 

[Lore]

Shiels too

How many games of experience is that out?

Amon/Impey on the wings with a midfield of Newc, Ward, Maginnes.
what else they got?

This is handy:

Hawthorn Playing List for 2022 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Once the last batch of trades have been updated over there so O'Meara and Mitchell removed, Meek added etc it should have some preliminary analysis here:

AFL Club Lists for 2023 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[The Prosecutor]

Shiels too

How many games of experience is that out?

Amon/Impey on the wings with a midfield of Newc, Ward, Maginnes.
what else they got?

They have gutted 8/14 players 25+ in one off season.

The only players that have turned 25 on their list are

Luke Bruest
Chad Wingard
Sam Frost
James Sicily
Jarmen Impey
Blake Hardwick

I'm convinced they have ballsed this up.

 

[Lore]

They have gutted 8/14 players 25+ in one off season.

The only players that have turned 25 on their list are

Luke Bruest
Chad Wingard
Sam Frost
James Sicily
Jarmen Impey
Blake Hardwick

I'm convinced they have ballsed this up.

In amongst all the other garbage today there was a clip of Matthew Lloyd talking about cutting too deep on a list. He mentioned that towards the end of his career it felt like that had happened at Essendon, and he was saying it wasn't great as a senior player but it's also not great for the kids either, even though they get more opportunities they don't have enough appropriate people to turn to for advice or help protect them a bit during games. If I ever find it again I'll post it somewhere

 

[RedmanWasHere]

They have gutted 8/14 players 25+ in one off season.

The only players that have turned 25 on their list are

Luke Bruest
Chad Wingard
Sam Frost
James Sicily
Jarmen Impey
Blake Hardwick

I'm convinced they have ballsed this up.

Plus Karl Amon.

 

[Sporno 4 Pyros]

Karl Amon

10

Karl Amon

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

294.5

4star

D

21.0

5star

K

15.0

5star

HB

6.0

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

146.8

3star

must be having a serious case of buyers remorse

 

[citizen-erased]

In amongst all the other garbage today there was a clip of Matthew Lloyd talking about cutting too deep on a list. He mentioned that towards the end of his career it felt like that had happened at Essendon, and he was saying it wasn't great as a senior player but it's also not great for the kids either, even though they get more opportunities they don't have enough appropriate people to turn to for advice or help protect them a bit during games. If I ever find it again I'll post it somewhere

yeah

i think you need to be careful with it, and probably why we weren't so keen for Heppell/Phillips to go & the role for Hurley off-field.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Completely disagree.

Feel this will end up disastrously for them.

The last 15 years is littered with examples of teams cutting far too deep for no reward, North the most recent example.

Still gotta nail your choices. Take Hollands instead of Phillips and they are in a great place right now. Would be able to slide into Cadman and their build would be complete bar time. Even if they lost JHF for Ports first and future. Take Humphrey or Busslinger and then it’s just a matter of time.

Would definitely trade 3-4 years of being absolutely terrible with a chance at building something great rather than the mediocre 20 years we’ve had doing everything but tank.

 

[Ati Tude]

Here is their 2023 leadership group

 

[Lore]

yeah

i think you need to be careful with it, and probably why we weren't so keen for Heppell/Phillips to go & the role for Hurley off-field.

It's certainly a reason I was very happy that Hurley stayed. Bringing Cloke in as well, even though he's VFLW head coach he's also supposed to have a development role with the AFL group. That stuff is important, especially if you don't have those attributes on your playing list. A group like Geelong has a built in player development team so they can spend that footy department soft-cap cash on strategists or whatever instead.


Makes me wonder actually. All the talk about draftees requesting trades and clubs being under resourced/not paying their cap minimums/can't attract free agents etc. What if the money you don't spend on player salaries was able to be used to off-set any additional spending in the footy department?

So basically the player salaries can't be more than 12.5m but the overall footy department is 20m including player salaries, so if the player salaries come in at 10, then you have 10 to spend in the footy department (potentially with a mandatory spend on player development roles or something). You'd still have to have a floor on player salaries but it might be lowered to 85% or whatever the current suggestion is.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Assuming Ham gets cut, since the 2020 season we'll have 19 players that were on the list next year as we had that year. Of those, four were drafted the previous year.

We've had a massive list turnover over the past few seasons. To say otherwise is just crazy.

Potentially 20 if Tippa comes back. That's not especially significant. Better teams than us have done similar. Since 2020 Freo have 19, Cats with 21, Collingwood 22, Brisbane 22. It's incredibly easy to cut off the bottom 8 off your list every year.

Considering we lost 5 guys prematurely who we wanted to keep in that period, 6 if Tippa doesn't return, we have probably cut less dead wood from the bottom up than these teams except Collingwood, all of whom have lost maybe 1-2 they wanted to keep.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Just watch them apply for priority picks and be granted them....

 

[BrunoV]

Who was in the 2022 group?

 

[Corleone]

Tin Foil Hat Time

Maybe Hawthorn have cut their list to the bone so they'll be in such a weakened position on-field that the AFL will be reluctant to punish them with the loss of draft picks for the Clarkson/Fagan drama.

Would be fantastic if they've gone down this road, come dead last next year and then the AFL hit them with two years of draft penalties. They'd have almost no capital to trade back into the draft either. That would pretty much eviscerate Sam Mitchell's coaching career right there.

 

[rumply]

 

[Zach Package]

Completely disagree.

Feel this will end up disastrously for them.

The last 15 years is littered with examples of teams cutting far too deep for no reward, North the most recent example.

Mitchell had the grace period of this year which will help but you only have to look at us to see how quickly it can all cave in if a coach tries to implement something without any kind of implementation pieces in place to drive that on the field.