NOW to sometime later in the year (maybe) - Talk about anything

[jumperfan]

You do need someone behind the scenes working on a school or a junior club establishing a pathway. Very tough without. Whitehorse have a junior club, not sure how well linked they are. Just saw on the YJFL page instead of u15's then u17s (colts) like it used to be, its moved to u15, wu16's then "youth" u18's. Maybe they all piss off after this.

Forest Hill also have juniors so someone has to be down there putting in work, a player coaching one of the sides or something like that.

Nunawading are just going to battle to get two sides up each year paying peanuts to mercenaries until the money runs out. Sad, but true. The same thing will eventually happen to Croydon North/MLOC without a player pathway

Sorry for the doom and gloom, cricket clubs in the ringwood and district league are facing the same crisis. North ringwood have 6+ auskick type programs while other sides have none.

I played juniors for Whitehorse, we struggled to field teams past u/16 most years as most of our better players would move to stronger clubs, usually Kew Rovers or Beverley Hills. My team ended up folding after a year in which we were belted almost every week by teams that requested to be moved into Div 4 despite being competitive in the higher divisions.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Hence I think more direction is needed centrally from the league to even things out.

It all ends up at senior footy and what purpose does it serve anybody when one club has enough for three or four teams, while another can’t field two?

The result it just another club gone.

Unless we want to end up with clubs having two senior teams. And / or two reserves teams. Manipulating who they move between them and manipulating the results in two divisions.

Of course the bigger clubs will complain that “we’ve done all the hard work, why should we lose them” etc. That may well be true.*

But we need to balance out numbers if there are to be senior clubs.

Their reward can simply be the bigger their playing numbers, the bigger choice of the quality they get.

At some stage you have to peel them apart and down to one team per club. The EFNL seem to think Reserves is the time to do that. I reckon it’d be better done at U19 level. That’s the switch, junior club to senior club, Sunday to Saturday. I mean the thirds comp is now Under 19.5. Not long ago it was Under 18. I think they can handle the reality of senior footy and that’s not everybody you played Under 11s with can still play at the club.

* Something I also recognise is this “we’ve worked harder” attitude is, often, simply not true. Because success is not usually about working harder, it’s about playing things smart. There’s been an increase in professionalism at local level and that’s often just a case of a club having well credentialed, skilled people who know how to plan things properly, build and maintain networks, budget and increase revenue, set long-term strategies and follow them through.

They’re not necessarily working harder, they just have these skills from their day jobs and careers and have wisely implemented them at a footy club. And usually, those people walk through the club’s door by sheer dumb luck. Their kid plays there, etc.

Somebody at Vermont will tell you they work hard. And they do. But nobody will ever convince me they’re working harder than the crew at a Division 4 club. They’re not. In fact, they probably have more hands because people love to attach themselves to a successful outfit.

They were just very, very fortunate to have the right people walk through the door many years ago.

In principle, yes. But this assumes that it's easy to tell 20+ kids who've spent their junior career playing in your jumper that for the good of the competition they should now go and play in a different one. Lots of kids will simply stop playing, rather than leave a club where their mates are playing, even if their mates are regulars in the 1s and they're a regular in the 2s.

I had this convo with a senior coach last year, as we watched another club's 2nd 19s side playing. You never know which of the kids playing in the 2s are the ones who are keeping their mates in the 1s at the club.

 

[Bowlers Name]

Now lets talk about the real stuff BHRDCA cricket.Plenty of rumours around that Heatherdale,Vermont and even Blackiurn (Hansie) might be moving on and joining the RDCA.Sad to see cricket wise East Burwood,Blackburn North,East Box Hill and even Forest Hill struggling to field senior sides in the top grades and again no juniors is the main problem.

Really important football and cricket clubs as joint tenants work together to help each other senior /junior clubs.We have this at Mitcham ,I think Blackburn Vermont the same but for clubs like East Burwood FC with a senior cricket struggling not so.A Blackburn North Cricket Club joint tenant NunawadinGg Football Club. and both clubs no juniors.

Hard to see how it could happen unless the RDCA committee bypassed a club vote on it or the BHRDCA clubs were happy to settle for a start in Newey or Pascoe.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Did not know about that one but a couple of months ago a similar thing happened.I presume a rubbish truck had a fire in the back and they dumped the load on Dunlavin Road side and called the fire brigade.

Now lets talk about the real stuff BHRDCA cricket.Plenty of rumours around that Heatherdale,Vermont and even Blackiurn (Hansie) might be moving on and joining the RDCA.Sad to see cricket wise East Burwood,Blackburn North,East Box Hill and even Forest Hill struggling to field senior sides in the top grades and again no juniors is the main problem.

Really important football and cricket clubs as joint tenants work together to help each other senior /junior clubs.We have this at Mitcham ,I think Blackburn Vermont the same but for clubs like East Burwood FC with a senior cricket struggling not so.A Blackburn North Cricket Club joint tenant NunawadinGg Football Club. and both clubs no juniors.

Yes, middle of last week, it looked a bit like that. A heap of burning rubbish on the car parking area along Dunlavin Rd with three fire trucks and lights with a hose playing onto the burning rubbish pile.
Haven't heard anything about cricket movement. I can't see why teams from BHRDCA would want to move RDCA and travel huge distances to some clubs. Distances far exceed anything in the BHRDCA. Vermont left the BHRDCA and went there years ago and came back, why they'd want to do that again is a mystery.
Forest Hill have 4 teams that all seem to have been competitive they don't seem to be struggling and will be in Shield next year. Vermont were slaughtered by Box Hill North Super Kings in the Shield GF. Vermont took nearly 70 overs to crawl to 98 all out. BHNSK's took only 13 overs to reach 99.
Spider has said that East Burwood is going to become the State Headquarters Vets Cricket. Blackburn Nth and Nunawading are right next to primary and secondary schools. Nunawading are working on their Auskick and Cubs programs but will and need to do a lot more with them for many years to get kids into the club.
I'm not sure though that Nunawading will make it in time. A friend of mine ran all the junior programs at Beverley Hills when his boys played there. He thought he had something to offer when his boys went to Nuna to play after playing at East D, and volunteered to join the committee and help with junior development. He was told they wouldn't need his help. 4 years later they were going really bad, his sons had stopped playing and out of the blue they rang and asked if he wanted to join the committee and to help set up a new junior program. His wife was going through a major health crisis at the time and he declined. Pity because he was very successful at Beverly Hills and it would have been the perfect time to ramp up their junior development when when he first offered.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Bunk

Blackburn and Vermont the 2 biggest junior clubs in the efl. 2 sides coming out of 17.5 - where do they all go? Let them play 19s together then they move on - off the top of my head there is ex burner juniors at forest hill nunawading heathmont east burwood surrey and potentially Whitehorse as well as plenty at whitefriars and other ammo schoolboy clubs


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The ones at East Burwood are mostly returning to the club where they played junior football before being shanghaied by the usual suspects.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

In principle, yes. But this assumes that it's easy to tell 20+ kids who've spent their junior career playing in your jumper that for the good of the competition they should now go and play in a different one. Lots of kids will simply stop playing, rather than leave a club where their mates are playing, even if their mates are regulars in the 1s and they're a regular in the 2s.

These “kids” are pushing 18yo.

What do you tell them when they graduate out of U19s? You can’t field a second, third, fourth reserves team.

 

[Brown Bottle]

These “kids” are pushing 18yo.

What do you tell them when they graduate out of U19s? You can’t field a second, third, fourth reserves team.

I'm not sure how old you are, but in the life of a football club 17 and 18 year olds are kids, and they're in a transition window from junior to senior footy. Most of them aren't ready for senior footy. They're still in school, starting uni or apprenticeships... community clubs offer some stability for most of them.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm not sure how old you are, but in the life of a football club 17 and 18 year olds are kids, and they're in a transition window from junior to senior footy. Most of them aren't ready for senior footy. They're still in school, starting uni or apprenticeships... community clubs offer some stability for most of them.

It's Under 19.5s, there's barely a 17yo in it. They're 18yo and 19yo.

So what you are saying is that it's more of a junior grade than a senior grade? Multiple teams, etc?

I disagree, but obviously thats okay

 

[Voice of the G]

It's Under 19.5s, there's barely a 17yo in it. They're 18yo and 19yo.

So what you are saying is that it's more of a junior grade than a senior grade? Multiple teams, etc?

I disagree, but obviously thats okay

You will be surprised how many 17 year old players are playing U19.5 especially with the clubs with a 2nd side in D4 19.5.Understand where you are coming from but do you really think if EFNL clubs were restricted to 1 U19.5 side all these players missing out on a game will head off to another club. U18/U19 has been a difficult age group for a long time to manage and good to see some clubs like Surrey Park asking to play in a higher U19.5 group.Perhaps U19.5 should be graded like the junior grades are but then we have clubs getting upset because a few games they will playing away from the seniors/reserves.Why should a club that has a weak U19.5 side have to play against other U19.5 side in premier because their senior sides are premier.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

You will be surprised how many 17 year old players are playing U19.5 especially with the clubs with a 2nd side in D4 19.5.Understand where you are coming from but do you really think if EFNL clubs were restricted to 1 U19.5 side all these players missing out on a game will head off to another club. U18/U19 has been a difficult age group for a long time to manage and good to see some clubs like Surrey Park asking to play in a higher U19.5 group.Perhaps U19.5 should be graded like the junior grades are but then we have clubs getting upset because a few games they will playing away from the seniors/reserves.Why should a club that has a weak U19.5 side have to play against other U19.5 side in premier because their senior sides are premier.

Of course they would go GMac. Using your argument you wouldn't expect players from a club that didn't have the numbers for a full team to leave to play elsewhere, but they do. Tend to agree with you that U19.5 should be graded. It does nothing for a players development if they are regularly playing against either much stronger or much weaker teams.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

You will be surprised how many 17 year old players are playing U19.5 especially with the clubs with a 2nd side in D4 19.5.Understand where you are coming from but do you really think if EFNL clubs were restricted to 1 U19.5 side all these players missing out on a game will head off to another club. U18/U19 has been a difficult age group for a long time to manage and good to see some clubs like Surrey Park asking to play in a higher U19.5 group.Perhaps U19.5 should be graded like the junior grades are but then we have clubs getting upset because a few games they will playing away from the seniors/reserves.Why should a club that has a weak U19.5 side have to play against other U19.5 side in premier because their senior sides are premier.

Not suggesting you'd just shut the door and off you'd go.

I think if the league truly wants to revive U19s then there needs to be some effort made at league level to get some strategies and programs in place to better redeploy excess players across clubs.

If there's a club with 2x U19s and one up the road with none, the league and the lower div club obviously need to make the effort to put something in place to get them in. I'd put everything on the table for negotiation. How can we make it work? Where do they train? Where do they play? If they're in different divisions then there's no conflict.

Some sort of strategy which levels off the enormous size of some junior clubs as we approach senior footy and gives some sort of feed to smaller clubs for the players who, for want of a better term, just aren't good enough. It's in the best interests of everybody.

I'll add, there's no real advantage to any club having two U19s teams. If a player cannot get a game in your U19s and plays in the "U19 Reserves", I guarantee you he's never playing seniors for you in the next 15 years.

 

[eflreceiver]

Let's have the 2 U19's teams in the same Division playing each other, even better if a club can field two Reserve and Senior teams do the same. If you can have the numbers in abundance then hopefully you can play each other in a GF. sarcasm

 

[Brown Bottle]

Let's have the 2 U19's teams in the same Division playing each other, even better if a club can field two Reserve and Senior teams do the same. If you can have the numbers in abundance then hopefully you can play each other in a GF. sarcasm

This is a bit rich tbh... if the Rams were fielding 2 U19s teams we'd be hearing all about it

 

[Brown Bottle]

It's Under 19.5s, there's barely a 17yo in it. They're 18yo and 19yo.

So what you are saying is that it's more of a junior grade than a senior grade? Multiple teams, etc?

I disagree, but obviously thats okay

I'm saying it serves as a bridge between juniors and seniors and I think that's a good thing for a lot of players. Some make the transition easily - they're already driving themselves to games in their final year of juniors. Some still need mum & dad to complete their registration and take them to and from training and games

 

[eflreceiver]

This is a bit rich tbh... if the Rams were fielding 2 U19s teams we'd be hearing all about it

I'd still be against it because it turns to crap as you can't fit 60 into 28.

 

[Brown Bottle]

I'd still be against it because it turns to crap as you can't fit 60 into 28.

They don't all graduate from 19s to Seniors at the same time - and given that U19s is now a 16-a-side competition the number for two teams is closer to 40...

 

[mightyroos06]

In principle, yes. But this assumes that it's easy to tell 20+ kids who've spent their junior career playing in your jumper that for the good of the competition they should now go and play in a different one. Lots of kids will simply stop playing, rather than leave a club where their mates are playing, even if their mates are regulars in the 1s and they're a regular in the 2s.

I had this convo with a senior coach last year, as we watched another club's 2nd 19s side playing. You never know which of the kids playing in the 2s are the ones who are keeping their mates in the 1s at the club.

Nailed it on the head mate

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

After looking at the U19.5 fixtures, I'm more convinced than ever that there should be either some grading or a re adjustment of the fixtures in Div 2, 3 and 4. In Div 2 there are 7 teams, with one team having a bye each week. In Div 3, there are 8 teams with 2 teams having a bye each week. In Div 4 there are 9 teams with one team having a bye each week.
I can see why there are 2 byes each week in Div 3 (it happens when the seniors play a team that does not have an U19.5 side). Surely instead of kids missing out on a game these 2 bye teams should be playing each other. There would be quite a few of them with cars so transport shouldn't be a problem. In Div 2 it should be possible to move up Blackburn's second under 19.5 team from Div 4 so there isn't a bye every week in Div's 2 and 4. My reasoning is that there are a number of clubs with a second team in Div 4, but as Blackburn are the only Premier club with a team, they should go up to Div 2.
Other things that need to be considered are: where would Blackburn play if their ground is being used by their other team. Play them at a nearby venue either at Nunawading's ground or at East Burwood, the fixture would need to ensure that whenever East Burwood were at home, Blackburn plays away. No such problem at Nunawading, just make sure that they play before Nunawadings home games whenever possible.
Other things: Do Vermont have a second team? Their team in Prem Div is identified as Purple, which suggests that they have a second team, but a second team isn't shown in any other grade.
OR are all these byes because of a shortage of umpires?

 

[magpies2013]

Out of the 47 clubs 39 will have a u19s team when with all things considered is a pretty good effort. Teams without Doncaster Div 1, Templestowe, Boronia and Ringwood Div 2, Oakleigh Silvan Div 3, Forest Hill, Whitehorse, Nunawading and Croydon nth Div 4

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If regrading was to be done I would take a few steps

- Make it the top junior grade. Regrading and multiple teams has far more in common with juniors than seniors so just do it. I would make it Under 18s like it used to be. Juniors is already Under 17.5 now so it's not a huge jump. That makes a clear distinction between juniors and seniors - 18 years old where kids can drive themselves and be adults in the senior club, and kids in the junior club.

- As a junior grade it would be Sunday footy, but both clubs agree there's nothing wrong with playing on a Saturday before the senior club.

- Have the third senior grade at Under 21s or Under 23s. This will give most clubs enough numbers to field a team rather than having to find a team of kids in the narrow age group between 17.5 and 19.5 years of age. Senior clubs shouldn't have to worry about that. It will allow the young senior senior players to develop in this grade - better players will still play reserves or seniors.

I think that would be a better spproach rather than turning the old colts comp into a quasi-junior comp on Saturday mornings. If we already have juniors at U17.5 then we might as well just make it Under 18 and have a clear distinction between juniors and seniors at a logical age.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The Under 23s/21s idea is a little out of the box but I like it as a way of trying to keep players engaged into their early 20s.

The rest seems pretty logical.

 

[adogsfan5]

Out of the 47 clubs 39 will have a u19s team when with all things considered is a pretty good effort. Teams without Doncaster Div 1, Templestowe, Boronia and Ringwood Div 2, Oakleigh Silvan Div 3, Forest Hill, Whitehorse, Nunawading and Croydon nth Div 4

Doncaster managed to blood a group of 19s in their senior side last year, that will no doubt pay off in the long run but disappointing they haven’t been able to go round again…

 

[MortlockWatcher]

It has been an age-old problem in the Manningham region.

Going back to the start of the 1990s, it has always been hard for Bulleen-Templestowe, Doncaster, Doncaster East, Templestowe and the team that is now Old Yarra Cobras to field a Under 18/19 team.

The only reason that I can come up with is the concentration of private school students in the area who gravitate towards teams like Marcellin, Old Carey, Old Ivanhoe and the like to play together as Under 19s and into Club 18 or reserves football.

I played juniors for Bulleen-Templestowe until Under 14s in 1988 and by 1992, out of that team of 22 or so two were playing at Old Scotch mainly in the twos (they finished playing when they were 22), one played at what was then Bulleen United (he retired recently at 48) and one played bush and VFA football at senior level - the rest had given the game away by the end of their teens.

 

[localfootylegend23]

It has been an age-old problem in the Manningham region.

Going back to the start of the 1990s, it has always been hard for Bulleen-Templestowe, Doncaster, Doncaster East, Templestowe and the team that is now Old Yarra Cobras to field a Under 18/19 team.

The only reason that I can come up with is the concentration of private school students in the area who gravitate towards teams like Marcellin, Old Carey, Old Ivanhoe and the like to play together as Under 19s and into Club 18 or reserves football.

I played juniors for Bulleen-Templestowe until Under 14s in 1988 and by 1992, out of that team of 22 or so two were playing at Old Scotch mainly in the twos (they finished playing when they were 22), one played at what was then Bulleen United (he retired recently at 48) and one played bush and VFA football at senior level - the rest had given the game away by the end of their teens.

Glen Waverly area too. So many Asian migrants or other nationalities who don't give a F about sport

Old yarra has a proper school relationship now that wasn't quite there pre merge with Manningham (who used to be bulleen united yeah??) They will get a u19 team up sooner rather than later.

Couldn't agree more local kids who play their junior footy at those clubs nearly always go play u19s with their school. Bloody tough to get a side up

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Full fixtures are out now

Premier - 10 teams, aligned
Balwyn
Berwick
Blackburn
Doncaster East
East Ringwood
Noble Park
Norwood
Rowville
South Croydon
Vermont

D1 - 10 teams
Bayswater
Beaconsfield
Mitcham
Montrose
Mooroolbark
North Ringwood
Park Orchards
South Belgrave
Surrey Park (second team)
Wantirna South

No team - Doncaster

D2 - 7 teams
Croydon
East Burwood
Heathmont
Lilydale
Mulgrave
The Basin
Waverley Blues

No team - Boronia, Ringwood, Templestowe

D3 - 8 teams
Coldstream
Donvale
Fairpark
Ferntree Gully
Knox
Surrey Park
Upper Ferntree Gully
Warrandyte

No team - Oakleigh District, Silvan

D4 - 9 teams
Berwick (second team)
Blackburn (second team)
Chirnside Park
Ferntree Gully (second team)
Kilsyth
Mitcham (second team)
Scoresby
South Belgrave (second team)
Wantirna South (second team)

No team - Croydon North MLOC, Forest Hill, Nunawading, Whitehorse

Cliff, I think you're right, Vermont has possibly tried for a second team but it has fallen over. No reason why they can't, there's places in D3 and D4.

Also 10/10/8/8/8 would seem to make more sense than 10/10/7/8/9

Doncaster will always have a big battle in their area

Boronia, Ringwood... who would know what is going on there. Both have big junior clubs. Ringwood go on about being the best junior club in the EFNL. No U19s??

Oakleigh were known about when they entered, the league didn't care

Silvan I don't know, they're a bush club, I actually don't even know why they're in the EFNL at all

Croydon North MLOC, not sure how a "Old Collegians" club doesn't have U19s, if so then they never will

I'm sure that with the right strategy things could be balanced out between Blackburn, Mitcham, Surrey Park (two teams) and Forest Hill, Nunawading, Whitehorse (no teams). Six clubs a stone's throw from each other, how can the "seconds teams" be better redeployed as U19 teams for the D4 clubs. The "big" clubs probably won't have it but there's no long-term affect on them (they're not losing players, none of their U19 seconds will ever play seniors for them), and itcould help feed players to the D4 clubs. There is 47 clubs and you want to keep them fed with players.