Politics Occupy Wall Street

[Daytripper]

Why do you only comment on the protesters use of sound and vision to influence people and yet you remain silent on the advertisement industry doing likewise?

Because this (Big Footy) is primarily an internet message board that relies on the written word.
The advertising industry does not primarily rely on the written word.

I don't have a problem with the actual protesters using slogans or pictures.

 

[Little Big John]

Because this (Big Footy) is primarily an internet message board that relies on the written word.
The advertising industry does not primarily rely on the written word.

I don't have a problem with the actual protesters using slogans or pictures.

I would posit that both advertising and internet message boards are mediums for communication, and will use whatever tools most effectively communicate their respective messages.

If you're attempting to argue that Big Footy is the "gatekeeper" of the written word, well, I wish you luck on your quest.

 

[Daytripper]

If you're attempting to argue that Big Footy is the "gatekeeper" of the written word, well, I wish you luck on your quest.

No, I'm not attempting to argue that.

 

[Little Big John]

fair 'nuff.

 

[Toriola]

This is going to resonate...

Well they have their martyr now. It's quite disgusting how the protesters are exploiting this guy's injury in order to radicalize their own ranks that will no doubt drive them towards further acts of violence resulting in more injuries. It's called "waving the bloody shirt" and in mob situations, that's tantamount to shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater. His bloodied image will be mass-produced and put on signs to rile up more angry protesters.

Oh and... "It's not known exactly what type of object struck Olsen or who might have thrown it, though Guy's group said it was lodged by officers. Several small skirmishes had broken out in the night with police clearing the area by firing tear gas and protesters throwing rocks and bottles at them."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1034003.html

 

[Sydneyfan]

The way I see it you've got a US Government that is now solely preoccupied with maintaining & consolidating its financial & geopolitical hegemony along with securing access to non-renewable resources even if it's to the detriment of its own citizens who are poor, disadvantaged, minorities, or otherwise fallen on hard times. The numbers of these citizens are raising by the day but as the Government has shown it is now more prepared than ever to maintain the status quo, keeping Wall Street happy and ticking along & the US actively working on consolidating its power base overseas.

Protests, freedom movements or rallies are fine - both at home and abroad - provided they fall in line with the US Government's agenda, hence the Tea Party are given free rein as they're nothing more than a bunch of useful idiots. Protests, freedom movements or rallies which so much as question the status quo are to be ignored and/or denounced by the media, mocked, suppressed and put down violently if necessary.

Perhaps it's always been the case but it seems more transparent than ever. The American people deserve better and I commend the brave folks who are prepared to stand up for what they believe & what are the ideals the country was founded upon.

Occupy Wall Street, LA, Oakland, Chicago, etc. are worthy causes and I'd argue the same in Europe. The Occupy movements in Australia seem largely incoherent, disjointed and directionless in comparison as many of the real issues currently afflicting the US and Europe and not (as) apparent here. But, I give credit to those who have made the effort to stand up for what they believe in and found it telling how strongly the NSW and Victorian Police have moved to shut down the Occupy Sydney & Melbourne movements before they gained any significant traction.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The protection of their established status -- money, minerals, assets, financial streams (war, weapons, oil, construction) -- will not be handed back. They'll bring in military force if need be to quell the slaves. They worked hard for this, for where the world is at right now. There are big plans in the pipeline that owe themselves to how it is. They will not let that be jeopardized.

The people will revolt regardless, and they will fight the good fight.

 

[rayven]

Occupy Wall Street, LA, Oakland, Chicago, etc. are worthy causes and I'd argue the same in Europe. The Occupy movements in Australia seem largely incoherent, disjointed and directionless in comparison as many of the real issues currently afflicting the US and Europe and not (as) apparent here. But, I give credit to those who have made the effort to stand up for what they believe in and found it telling how strongly the NSW and Victorian Police have moved to shut down the Occupy Sydney & Melbourne movements before they gained any significant traction.

The occupy wall street started off just like the Melbourne and Sydney one. Our "law" enforcement learnt from New York who hoped that giving as little attention as possible (apart from labeling them hippies and such ) would see it dwindle away to something talked about over bong sessions.

It didn't go away and it won't now. As said in a few songs about revelution "courage is contagious". Everyday more and more people realise that the Arab spring is about the same things the occupy wall street is......

It is of interesting reading what the Bahranians and the Tunisians are against...


We have a common enemy. An enemy is what it is.

It's a war against or if you like, amongst the class system . The balance is all out of whack.

NAB posted record profit today. Yesterday the NSW pokie machine barons rallied against losing their profits, the profits they make from the lower and less fortunate.

When I was a volunteer for Nick Xenophons re election to sa parliment i read some reports about where most of the pokie revenue in SA is garnished from.

Suburbs like Port Adelaide and Elizabeth,Salisbury and Gawler...all the ghetto's basicly. You'll find Mt Druitt and the like high up in revenue raising areas for pokies in NSW.

Google it, the report should be online somewhere.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

A pathological hatred of the West, and in particular the US.

It's nowhere NEAR a 'pathological hatred of the West' as you put it, Trippy. More like a complete and utter mistrust of the aims of 'Western' foreign policy. Mistrust that's well-placed and well-justified, by the way.

 

[OldBlueFan]

A threefold increase means very different things depending on the base you're starting from. The CGT growth in the 2000s dwarfs the growth in the 1990s, which is backed up by the key statistic that you're ignoring - the growth in GGT revenues relative to total tax revenues.

And yet you accuse me of manipulating data. Hilarious.

Let's see what the data has to say on the subject shall we? Looking at Commonwealth government revenue:

YEAR-------CGT as % of Total Tax
95----------0.72%
96----------0.97% (+33%)
97----------1.38% (+43%)
98----------2.34% (+70%)
99----------2.83% (+21%)
00----------3.01% (+6%)

Mmmmm, so far so good, consistent increases. Now, let's introduce a discount on CGT:

01----------2.05% (-32%)
02----------1.84% (-10%)
03----------1.70% (-8%)
04----------2.43% (+43%)
05----------2.88% (+18%)
06----------4.24% (+47%)
07----------6.07% (+43%)
08----------4.21% (-31%)

Oh look, the percentage of total revenue figure lines up almost perfectly with the raw dollar figures. That is ... growth in the percentage is FLAT FOR 4 YEARS after the introduction of the discount. Admittedly, it does resume growing after that, but no better than what was being acheived pre-2000.

And now we see why the stat you quoted ended at 2008 ...

09----------0.72% (-49%)

Data manipulation indeed ...

Sources:

Taxation Revenue, Australia, 1997-98
Taxation Revenue, Australia, 2003-04
Taxation Revenue, Australia, 2008-09

What is hilarious is that you didn't even bother to check whether your claim was backed up by the facts before making your completely false accusation that I was manipulating the data.

But of course, being a mod means never having to say you're sorry

 

[Rob]

Like I said, it's hard to get a protest going in Perth because everyone has a job.

[YOUTUBE]R1yzZRArzSI[/YOUTUBE]

Maybe they'll do a little better tomorrow with the public holiday.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yes yes, keep all the liitle worker bees droning away to make their honey so they may think but not have the time to act.

MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Exe Gesis]

Something I read.

You have heard of a group called the GAP Band.

Well GAP is an acronym that stands for GREENWOOD, ARCHER and PINE, which was the epicenter of the original “Black Wall Street” in Tulsa Oklahoma back in 1921.

This completely SEGREGATED Black community had

“Hundreds of prominent Black Owned businesses…

black lawyers, realtors, doctors, and other professionals.” Many owned planes and many other “luxury” items.

Well there were some members of the Ku Klux Klan and their sympathizers that resented all of this prosperity and stormed and attacked it, completely burning it to the ground.

This event is known as the infamous Tulsa Riots of 1921.

Some members of the racist mob even stole some of the Black owned airplanes that were there and

“used them to throw cocktail bombs & dynamite sticks from the sky.”

Thus the origin of the hit song from the Gap Band titled…

‘You Dropped A Bomb On me’.

Similar incidents were carried out in other prosperous but segregated Black communities around the country. The Rosewood Massacre in Florida back in 1923 is another notable example.

Learn your history bruh. The REAL history, that we never hear about in commercials and most history books.

They would rather us just learn about Sit-Ins and Marches

 

[Unstable]

The system needs to change, we are heading towards self destruction.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Well they have their martyr now. It's quite disgusting how the protesters are exploiting this guy's injury in order to radicalize their own ranks that will no doubt drive them towards further acts of violence resulting in more injuries. It's called "waving the bloody shirt" and in mob situations, that's tantamount to shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater. His bloodied image will be mass-produced and put on signs to rile up more angry protesters.

Oh and... "It's not known exactly what type of object struck Olsen or who might have thrown it, though Guy's group said it was lodged by officers. Several small skirmishes had broken out in the night with police clearing the area by firing tear gas and protesters throwing rocks and bottles at them."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1034003.html

exploiting that he got shot in the face by police during a peaceful demonstration that was smashed up by excessive force???
maybe they should sweep it under the carpet ya???

 

[Flinch]

The system needs to change, we are heading towards self destruction.

Look on the brightside, pollution will be down

 

[Upton Sinclair]

Yes yes, keep all the liitle worker bees droning away to make their honey so they may think but not have the time to act.

MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[catman 71]

Without wars !!!??? wait til your bowels are poking out of your gut in some battle where you,ve been slaughtered over someone elses money.
Without police ??? every day some person gets attacked, a lot of the time in their own homes , judges give them a slap , the cops arrest but nothing happens to change the punishments.
Without the RICH ????????????????( heres a goodie) without the nuts and bolts and cogs and sprockets , meaning the people who actually perform the work, well without that there are no rich people.
Got it good? to a degree, but it could be a lot better and at the moment its just getting worse.
In this lucky country of ours its nearly impossible for an average new couple to buy a house, when houses stop being built bought and sold the community and its sysrtem collapses.
Hasn,t happened yet better spread the wealth before we,re all stuffed rich mongrels included.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1) When will that happen? Why would I need to go to war? I'm not part of the military, and we don't have conscription. Don't know what the point of your first paragraph is.

2) But that's not the police's fault, but the courts, who hire leftist "bleeding-heart" judges.

3) I agree that workers help make a company rich. But both parties need the other. If there is no rich businessman to start a company, then there are no jobs to hire people.

People often need money to start a business, then they can employ workers who can help the business be profitable. The ideal situation is for the employer and the employees to look after each other, for mutual interest. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen (and neither side can claim that they have always done things right).

There are plenty of lazy employees who hurt a business too.

4) You say that it is hard for the average new couple to buy a house. Well, when my single brother wanted to buy a house, he kept mising out because he was out-bidded by newlyweds with dual incomes. So it seems that many of them can still buy houses.

 

[greenred]

The occupy wall street started off just like the Melbourne and Sydney one. Our "law" enforcement learnt from New York who hoped that giving as little attention as possible (apart from labeling them hippies and such ) would see it dwindle away to something talked about over bong sessions.

It didn't go away and it won't now. As said in a few songs about revelution "courage is contagious". Everyday more and more people realise that the Arab spring is about the same things the occupy wall street is......

It is of interesting reading what the Bahranians and the Tunisians are against...

We have a common enemy. An enemy is what it is.

It's a war against or if you like, amongst the class system . The balance is all out of whack.

NAB posted record profit today. Yesterday the NSW pokie machine barons rallied against losing their profits, the profits they make from the lower and less fortunate.

When I was a volunteer for Nick Xenophons re election to sa parliment i read some reports about where most of the pokie revenue in SA is garnished from.

Suburbs like Port Adelaide and Elizabeth,Salisbury and Gawler...all the ghetto's basicly. You'll find Mt Druitt and the like high up in revenue raising areas for pokies in NSW.

Google it, the report should be online somewhere.

What's the problem with where the pokie revenue comes from? The pokie barons don't force anyone to play and if people are addicted there is help available. People need to learn that sometimes they are their own worst enemies - they need to help themselves. Give up the gambling, give up the cigarettes and put that money towards an education or gaining some more skills so that you can work your way up in life. The opportunities are there but people need to be willing to take them.

 

[Caesar]

That is ... growth in the percentage is FLAT FOR 4 YEARS after the introduction of the discount. Admittedly, it does resume growing after that, but no better than what was being acheived pre-2000.

I've already pointed out that changes to tax regimes take several years to flow through the system.

The growth in the 00s is similar percentage-wise, but as I also previously pointed out it's working off a far higher base. That's even before you factor in that the the expiry of pre-85 grandfathering provisions is ever diminishing, and far less of an impact on growth in the 00s than the 90s.

So yeah, we've already been over all this.

And now we see why the stat you quoted ended at 2008 ...

09----------0.72% (-49%)

Of course I wouldn't include subsequent years. The GFC utterly gutted the capital value of assets, rendering any historical comparison of CGT data to the previous 2 decades meaningless.

Swing and a miss.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I've already pointed out that changes to tax regimes take several years to flow through the system.

The growth in the 00s is similar percentage-wise, but as I also previously pointed out it's working off a far higher base. That's even before you factor in that the the expiry of pre-85 grandfathering provisions is ever diminishing, and far less of an impact on growth in the 00s than the 90s.

So yeah, we've already been over all this.

Let's see what you actually said IN FULL:

A threefold increase means very different things depending on the base you're starting from. The CGT growth in the 2000s dwarfs the growth in the 1990s, which is backed up by the key statistic that you're ignoring - the growth in GGT revenues relative to total tax revenues.

And yet you accuse me of manipulating data. Hilarious.

I've now shown that both statistics show the same thing, but there's nothing from you to acknowledge that I've not misrepresented the data in any way, just more glib lines ... how very mature.

Growth as a percentage is ALL that matters. You're even conflating 2 arguments here and contradicting yourself. The growth in the 2000's only dwarfs the growth in the 90's in real dollar terms. As the stats show, the 90's growth as a percentage was actually better. Therefore, if total government revenues were higher in the 90's the real dollar increases would have been higher as well.

So what do you want to measure things in "real dollars", which when I did that, you accused me of "ignoring the key statistic", or do you want to measure it as a percentage of total revenues? You can't have it both ways.

Why won't you just admit that you picked a bad example as a demonstration of "tax reductions lead to increased revenues"?

 

[Caesar]

I said the growth in CGT revenues relative to total tax revenues was the key statistic. It is. There is massive growth in that area well into the 00s, which is exponential (therefore dwarfing the growth in the 90s in real dollar terms) and flies in the face of diminishing growth returns from the expiry of grandfathering.

I'm still not seeing you say anything that actually contradicts anything I've stated. The figures you're posting are backing up what I'm saying.

 

[Donners]

What's the problem with where the pokie revenue comes from? The pokie barons don't force anyone to play and if people are addicted there is help available. People need to learn that sometimes they are their own worst enemies - they need to help themselves. Give up the gambling, give up the cigarettes and put that money towards an education or gaining some more skills so that you can work your way up in life. The opportunities are there but people need to be willing to take them.

Why would people want to accept personal responsibility when they can blame others for their self-induced circumstances?

 

[OldBlueFan]

I said the growth in CGT revenues relative to total tax revenues was the key statistic. It is. There is massive growth in that area well into the 00s, which is exponential (therefore dwarfing the growth in the 90s in real dollar terms) and flies in the face of diminishing growth returns from the expiry of grandfathering.

A threefold increase means very different things depending on the base you're starting from. The CGT growth in the 2000s dwarfs the growth in the 1990s, which is backed up by the key statistic that you're ignoring - the growth in GGT revenues relative to total tax revenues.

Average growth as a percentage of total tax revenue (1996 - 2000): 34.67%
Average growth as a percentage of total tax revenue (2004 - 2007): 38.03%

Wow, yeah it really does DWARF it ... by a whopping 3%.

Now, let's add in the year that you actually stated in the first place:
Average growth as a percentage of total tax revenue (2004 - 2008): 24.30%

Now let's add in the negative impacts of introducing the discounts in the first place:
Average growth as a percentage of total tax revenue (2001 - 2008): 8.95%

I'm still not seeing you say anything that actually contradicts anything I've stated.

Then you must be blind.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Real average household income between 1979 and 2007 in the US:

Top 1%: 275% increase (9.82% per annum)
81 - 99%: 65% increase (2.32% per annum)
21 - 80%: 40% increase (1.43% per annum)
0 - 20%: 18% increase (0.64% per annum)

The share of national income actually fell for all but the top 20% and even then, those in the 81 - 99% range remained almost flat. The top 1% are the ONLY sector of the population who actually saw their share of national income grow significantly, and it grew by a whopping 10%.

Source (US Congressional Budget Office): Trends in the Distribution of Household Income Between 1979 and 2007

And people wonder why folks are occupying wall street

I wonder what the figures are for Australia?