OBJECTIVE opinions requested

[Ghostwriter]

have yyou been drinking tonight Joe?

Drinking and thinking, they don't call me the ideas man for nothing.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

If we regress this year, the club has to make a pretty big call IMO.

The Suns are coming like a steam train with GWS not far behind.

As shit as it sounds, if we miss the finals this year, it's got to be Boomers last year, it will definitely be Brad's and we are going to have to undergo a mini rebuild aka the Hawks 2004 to address the age profile at the top of the list, because those guys aren't going to be involved in the next tilt.

Not that many at the top age profile, are there? Spud getting close, Boomer and Drew - Grima, sadly - who else would be clearly not part of the next tilt?

 

[themilkman888]

Objectively?

That was a mentally poor performance. Too concerned with doing what the coaches want, and not wanting to make a mistake. They went into their shell.

They looked like a team who was so worked up to prove how much better they were, how much they deserved the hype and how much they improved on last yrs failings that they had mentally played the game well before the siren. They were focussed on proving something through a result, not through the actions before the result.

 

[Black2Blue]

Having not had a chance to get on BF since the game, I was wondering what sort of reaction we would have here, because I just found the whole game bizarre. Just came up with four plausible and implausible scenarios.

1. Our boys thought the *bombers would be a rabble on the back of the ASADA stuff but we ended up being the ones affected, perhaps by assuming they would be a mess like last year's game. (or perhaps they took the Sympathy thread to heart)
2. They were so busy following coaches instructions about where to position themselves, that they forgot about some other useful ideas like getting the ball, tackling the player in the sash guernsey, and running after the guy they are meant to be playing on.
3. Our new additions, Tudor and Lingy, are in fact opposition plants secretly trying to undermine our midfield and onfield leadership. (They won't be putting this game on their resumes in a hurry.)
4. They have been quietly reading all the pumping up of the club and taken it to heart, cutting out and sticking all those top 4 predictions on their bedroom walls with some sort of smug satisfaction.

Of course there are the points others have been raising - Brad can't go to the next step with his coaching (POSSIBLY), our senior group are soft (SEEMINGLY), or our team is just not good enough (BLOODY WELL HOPE NOT)

All in all, this 10 day visit to Melbuntown has turned into a bloody wake.

 

[WesternRoo]

Maybe all these players we 'snared' supposedly later than they should have been picked in the drafts is because they just are not that good.

Atley, Bastinac, mckenzie, wright and even Ziebell and Cunnington have to have huge question marks over their top end ability. If we were truly honest, all of them are C graders, with the exception of Ziebell who is probably a B-

If these guys have peaked, we are stuffed. Our eggs are heavily in that basket.

And how is Sam Gibson at 28 considered in that bracket of players for our next flag?

Thompson is elite, but he is 28 this year, Grima is handy but he is 29. What's our long term plan there? Cam Delaney can only play one of those positions and is he really good enough to hold down a key post in a premiership team? Hansen has never been good one on one. Some massive questions there.

Petrie is probably nearing the end and black isn't a key position player, neither is Wood. Can Tarrant lead the forward line? Is Daw up to it? How much longer will we get 50 goals a year out of Thomas.

Boomer, Wells and Dal Santo are not going to lead our tilt to a successful era. Wells will probably play longer than the other 2, but we know Wellsy's ceiling by now.

I think there are some major issues that are about to become very apparent.

 

[Passmore]

There are a number of blokes in the 50-100 games range who need to be asked pointedly whether they are really hungry for success or are they just happy being AFL footballers.

It's easy to pick shit through everything after a loss, but is there too much practical joking down there? Too much of the "buried treasure" crap? Do teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong carry on like this?

Have they spent all summer drinking their own bath water, reading the various prognosis predicting a top 4 finish?

The club can't do any more than they currently are to lay it on for these blokes to succeed.

I really believe that physically this group is good enough to achieve. They need to get harder mentally on and off the field. Friday night was a rude awakening. It's line in the sand time. The next month is going to tell us a lot.

 

[RobZombie]

Good post, here's a question, when Brad first coached North he had Goldstein at CHB, and as you state he plays one ruck now with Drew the chop out, does Brad understand the ruck position at all

Do I think a professional full-time coach fails to understand structuring a starting 22? No.

Am I frustrated that our tall stocks are out of balance and a 31-year-old with bad feet is STILL the backup? Yes.

Would we have been a better side in 2012 and 2013 with Currie or Daw in for Tarrant full time? I doubt it.

 

[RobZombie]

It's not a bad list by any means, it in fact is more then capable of being top 8, but with bad coaching and no real stars its far from ever getting close to being a genuine premiership threat.

This is the nub of the matter for mine. At the end of the day, we have rebuilt through the double whammy of mid-table finishes and compromised drafts.

Taking a totally arbitrary rule of thumb that top 10 draft picks equates to likely A-graders, we have Wells (2), Hansen (3), Cunnington (5), Ziebell (9) from before the first draft to be totally gutted by GCS. Hansen aside, and even he's handy, I'm OK with the notion that they are all A-graders more often than not. A-/B+ at worst. Add Swallow, Boomer and LT as lower picks who have become A-graders. None of those 7 are close to the absolute best at their position except maybe LT. Since the compromised drafts began we have BMac, Atley, Garner and Luke Mac as our top picks. A slow burner, an engima, and two too early to tell. And I'd be willing to bet that if not for the minidrafts we would have gotten Luke in the 2nd round.

So yeah, I think we'll probably end up through bad timing to finish with a list that's short of flag potential. Still think it has top 4 potential if things get straightened out.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Atley, Bastinac, mckenzie, wright and even Ziebell and Cunnington have to have huge question marks over their top end ability. If we were truly honest, all of them are C graders, with the exception of Ziebell who is probably a B-

I reckon Cunnington has passed Ziebell.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Supporters are asking where will we get the money to pay out Brad's contract, it's not beyond the realms that he walks and we don't have to pay out

the full term, also not beyond my thought process that Drew Petrie gets traded to a club with a 'window', Wells could be another to be traded away,

cleanout is coming and it won't be only onfield.

He isn't going to do that....a contract is a contract.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Not that many at the top age profile, are there? Spud getting close, Boomer and Drew - Grima, sadly - who else would be clearly not part of the next tilt?

McMahon....

 

[Kimbo]

Objective opinion wanted. On BigFooty. Haaahaaaahaaahaaaa.

 

[Kimbo]

In some ways, Friday's loss wasn't necessarily as bad as it looked. No really, bear with me:

It's fixable, right?

Despite being so comprehensively outworked, out-possessed and outplayed, we were never really opened up... we set up the press to shut down forward options pretty effectively.

Now, I'm not convinced that the defensive system they went with was ideal, and of course it came at the expense of other kinds of defensive efforts, like direct pressure on the keepings-off game, but at least it's a system. Needs fixing.

There we go! But seriously, I think the semblance of defensive structure was there, but mentally it cost us our contested game, and the offensive side that can come from it.

I am worried about WTF we are doing with our talls. Going in with 2 tall forwards, one of whom needs to spend time in the ruck, seems stupid to me. Relying on Dish AGAIN to be the chop-out ruck is madness.

I am worried that the selection balance between backing the blokes you've picked and making some hard calls at the selection table is going to be an issue again. I am worried that we won't have enough guys demanding to be promoted from Werribee and NB.

I thought this was the biggest issue against a reasonable tall backline and with time and space to bring the ball into the forward line taken away, two talls with one p/t rucking was a nightmare. Currie or Tippett (with Lachie forward) had to play in my opinion. The flipside of the 'not enough guys demanding selection' is the failure to give some a chance. I can well imagine the disillusionment if they don't get the opportunities.

 

[RobZombie]

The flipside of the 'not enough guys demanding selection' is the failure to give some a chance. I can well imagine the disillusionment if they don't get the opportunities.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[shintemaster]

The flipside of the 'not enough guys demanding selection' is the failure to give some a chance. I can well imagine the disillusionment if they don't get the opportunities.

100% agree. We play to many wishes and not enough workers. Did the same thing last year playing guys that we thought would make us good if only things clicked instead of soldiers that could make us win games now.

 

[Fart Cummings]

to me it felt like they all thought someone else was going to do it for them! another thing that pissed me off a bit was Dal Santo on game day on Sunday they asked him if he asked Goldy how he was feeling with his shoulder! and he said to be honest i didnt notice he was injured? do they no talk to each other on the ground? how to you not notice that?

 

[muttley45]

I get the feeling that the zone defence plan is stuffing us up big time, emphasis on guarding space and corralling, hoping for a skill error turnover, rather than chasing, tackling, harassing, and disposessing, and forcing skill errors and turnovers, we are actually pretty good when we d get a turnover, and usually score heavily from them, get back to man on man defence, as most finals are played anyway, maybe zone up a bit for kickins, but give it a rest for the bulk of the game, and dont be so stubborn about not tagging gun players, most successful teams do it

 

[Cool Kangas]

Objective opinion wanted. On BigFooty. Haaahaaaahaaahaaaa.

Well...one can only ask

 

[QueenslandRoo]

.

Best explanation I've seen of the game plan.

 

[QueenslandRoo]

Having not had a chance to get on BF since the game, I was wondering what sort of reaction we would have here, because I just found the whole game bizarre. Just came up with four plausible and implausible scenarios.

1. Our boys thought the *bombers would be a rabble on the back of the ASADA stuff but we ended up being the ones affected, perhaps by assuming they would be a mess like last year's game. (or perhaps they took the Sympathy thread to heart)
2. They were so busy following coaches instructions about where to position themselves, that they forgot about some other useful ideas like getting the ball, tackling the player in the sash guernsey, and running after the guy they are meant to be playing on.
3. Our new additions, Tudor and Lingy, are in fact opposition plants secretly trying to undermine our midfield and onfield leadership. (They won't be putting this game on their resumes in a hurry.)
4. They have been quietly reading all the pumping up of the club and taken it to heart, cutting out and sticking all those top 4 predictions on their bedroom walls with some sort of smug satisfaction.

Of course there are the points others have been raising - Brad can't go to the next step with his coaching (POSSIBLY), our senior group are soft (SEEMINGLY), or our team is just not good enough (BLOODY WELL HOPE NOT)

All in all, this 10 day visit to Melbuntown has turned into a bloody wake.

Point 1? Nah
Point 2? Sounds plausible
Point 3? Don't be silly. Anthony and Gibson are already there as opposition plants
Point 4? Listening to Drew Petrie - "It's only round 1" - today really worried me. Yes it's round 1 and if you're disinterested in round 1, what the hell are you going to be like come round 22? In a coma?

The Melbourne visit? Did you do the MCG tour and the sports museum? Spent four hours there. It was awesome!