Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2024

[Docker82]

I can pick out a heap of draft selections in the last decade or so alone that were worse. Far far worse.

• macasey over Young/serong
• Dylan Stephens over young/serong
• mcCartin over petracca
• Billings over Bont
• paddy Dow over LDU
• Schache instead of Curnow/Mckay
• north selected Will Walker at 23 in 2017. In the following 10 picks, Tim Kelly, Ryan, Sam Taylor, Daniels, Fritsch, Balta, Tom McCartin were all picked. All much superior to Logan McD. You wanna hang shit on north for a bad draft pick? - there’s one right there.

Also comparing Lance Franklin in the same breath as Logan mcdonald, you know better that that lol

The point is Logan is a league average footballer at best. He’s not generational or a superstar, or even an AA level player. He’s not a huge miss.
Thats the point. Missing out on gun players hurts at draft time in retrospect.
Picking a C grader instead of a D grader doesn’t hurt near as much.

I thought Tambling was a pretty good comparison for Phillips tbh. Still do hence why I originally said Buddy except a good player rather than all time great.

McDonald is better than a C Grader even now. C Graders don’t kick 30 goals in a season - that’s an above average KPF even when you ignore everything else he does and that he’s in his fourth year.

I actually think this is worse at the time than any of the picks you’ve stated tbh. Everyone except North had McDonald ahead of Phillips - those picks you’ve said are either 50/50 or were always happening the way they did. My point is more about how obvious it was from day one - Hindsight doesn’t even need to come into it IMO.

 

[Dockeroo]

I thought Tambling was a pretty good comparison for Phillips tbh. Still do hence why I originally said Buddy except a good player rather than all time great.

McDonald is better than a C Grader even now. C Graders don’t kick 30 goals in a season - that’s an above average KPF even when you ignore everything else he does and that he’s in his fourth year.

I actually think this is worse at the time than any of the picks you’ve stated tbh. Everyone except North had McDonald ahead of Phillips - those picks you’ve said are either 50/50 or were always happening the way they did. My point is more about how obvious it was from day one - Hindsight doesn’t even need to come into it IMO.

That’s all well and good but the bottom line is the pick will only be considered a blunder in the tamling/buddy or even Fiora/Pav range if McDonald has a similar career to those superstars I mentioned. 6 plus AA awards, walk up hall of famer type stuff.

And from what I’ve seen so far - he’s majorly underwhelming. He is not remotely close to that level.

This thing about these draft rankings is they become less prevalent as the years pass and players in the draft separate themselves more from each other, through actual on-field performance in the AFL, not where they were rated pre draft.

Nobody gives a shit now that Tom Scully and Jack trengrove were rated ahead of Dusty Martin in 2009 in draft day.

The fact is the Dees should have picked Dusty 100 times out of 100 over them in hindsight.

 

[FreoRicci]

Just on that, even watching draft videos, how was Tambling rated so highly ?
Just a typical flashy skinny half back that like all amazing youth, reached his ceiling by draft day.

Buddy was raw and could kick bombs from 50 already at 17.

Staggering how bad scouts are.

 

[Kram]

• mcCartin over petracca
• Billings over Bont

Scary to think how much better St Kilda would be if they got those 2 picks right.

 

[Dockernut]

That’s all well and good but the bottom line is the pick will only be considered a blunder in the tamling/buddy or even Fiora/Pav range if McDonald has a similar career to those superstars I mentioned. 6 plus AA awards, walk up hall of famer type stuff.

And from what I’ve seen so far - he’s majorly underwhelming. He is not remotely close to that level.

This thing about these draft rankings is they become less prevalent as the years pass and players in the draft separate themselves more from each other, through actual on-field performance in the AFL, not where they were rated pre draft.

Nobody gives a shit now that Tom Scully and Jack trengrove were rated ahead of Dusty Martin in 2009 in draft day.

The fact is the Dees should have picked Dusty 100 times out of 100 over them in hindsight.

Our Mora picked the selection after Dusty imagine if he had that kind of longevity.

 

[Kram]

Literally the very next pick right after as well, christ just imagine having both the Bont and the Trac running loose in your midfield and forward line.

 

[Dockeroo]

Scary to think how much better St Kilda would be if they got those 2 picks right.

This is kinda my point.
Pretty unlikely we’ll be sitting here in 2030 saying “wow, imagine how scary good North would be now if they had Logan mcdonald”

 

[Stinky Lomax]

Seems committed.

“10 News First cameras were there as Jack Darling

27

Jack Darling

Age

32

Ht

191cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.4

5star

arrived back in Perth following a meeting with North Melbourne FC.

The veteran West Coast Eagles forward is set to extend his career with Alastair Clarkson's Kangaroos, and is on the verge of signing a multi-year contract with the club.

"I'm just trying to ... extend my career and look if that's another two or three years at North, yeah I think that would suit me and my family well," Darling told 10 News First.”

 

[Docker82]

This is kinda my point.
Pretty unlikely we’ll be sitting here in 2030 saying “wow, imagine how scary good North would be now if they had Logan mcdonald”

Might not be McDonald we’re talking about specifically but I find it hard to imagine they won’t regret the Phillips pick massively.

Larkey whilst not exactly old isn’t young either and I don’t even know who their other KPFs are. This is a team that has been rebuilding for ages and has some pretty special midfield prospects. Can easily see a scenario where they don’t find a decent KPF until Larkey retires tbh.

I still think McDonald is going to be very very good btw. Let’s just wait and see.

 

[Dockeroo]

'Social harm on an industrial scale': New gambling loss data intensifies pressure for reform

The average loss for each Australian adult hit $1,555 a year in 2022-2023, up from $1,395 in 2021-2022, new figures show.

www.sbs.com.au

Depressing reading here. Hard to understate how disappointing the Albanese govt have been on his issue.

The numbers are staggering.
$32 billion, THIRTY TWO BILLION DOLLARS, lost by Australians to gambling in 2022/23, up from $28b the year before.
Half a million Aussies have asked their bank to prevent them taking money out to gamble. That’s one in every 50 Australians.

Average Australian adult loses over $1500 a year gambling. It’s insane how this is allowed to continue unchecked.

These numbers are mind blowing. In a bad way. Gill McLachlan and co continue to add a few million a year to their salaries and bonuses in the gambling agencies on the back of this stealth tax on young vulnerable Australians.
It would make you sick, and of course the AFL are one of the biggest supporters of it all.

 

[malpaso]

'Social harm on an industrial scale': New gambling loss data intensifies pressure for reform

The average loss for each Australian adult hit $1,555 a year in 2022-2023, up from $1,395 in 2021-2022, new figures show.

www.sbs.com.au

Depressing reading here. Hard to understate how disappointing the Albanese govt have been on his issue.

The numbers are staggering.
$32 billion, THIRTY TWO BILLION DOLLARS, lost by Australians to gambling in 2022/23, up from $28b the year before.
Half a million Aussies have asked their bank to prevent them taking money out to gamble. That’s one in every 50 Australians.

Average Australian adult loses over $1500 a year gambling. It’s insane how this is allowed to continue unchecked.

These numbers are mind blowing. In a bad way. Gill McLachlan and co continue to add a few million a year to their salaries and bonuses in the gambling agencies on the back of this stealth tax on young vulnerable Australians.
It would make you sick, and of course the AFL are one of the biggest supporters of it all.

Yeah Australians have only been gambling since the Albanese govt. came in.. What a useless statement.

 

[arsesmart]

'Social harm on an industrial scale': New gambling loss data intensifies pressure for reform

The average loss for each Australian adult hit $1,555 a year in 2022-2023, up from $1,395 in 2021-2022, new figures show.

www.sbs.com.au

Depressing reading here. Hard to understate how disappointing the Albanese govt have been on his issue.

The numbers are staggering.
$32 billion, THIRTY TWO BILLION DOLLARS, lost by Australians to gambling in 2022/23, up from $28b the year before.
Half a million Aussies have asked their bank to prevent them taking money out to gamble. That’s one in every 50 Australians.

Average Australian adult loses over $1500 a year gambling. It’s insane how this is allowed to continue unchecked.

These numbers are mind blowing. In a bad way. Gill McLachlan and co continue to add a few million a year to their salaries and bonuses in the gambling agencies on the back of this stealth tax on young vulnerable Australians.
It would make you sick, and of course the AFL are one of the biggest supporters of it all.

This is probably better placed in the politics thread... but people losing money on gambling isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself.

If, say, it's by people who can afford it, then it's just pretendy stuff circulating around the economy. It's more the who and how that can make a difference. Obviously vulnerable (ie desperate) groups are likely the cutting edge of it.

I'd hazard a guess and say cost of living might also play a role, in that gambling might rise with it, as people look for relief both financially, dopamine/distraction, and "hope"-wise.

 

[Dockeroo]

Yeah Australians have only been gambling since the Albanese govt. came in.. What a useless statement.

The $300m investment by gambling agencies in advertising returned an extra $4 billion from 21/22 to 22/23. That’s a nice return on investment off the back of vulnerable Aussies. Where does it end?
Maybe they could continue growth unchecked. Spend $600m on gambling ads and return $60 billion in profit instead of $30b.
Heading that way.

 

[Madas]

This is probably better placed in the politics thread... but people losing money on gambling isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself.

If, say, it's by people who can afford it, then it's just pretendy stuff circulating around the economy. It's more the who and how that can make a difference. Obviously vulnerable (ie desperate) groups are likely the cutting edge of it.

I'd hazard a guess and say cost of living might also play a role, in that gambling might rise with it, as people look for relief both financially, dopamine/distraction, and "hope"-wise.

Sorry but nothing about it is a good thing

My son 19 has started to dabble on stupid football multis , dazzled by big wins for a small bet , my wife , who should know better condones it saying it’s only $1, leave him alone

I’ve seen the damage this behaviour can cause first hand and it’s devastating and it starts with small bets

I hate what the gambling companies have done to our world, wish they’d burn in hell and take Gillon McLachlan with them

 

[arsesmart]

Sorry but nothing about it is a good thing

My son 19 has started to dabble on stupid football multis , dazzled by big wins for a small bet , my wife , who should know better condones it saying it’s only $1, leave him alone

I’ve seen the damage this behaviour can cause first hand and it’s devastating and it starts with small bets

I hate what the gambling companies have done to our world, wish they’d burn in hell and take Gillon McLachlan with them

Much of that is the inherent rapacity of corporations. Not great. But they're not going anywhere and the vast majority of people who gamble have it at some reasonable level of damage-minimisation. Dealing with it from a damage-minimisation level is probably the best we can hope for. Especially given it's huge capacity for virtual operating/black marketeering.

 

[malpaso]

The $300m investment by gambling agencies in advertising returned an extra $4 billion from 21/22 to 22/23. That’s a nice return on investment off the back of vulnerable Aussies. Where does it end?
Maybe they could continue growth unchecked. Spend $600m on gambling ads and return $60 billion in profit instead of $30b.
Heading that way.

Yeah but you insinuated that the Albanese govt. is to blame for a rise in gambling. They aren't, that industry has been rising for years on end and there are a lot of factors involved, chiefly that organisations such as the AFL continue to lean on their advertising dollars.
Can the government do more? Certainly but that is any government, who was in power for a decade before Albanese?

 

[Madas]

Much of that is the inherent rapacity of corporations. Not great. But they're not going anywhere and the vast majority of people who gamble have it at some reasonable level of damage-minimisation. Dealing with it from a damage-minimisation level is probably the best we can hope for. Especially given it's huge capacity for virtual operating/black marketeering.

Well I would counter that by saying if we don’t enable them ( by not gambling and spreading the word to our kids that it’s nothing but stupid ) then they couldn’t flourish

I understand that you have every right to your opinion but in effect you are justifying and normalising something that should be tarred with the same brush as smoking


Change has to start somewhere !

I focus on our local football club and promote anti - gambling to the young men and women of that organisation

 

[arsesmart]

Well I would counter that by saying if we don’t enable them ( by not gambling and spreading the word to our kids that it’s nothing but stupid ) then they couldn’t flourish

I understand that you have every right to your opinion but in effect you are justifying and normalising something that should be tarred with the same brush as smoking


Change has to start somewhere !

I focus on our local football club and promote anti - gambling to the young men and women of that organisation

Yeah but if the children don't believe or connect with that message, what then?

It goes underground and becomes more "cool". Gambling, more than any other physical object, easily goes underground or offshore and then is less able to be regulated.

A war on gambling (or any inanimate object, say like drugs) just gives unnecessary power to that object, instead of say empowering the living breathing flexible individual (where the real action happens) to understand how it might affect them and what they can do to take charge of it themselves.

Any (I would say unrealistic) over-moralising type "campaign" (aka "war") does tend towards "any means necessary" kind of approaches, which ironically heightens the opportunity for exploitation by organisations for their own profit.

 

[arsesmart]

Well I would counter that by saying if we don’t enable them ( by not gambling and spreading the word to our kids that it’s nothing but stupid ) then they couldn’t flourish

I understand that you have every right to your opinion but in effect you are justifying and normalising something that should be tarred with the same brush as smoking


Change has to start somewhere !

I focus on our local football club and promote anti - gambling to the young men and women of that organisation

Further to this I remember seeing a piece on offshore companies allowing gambling on suburban soccer matches in Sydney etc. They even paid locals to film the games (uber-economy style) and of course got involved with fixing the results by paying off Joe-Schmoes to feign injury or pull off way-out coaching moves.

Yes the authorities try to crack down on this... but the web's so wide and nebulous (and profitable) how could they to any effective level?

Likewise my teenager lives half their social life through their phone. They have exposure to things I can't realistically hope to control. The best I can do is enable them to have a strong inner compass to navigate murky waters with surety.

 

[Sumwun]

Yeah but you insinuated that the Albanese govt. is to blame for a rise in gambling. They aren't, that industry has been rising for years on end and there are a lot of factors involved, chiefly that organisations such as the AFL continue to lean on their advertising dollars.
Can the government do more? Certainly but that is any government, who was in power for a decade before Albanese?

The AFL not only lean on the advertising dollars, they double dip by getting a cut of every bet placed on an AFL game.

 

[Dockeroo]

Further to this I remember seeing a piece on offshore companies allowing gambling on suburban soccer matches in Sydney etc. They even paid locals to film the games (uber-economy style) and of course got involved with fixing the results by paying off Joe-Schmoes to feign injury or pull off way-out coaching moves.

Yes the authorities try to crack down on this... but the web's so wide and nebulous (and profitable) how could they to any effective level?

Likewise my teenager lives half their social life through their phone. They have exposure to things I can't realistically hope to control. The best I can do is enable them to have a strong inner compass to navigate murky waters with surety.

No one is arguing that gambling should be banned or sent underground.

Just simply that the incestuous advertising of it is regulated. That’s all. Not too much to ask I don’t think.

Yeah but you insinuated that the Albanese govt. is to blame for a rise in gambling. They aren't, that industry has been rising for years on end and there are a lot of factors involved, chiefly that organisations such as the AFL continue to lean on their advertising dollars.
Can the government do more? Certainly but that is any government, who was in power for a decade before Albanese?

Not asking that gambling be banned. It’s the over the top adverts.

Also I could have hoped a left wing govt would put the public good ahead of the obvious powerful vested interests like the AFL but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
The 10 year lib govt were a joke, in the pockets of vested intwrests when it comes to issues like this. I expected nothing from them and they duly delivered.

 

[Cam Payne]

Some dead set crap gets written on here. People are sick of every second ad on the tele shoving bloody gambling down our throats and they want the bloody government to tighten regulations. It's not difficult to understand.

Goes underground??? **** me drunk.

 

[arsesmart]

No one is arguing that gambling should be banned or sent underground.

Just simply that the incestuous advertising of it is regulated. That’s all. Not too much to ask I don’t think.




Not asking that gambling be banned. It’s the over the top adverts.

Also I could have hoped a left wing govt would put the public good ahead of the obvious powerful vested interests like the AFL but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
The 10 year lib govt were a joke, in the pockets of vested intwrests when it comes to issues like this. I expected nothing from them and they duly delivered.

LOL out come the strawmen.

I think you would find people who want it banned. Hands up if you do.

My response to your post never mentions you wanting it banned though. Does it?

 

[Retzlaff]

'Social harm on an industrial scale': New gambling loss data intensifies pressure for reform

The average loss for each Australian adult hit $1,555 a year in 2022-2023, up from $1,395 in 2021-2022, new figures show.

www.sbs.com.au

Depressing reading here. Hard to understate how disappointing the Albanese govt have been on his issue.

The numbers are staggering.
$32 billion, THIRTY TWO BILLION DOLLARS, lost by Australians to gambling in 2022/23, up from $28b the year before.
Half a million Aussies have asked their bank to prevent them taking money out to gamble. That’s one in every 50 Australians.

Average Australian adult loses over $1500 a year gambling. It’s insane how this is allowed to continue unchecked.

These numbers are mind blowing. In a bad way. Gill McLachlan and co continue to add a few million a year to their salaries and bonuses in the gambling agencies on the back of this stealth tax on young vulnerable Australians.
It would make you sick, and of course the AFL are one of the biggest supporters of it all.

Yes but if Freo start winning next season that turns into a $32bn gain from gambling

 

[go_the_dockers]

Just on that, even watching draft videos, how was Tambling rated so highly ?
Just a typical flashy skinny half back that like all amazing youth, reached his ceiling by draft day.

Buddy was raw and could kick bombs from 50 already at 17.

Staggering how bad scouts are.

Similar to how Henry went top 10.

Lacked top end pace, but looked quick in u18
Skills were not top end. Tambling's skills were below par.
Low percentage of winning your own ball. Players can survive on the outside in u18, with out winning their own ball. There was a review on previous draft picks, that if you don't 40% your own ball in u18, you will struggle to make it in the AFL.