Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

[bombreys]

So the fact he had 4 months out with a knee injury and limited fitness base had nothing to do with it. He had played a couple of games in 12 months before his VFL debut.

He was still not 100% ready when they played him.
Maybe do some more research. This is getting too easy .

Had nothing to do with what?

My research is that he was averaging almost 30 stats and 5+ tackles in the VFL over a four-week stretch. And that the coaches deemed him ready and rewarded that form. And he came in and looked ready (raw, but ready) at AFL level.

Your research is that he was rushed in, in your opinion.

 

[yodellinhank]

Had nothing to do with what?

My research is that he was averaging almost 30 stats and 5+ tackles in the VFL over a four-week stretch. And that the coaches deemed him ready and rewarded that form. And he came in and looked ready (raw, but ready) at AFL level.

Your research is that he was rushed in, in your opinion.

You should've researched by watching the games instead of just looking up some stats.

 

[bombreys]

He'd had no preseason whatsoever and was struggling to run out games at VFL level, let alone AFL level.

Yes, he was absolutely racking them up and ripping out clearances at will at VFL level because he's a genuinely good footballer. He hadn't had full seasons in his U17 or U18 years and yet was still considered a Top 5 selection for the entire season (similar to Wardlaw) so we know he could football, but he was a long, long way behind fitness wise where he needed to be and where someone like a Perkins who'd had no injuries was.

Some very fair points. Genuine question, what do you think made the coach(es) play him if he wasn't fit enough? Just a case of the cupboard being so bare?

 

[faible]

Some very fair points. Genuine question, what do you think made the coach(es) play him if he wasn't fit enough? Just a case of the cupboard being so bare?

Season was pretty much at an end, his VFL form was good, and the first two games he played were against bottom-dwellers North and West Coast so was as good a time as possible to debut a young midfielder with limited preseason.

Gives him a chance to see the level of fitness required for the AFL as we're heading towards the preseason and rewarded his strong VFL form which he was doing off a very limited fitness base.

Doesn't change that he was miles behind fitness-wise as that's not something you can really fix in-season, and they certainly had no need to play him at AFL level at all given he simply needed games at any level at that point and to get to pre-season fit and uninjured.

 

[ant555]

Had nothing to do with what?

My research is that he was averaging almost 30 stats and 5+ tackles in the VFL over a four-week stretch. And that the coaches deemed him ready and rewarded that form. And he came in and looked ready (raw, but ready) at AFL level.

Your research is that he was rushed in, in your opinion.

Okay lets address some facts here.

1. Had nothing do do with what you ask. My point is his limited preparation had everything to do with him playing 4 VFL games before he was picked. He missed 4 months with a knee injury and spent a number of weeks pre season with a knee brace on and the only work he was doing was sitting in a plastic chair and watching. On top of that he missed 3 months of his bottom age year with a foot fracture and came back late in the year to play a couple of School footy games and a couple of NAB games plus 1 Vic Metro game. He came into our system with a less than average fitness base and then got injured in Jan and had to have surgery. This is why he needed those games once he got back. That was my point . It was in fact 7 games with the last 4 weeks of form that got him in.

2. Yes you looked at the stats. Would not have been all that hard to look at the VFL match thread either. Your opinion is raw but ready. Not sure how you can say a kid who had missed a big chunk of 2022 and 2023 and could not do the running or the physical development was ready. He has always had ability and had no issues finding the footy but he was absolutely not physically ready. Not even close. Even now after a full pre season he is not physically ready.

3. My research is not he was rushed in. In never said that at all. I replied to your post where you said Clarke and Dempsey where rushed in for Geelong . They where not. All I have ever said about Tsatas is they played him before he was really ready and they have played him this year despite his form in the match sim and practice games being okay but not A grade. Somehow you have turned you own false message into me saying he was rushed in. I did not.

 

[Kong]

what a nothing apology. disgusting

Unacceptable in the game of football = cool on the street?

 

[andleanback]

Clarke and Dempsey are from the same draft as Tsatas… weird they’re 4-0 rushing these young blokes in

Dempsey was the year before and was an overager

 

[bombreys]

Dempsey was the year before and was an overager

Yep, corrected that:

"Apologies, you’re correct. Looks like rookie draft 21, I thought he was was an SSP 22 signing."

 

[eth-dog]

Three games for Finlayson. Should have been 5.

 

[jannissary]

Three games for Finlayson. Should have been 5.

it sets a basic example, could’ve & should’ve thrown the book at him

 

[TheGrizz]

On one hand, I dont have any issue with 3 weeks for his actions in a vacuum.

On the other, he (Finalyson) is probably feeling a bit miffed that he gets three and Clarkson gets a fine and suspended sentence for essentially the same action.

In reality Finlayson's outcome is about right, and the AFL just messed it up with being too cautious to suspend Clarkson.

 

[faible]

On one hand, I dont have any issue with 3 weeks for his actions in a vacuum.

On the other, he (Finalyson) is probably feeling a bit miffed that he gets three and Clarkson gets a fine and suspended sentence for essentially the same action.

In reality Finlayson's outcome is about right, and the AFL just messed it up with being too cautious to suspend Clarkson.

Nothing is more AFL than the AFL being inconsistent in the applications of rules and sanctions.

 

[jannissary]

if clarkson was playing & not coaching i think there’d be more of a reason to be annoyed by the decision, at least considering that clarkson spent most of last year not coaching, it wouldn’t have realistically done much, though i think the fine should’ve been significantly higher

 

[Pweter]

Nothing is more AFL than the AFL being inconsistent in the applications of rules and sanctions.

It's the AFL way. You're better off being the first to screw up as they go soft, if you're 2nd or beyond the sanctions get heavier very quickly.

I don't get why they don't go hard from the outset.

 

[jannissary]

It's the AFL way. You're better off being the first to screw up as they go soft, if you're 2nd or beyond the sanctions get heavier very quickly.

I don't get why they don't go hard from the outset.

if it was a nick daicos, christian petracca type he’d get no more than one week, as they’re “stars” (check how many brownlow favourites dodge suspensions each year lol), because he’s a shit can bottom of the list player they can “throw” the book at him & go harder in the future

 

[RedmanWasHere]

if clarkson was playing & not coaching i think there’d be more of a reason to be annoyed by the decision, at least considering that clarkson spent most of last year not coaching, it wouldn’t have realistically done much, though i think the fine should’ve been significantly higher

It was 2022 when Clarko sat out.

 

[jannissary]

It was 2022 when Clarko sat out.

i thought he missed a huge chunk of last year with “personal” reasons or whatever, i know he wasn’t coaching in 2022

 

[Doss]

Not defending Clarkson or his behaviour in the slightest, but I’d argue that the insult Finlayson used is more inherently homophobic and has a much stronger and uglier legacy as a term specifically used to target gay people, than what Clarkson said.

I think the question of weighing the penalties the two received therefore is more related to the fact that Clarkson has an appalling behavioural record in the past. Ftr Clarkson should have got some time off too.

 

[jannissary]

Not defending Clarkson or his behaviour in the slightest, but I’d argue that the insult Finlayson used is more inherently homophobic and has a much stronger and uglier legacy as a term specifically used to target gay people, than what Clarkson said.

I think the question of weighing the penalties the two received therefore is more related to the fact that Clarkson has an appalling behavioural record in the past. Ftr Clarkson should have got some time off too.

AFL even said they weren’t comparable in offence

 

[Vindicater]

Clarkson laughing all the way to the bank.

AFL again going the soft target to set an example.

Note: I agree with the suspension. Just pointing out the AFL hypocrisy as usual

 

[joey_jo_jo]

honestly they shouldve gone harder at clarkson. Senior coach, not in the heat of the battle, has a long history of similar unsavoury acts. He should know better.

 

[yodellinhank]

This kind of thing is why the whole drug strike pre testing stinks to high heaven. The whole "competition" is just stage managed bullshit.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

On one hand, I dont have any issue with 3 weeks for his actions in a vacuum.

On the other, he (Finalyson) is probably feeling a bit miffed that he gets three and Clarkson gets a fine and suspended sentence for essentially the same action.

In reality Finlayson's outcome is about right, and the AFL just messed it up with being too cautious to suspend Clarkson.

And coaches should be held to an even higher standard. IMO a coach abusing an opposition player should be an automatic suspension even if it's not racist/sexist/homophobic. The NRL suspended Ricky Stuart for calling a player a weak dog a couple of years ago.

 

[Beerfish]

The NRL suspended Ricky Stuart for calling a player a weak dog a couple of years ago.

Mark Johnson is angry at this.

 

[TheGrizz]

And coaches should be held to an even higher standard. IMO a coach abusing an opposition player should be an automatic suspension even if it's not racist/sexist/homophobic. The NRL suspended Ricky Stuart for calling a player a weak dog a couple of years ago.

They also suspended a player for 4 weeks back in 2022 for saying the same thing Finlayson did.
Three years ago they suspended Addin Fonua-Blake for 2 weeks (plus a 20k fine) for calling someone a derogatory term used to described disabled people.
Spencer Leniu just got 7 weeks for a racist slur in round 1.

People in footy circles love to knock the NRL as neanderthals, but they do not mess around with this sort of stiff like the AFL does sometimes.