Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

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windyhill said:
Every year it’s Essendon as one of their “make up games” for their 12 members.
**** off norf.
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Old Campaigner said:
It’s amazing how much a person can differ from the way they present publicly. I’d have never thought he’d be like that as a coach
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Bolton is from the same mould as Clarkson. Angry wee man.
 

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Apparently Bolton and Leppitsch clashed a fair bit this season when they shared Graeme Wright role, he’s off to Saints now. Not sure how a guy seemingly so lacking in people skills is ever appointed a head coach
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Apparently Bolton and Leppitsch clashed a fair bit this season when they shared Graeme Wright role, he’s off to Saints now. Not sure how a guy seemingly so lacking in people skills is ever appointed a head coach
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Wouldn’t be the first time an appointment process was lacking at a football club
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Apparently Bolton and Leppitsch clashed a fair bit this season when they shared Graeme Wright role, he’s off to Saints now. Not sure how a guy seemingly so lacking in people skills is ever appointed a head coach
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The same way a lot are. His history was working in a successful system under Clarkson.
The problem at the Pies was there where two bulls and n the same paddock.
 
fairbump_playon said:
Hate these type of guys

They actually needed a cuddle from Dad but instead they’re out there bullying young men in the name of improving them
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Yeah and they try to dress you like dolls by wearing club ties and shirts in public. A bit sad really. The most disturbing thing for me was the way he treated Sam Dochety!with the over praise. Especially a club like Carlton!

It would have been much more of a win building a side around your Everyman player in Kade Simpson. He was destined to fail in retrospect. I believe he only had about 3 wins over 3 or 4 years or so.
 
Happyskeret said:
Yeah and they try to dress you like dolls by wearing club ties and shirts in public. A bit sad really. The most disturbing thing for me was the way he treated Sam Dochety!with the over praise. Especially a club like Carlton!

It would have been much more of a win building a side around your Everyman player in Kade Simpson. He was destined to fail in retrospect. I believe he only had about 3 wins over 3 or 4 years or so.
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Yet not more than 15 years ago it was simply normal and effective. He is one who did not read the change that has happened over the last 10 to 15 years so it is on him. When I played I loved the challenge if the coach gave me a spray. To me it was **** you w***er I will show you how it is done. Different times. Different attitudes. I do not think Voss has not given some decent sprays at the Blues. It is a thing of the past and you can not use it every week but I suspect Bolton's frustration with the Blues was similar to what Scott has had with us. Too many selfish footballers in their own bubble wanting to do their own thing. He was trying to get them to defend and they simply would not. Teague comes in and throws defense out the window and players are happy for a bit until he decides we need to defend. Players not happy again.
You have to remember Bolton was a guy who was caught in the cross over from hard ass old school to the more modern style that works now as attitudes around discipline / teaching / parenting changed. I saw it a bit in under age coaching when I was doing it. Each year you could see a lot of kids needed a bit more focus on things they did well and a bit less stern assessment on what they needed to improve.
Clarkson has had to change. Ross Lyon had had to change. Brendan McCartney has one of the best footy brains in coaching but was too old school.
Bolton was too old school and needed to change but I get his frustration. Carlton still have issues defending and although not aiming up at individuals I know Voss has totally blown a fuse several times.
 
ant555 said:
Yet not more than 15 years ago it was simply normal and effective. He is one who did not read the change that has happened over the last 10 to 15 years so it is on him. When I played I loved the challenge if the coach gave me a spray. To me it was **** you w***er I will show you how it is done. Different times. Different attitudes. I do not think Voss has not given some decent sprays at the Blues. It is a thing of the past and you can not use it every week but I suspect Bolton's frustration with the Blues was similar to what Scott has had with us. Too many selfish footballers in their own bubble wanting to do their own thing. He was trying to get them to defend and they simply would not. Teague comes in and throws defense out the window and players are happy for a bit until he decides we need to defend. Players not happy again.
You have to remember Bolton was a guy who was caught in the cross over from hard ass old school to the more modern style that works now as attitudes around discipline / teaching / parenting changed. I saw it a bit in under age coaching when I was doing it. Each year you could see a lot of kids needed a bit more focus on things they did well and a bit less stern assessment on what they needed to improve.
Clarkson has had to change. Ross Lyon had had to change. Brendan McCartney has one of the best footy brains in coaching but was too old school.
Bolton was too old school and needed to change but I get his frustration. Carlton still have issues defending and although not aiming up at individuals I know Voss has totally blown a fuse several times.
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Sorry for going off on a tangent but Voss is an interesting one.

Speaking to a Carlton supporter mate (who does not rate Voss), he reckons that Voss ****ed up this year by letting his idiot fitness team smash the players after the Geelong loss in a bit of an old-school approach to the loss. It resulted in lots of injuries and Russell coming out and almost joking that there should be an expectation that they lose one or two on the training track. He was supposedly the best in the business!

Voss has had a pretty good list of players and lots of bad luck but time is running out for him.
 
ant555 said:
Yet not more than 15 years ago it was simply normal and effective. He is one who did not read the change that has happened over the last 10 to 15 years so it is on him. When I played I loved the challenge if the coach gave me a spray. To me it was **** you w***er I will show you how it is done. Different times. Different attitudes. I do not think Voss has not given some decent sprays at the Blues. It is a thing of the past and you can not use it every week but I suspect Bolton's frustration with the Blues was similar to what Scott has had with us. Too many selfish footballers in their own bubble wanting to do their own thing. He was trying to get them to defend and they simply would not. Teague comes in and throws defense out the window and players are happy for a bit until he decides we need to defend. Players not happy again.
You have to remember Bolton was a guy who was caught in the cross over from hard ass old school to the more modern style that works now as attitudes around discipline / teaching / parenting changed. I saw it a bit in under age coaching when I was doing it. Each year you could see a lot of kids needed a bit more focus on things they did well and a bit less stern assessment on what they needed to improve.
Clarkson has had to change. Ross Lyon had had to change. Brendan McCartney has one of the best footy brains in coaching but was too old school.
Bolton was too old school and needed to change but I get his frustration. Carlton still have issues defending and although not aiming up at individuals I know Voss has totally blown a fuse several times.
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I pretty much agree with most of what you are saying and I do sympathise with Bolton to some degree. The reason I called him a try hard in an earlier post is that he tried to criticise most of the team but couldn’t handle any criticism that came back the other way. You can’t take that shit personally and be a leader of the group because you will let it get under your skin and ruin relationships and be counterproductive to the goals you are trying to accomplish.
 
Happyskeret said:
I pretty much agree with most of what you are saying and I do sympathise with Bolton to some degree. The reason I called him a try hard in an earlier post is that he tried to criticise most of the team but couldn’t handle any criticism that came back the other way. You can’t take that shit personally and be a leader of the group because you will let it get under your skin and ruin relationships and be counterproductive to the goals you are trying to accomplish.
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Not sure that even now the coach (AFL level) accepts feedback the other way unless it is from the leaders. I doubt Brad Scott would be taking much feedback from anyone other than Zack Merrett. It just doesn't work that way.
It is a fine line and obviously Bolton was not equipped to do it but the playing group obviously needed a few home truths that they did not want to know about either.
I would say that the difference can be a good list v bad list. I doubt Clarkson gets away with some of the conversations he has with Hawks players if they where not playing finals and winning premierships.
Leigh Matthews hardly spoke to his players. They where frightened of him.
As I said before there has been a gradual cross over from old school to now. Some blokes just do not have the skill set.
I get it. The attitude now days says going off your nut all the time will work maybe 5% of the time with the right group and in life I have learnt that the talk softly and precise way works best in work and other situations . It has only really changed in high level sport in the last 10 or so years.
 
ant555 said:
Not sure that even now the coach (AFL level) accepts feedback the other way unless it is from the leaders. I doubt Brad Scott would be taking much feedback from anyone other than Zack Merrett. It just doesn't work that way.
It is a fine line and obviously Bolton was not equipped to do it but the playing group obviously needed a few home truths that they did not want to know about either.
I would say that the difference can be a good list v bad list. I doubt Clarkson gets away with some of the conversations he has with Hawks players if they where not playing finals and winning premierships.
Leigh Matthews hardly spoke to his players. They where frightened of him.
As I said before there has been a gradual cross over from old school to now. Some blokes just do not have the skill set.
I get it. The attitude now days says going off your nut all the time will work maybe 5% of the time with the right group and in life I have learnt that the talk softly and precise way works best in work and other situations . It has only really changed in high level sport in the last 10 or so years.
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I get your saying about old school coaching compared to the new style. I had both of those types of coaches. Personally when I had someone screaming at me I just switched off and stopped listening to them unless I felt it was warranted. I played full back and centre half back so I found most of what the coach said was irrelevant to the position I played. Didn’t have the luxury of specialists that catered to the position I played. Was good enough to be the captain probably because I spoke my mind and treated people with respect. I think the other thing that is forgotten about this is Zach come from a different culture and background so our way of doing things was probably alien to him.

Edit: the other thing I will add is he can act like Leigh Mathews but at the end of the day he is not Leigh Mathews.
 
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The other thing about Bolton that set alarm bells off in my head was the shitty contract the blues gave him. Made him look like a coach on training wheels that they didn’t have any faith in. I felt at the time he was doomed at the start and yes the shitty list he had to work with didn’t help the situation.
 
ant555 said:
Not sure that even now the coach (AFL level) accepts feedback the other way unless it is from the leaders. I doubt Brad Scott would be taking much feedback from anyone other than Zack Merrett. It just doesn't work that way.
It is a fine line and obviously Bolton was not equipped to do it but the playing group obviously needed a few home truths that they did not want to know about either.
I would say that the difference can be a good list v bad list. I doubt Clarkson gets away with some of the conversations he has with Hawks players if they where not playing finals and winning premierships.
Leigh Matthews hardly spoke to his players. They where frightened of him.
As I said before there has been a gradual cross over from old school to now. Some blokes just do not have the skill set.
I get it. The attitude now days says going off your nut all the time will work maybe 5% of the time with the right group and in life I have learnt that the talk softly and precise way works best in work and other situations . It has only really changed in high level sport in the last 10 or so years.
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After a game late in the season Jordan Lewis spoke about our backline making errors and what he said perked my ears up. He said they want it too much. Interesting to hear from a 4 time flag winner who was coached by an angry man, but we've seen it again more recently with the Tigers emphasis on joking around. So it makes sense that our players are too anxious and it's driving poor decision making. I don't know how a coach simultaneously drives hard standards aggressively and maintains a low anxiety environment that is good for growth. I think a lot of it must be resilient and laid back temperaments from your players, hard to draft for as I bet it's mistaken for poor conscientiousness a lot.
 
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Red Black and Blue said:
After a game late in the season Jordan Lewis spoke about our backline making errors and what he said perked my ears up. He said they want it too much. Interesting to hear from a 4 time flag winner who was coached by an angry man, but we've seen it again more recently with the Tigers emphasis on joking around. So it makes sense that our players are too anxious and it's driving poor decision making. I don't know how a coach simultaneously drives hard standards aggressively and maintains a low anxiety environment that is good for growth. I think a lot of it must be resilient and laid back temperaments from your players, hard to draft for as I bet it's mistaken for poor conscientiousness a lot.
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Depth of leadership helps. You have to have a strong leadership group that is aligned with the coach. Hawks where an example. So are Geelong. Sydney have been. People talk about club culture but a large part of that culture is strong leadership in the playing group. Richmond found the balance and Hardwicke was good enough to ease up on the agro and let the guys play a bit but still be very firm in what standards he wanted.
 
Happyskeret said:
The other thing about Bolton that set alarm bells off in my head was the shitty contract the blues gave him. Made him look like a coach on training wheels that they didn’t have any faith in. I felt at the time he was doomed at the start and yes the shitty list he had to work with didn’t help the situation.
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Bolton failed as he did not have the tools to deal with the Carlton situation and culture after being at the Hawks which had a totally different culture. That is how it is. The players also have to take some of the blame in the same way as our guys do for the series of coaches we have been through. Wrong guy for the wrong time. Was the same with Rutten despite his different style. It was not a good choice to choose a young old school type of coach to replace an old hard school guy in Malthouse. He was never going to get the respect and as you say the contract did not exactly say the club had real confidence in Bolton. It has taken an AFL legend who has respect but also has the right balance between hard ass and player relationships and a few good leaders to turn the Blues around despite the issues they still have.
 

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Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

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