Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

[Phone]

wow afl players have been known to associate with dodgy people? this is shocking to learn

but enough about the worrying trend of the afl playing group being dominated by private school boys

 

[sameolds33]

So on a separate note, who gets up tonight? I'm tipping the Lions. Partly cos I think they'll win, partly cos I really just want to see Collingwood go 0-4.

same

 

[sameolds33]

Legal minefield. No doubt the lawyers at AFL House have been busy today.

I've been pondering interesting happenings from the past;

• John McCarthy's death (RIP)
• Jake King inviting Toby Mitchell (Bandidos bikie boss) into the Richmond rooms
• Karmichael Hunt and the group of Suns players who were regular party boys with him
• The Buddy rumours
• The Oliver and Goodwin rumours

I'm sure there's more, but the implications of the AFL's double standard with this will run deep for those affected.

I didn't know the Australian Crime Commission warned about 10 years ago that drug use and organised crime was widespread in professional sport.

At some point the question of the extent to which the AFL's system of non-reporting actually was an enabler will be asked. If I'm John McCarthy's father, I want some answers.

There are also the WCE drug issues and alleged associations with organised crime identities during their successful years: Cousins, Fletcher and Mainwaring (RIP)

 

[yodellinhank]

i don’t really care that players take drugs recreationally, but it shits me that guys who are paid a LOT of money to play footy are sitting out games because they couldn’t wait until after the game to get on the gear.

Obviously for some guys there is a dependency issue and they should be helped out, but i suspect a great many of them simply don’t care.

There's less reason to care when the AFL & AFLPA will assist you to get on and stay out of trouble

 

[Lore]

Our "injury" list last year and Brad's comments about lifestyle have even more meaning...

The ones that are truly injured still play through it, but they play poorly and everyone gets mad

 

[DERO]

 

[Dave]

what if they are also doing PEDs? Get tested for that, fake an injury so you dont play on game day, wait until the PEDs are out of your system?

Are injured players exempt from the rando testing?

nope

 

[ghostdog]

wow afl players have been known to associate with dodgy people? this is shocking to learn

but enough about the worrying trend of the afl playing group being dominated by private school boys

I think it's interesting in that it potentially speaks to how embedded a culture of illicit drug use is in an elite sports environment. Sorry if I'm not savvy enough for you. Gosh, now I just feel stupid and naive.

 

[Its Manbearpig]

Not a free
Umpires are trying!

 

[doug85]

How many weeks for Pendlebury?

 

[Mercurial89]

How many weeks for Pendlebury?

Zero, it's a fine, if anything.
Open hand slap to the body with the ball in the area.

 

[doug85]

Zero, it's a fine, if anything.
Open hand slap to the body with the ball in the area.

I reckon it’s a week.

Intentional, medium impact, body.

 

[jannissary]

we’ve had some atrociously umpired games over the years, but i genuinely don’t think i’ve seen a more one sided display than tonight’s game

 

[MiguelM]

Game changed when Neale tweaked his ankle, he was dominating.

Pendles & Daicos are allowed to drop the ball apparently.

 

[windyhill]

How many will flat track joey kick next week ?

 

[Phone]

I think it's interesting in that it potentially speaks to how embedded a culture of illicit drug use is in an elite sports environment. Sorry if I'm not savvy enough for you. Gosh, now I just feel stupid and naive.

It was either a jokey reply or serious outrage at the disgraceful invoking of John McCarthy's death which, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been anything to suggest it was anything other than tragic misadventure after a night of drinking, which is obviously unrelated to illicit drug use.

But since I'm now being slightly serious, I would further say, if the AFL's lawyers were busy over the last couple of days as you predict, I dare say it was because they were busy getting the documents together to advise Andrew Wilkie on the in's and outs of the respective drug policies, because after re-reading his statements in Parliament, I suspect Wilkie, like so many people, has no idea about it.

That's if the lawyers were busy, which they probably weren't, because it's not like anything Wilkie said was new to the AFL. They've had the illicit drugs policy for nearly 20 years, and for nearly 20 years there's been a yearly Big Discussion on it. Additionally, the Glen Bartlett/Demons drama is not new to the AFL, although I doubt anyone in AFL house expected that Andrew Wilkie would end up getting tangled up in it.

In Wilkie's speech, he says "while the results of the off-the-books tests are kept secret and never shared with Sport Integrity Australia or WADA" & "by helping players secretly break the World Anti-Doping Agency" which I guess are meant to be damning statements, but just suggests to me that Wilkie doesn't understand what he's actually talking about. As Richard Ings states (below), SIA isn't involved in this space. The only reason, as far as I know, that this could be of interest to SIA is if there was some kind of crossover with the in-competition testing period (11:59pm the day before the game until the end of the game and any post-match testing process) and a club doctor doing one of these tests. Jake Niall in his article has spoken to one source and gathered this information: "one source familiar with how this regime works noted that the doctor(s) would only organise for the player to be drug tested on Monday or Tuesday – early in the week – and not as late as two or three days before the game", which of course makes perfect logically sense, they would want to be well clear of the in-competition window before doing this test





In the nearly 20 years of this debate, I'm yet to see any realistic ideas on how to increase transparency around individual players testing positive for illicit drugs while protecting their privacy, which, because the illicit drugs policy is not a required policy for the AFL to have and needs to be agreed upon with the AFLPA, will always have a heavy privacy aspect to it. As Ings says, Wilkie can actually try to do something about it and start working on a private members bill if he wants SIA to be in this space, and remove the AFL and AFLPA needing to come up with an agreement. (And I just note that two doctors associated with AFL clubs rubbish the claim that fake injures were ever used at their own clubs.)

Concerns about athletes associating with alleged organised crime figures will always be a thing in sport (although alleged organised crime figures associate with a lot of people...). And this association can happen regardless of illicit drugs: alcohol, gambling, business, family and friend relationships etc etc are all ways that athletes may end up associating with organised crime. if we lived in some kind of magic world where no illegal drugs existed, we would still have people associated with baddies. It seems almost pointless to bring it up. nearly all sports are aware of it. They do what they can to guide their athletes away from it. it is what it is.

 

[ghostdog]

It was either a jokey reply or serious outrage at the disgraceful invoking of John McCarthy's death which, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been anything to suggest it was anything other than tragic misadventure after a night of drinking, which is obviously unrelated to illicit drug use.

Concerns about athletes associating with alleged organised crime figures will always be a thing in sport (although alleged organised crime figures associate with a lot of people...). And this association can happen regardless of illicit drugs: alcohol, gambling, business, family and friend relationships etc etc are all ways that athletes may end up associating with organised crime. if we lived in some kind of magic world where no illegal drugs existed, we would still have people associated with baddies. It seems almost pointless to bring it up. nearly all sports are aware of it. They do what they can to guide their athletes away from it. it is what it is.

Caveat: I've deleted all the guff with which you've conflated your reply to me.

There was speculation at the time that McCarthy may have taken drugs, as this quote from Port's then CEO explains; "McCarthy was with 10 other Port players on an end-of-season trip but became separated from his teammates at a night
club where the sportsmen were offered drugs.

''A couple of the guys have said that the drugs were freely available in these casinos,'' Port Adelaide chief executive officer Keith Thomas said yesterday."

His death was later ruled accidental, but the toxicology report was never made public, and the coroner wouldn't confirm whether either drugs or alcohol were in his system, so no, it's not "obviously unrelated to illicit drug use" at all. This is information in the public domain. Unfortunately that's a cloud of mystery that probably remains until evidence that demonstrates otherwise emerges, regardless of how outrageous you or anyone else thinks that is.

Also, as I'd previously posted, I think it's worth considering that at some point one could take the perspective that the AFL has enabled illicit drug use by some players by its endorsement of a double-standard that turns a blind eye to the problem, rather than requiring clubs to stiffen their contracts. In terms of who that tacit endorsement may have enabled, your guess is as good as mine, but I figure looking at players' relationships with dodgy people offers some lead in; you're right though, that's pointless. Lucky all I said was that I find it fascinating, but I guess I'm just a human being with a tendency to being a whorish voyeur. Sorry if my sexiness disgusts you, but yeah nah, good joke.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

How many weeks for Pendlebury?

Made no attempt to mark or spoil the ball, so at least four weeks...

 

[MiguelM]

How many weeks for Pendlebury?

Asif they are going to shoot Bambi!

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Asif they are going to shoot Bambi!

 

[JayJ20]

Racist arseholes don't leave Eddie Betts and his family alone. He seems to be a frequent target despite being nice and liked by supporters of all 18 clubs.

If someone like him is still subject to this after everything he did, then it's really difficult to see when this stops.

It shows how important it is for everyone to call out racism in their own circles irrespective of whether it's a family member, friend, colleague, employer, stranger etc.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Racist arseholes don't leave Eddie Betts and his family alone. He seems to be a frequent target despite being nice and liked by supporters of all 18 clubs.

If someone like him is still subject to this after everything he did, then it's really difficult to see when this stops.

It shows how important it is for everyone to call out racism in their own circles irrespective of whether it's a family member, friend, colleague, employer, stranger etc.

Absolutely vile. Cowards and bigots.

 

[ghostdog]

Nationalists like Sewell and his grubby friends are more organised than most people realise I reckon. Wouldn't surprise me if this is their mob.

 

[ghostdog]

I feel like North are wearing a cadbury jumper, for a Good Friday game...

 

[Mercurial89]

It shows how important it is for everyone to call out racism in their own circles irrespective of whether it's a family member, friend, colleague, employer, stranger etc.

Important yes,
better would be if you were friends or a family member of someone who drives past some kids playing basketball to abuse them I'd more encourage completely disowning them.

These people aren't changing, and they aren't worth anything to society.