Ok, so was it as bad as you thought?

[Lavender Bushranger]

The saga is over I reckon.

Certainly, the narrative being run in the media today is that it's all positive stuff for Essendon here on in and it seems that that little dwarf Collier re-signing is the AFL equivalent of that dude dancing down the tram tracks when the World War finished.

It's over.

The suspensions are being served. Done.

Any legal action by players will be fought between the insurance company and the players, and of the 12 remaining 'drug cheats', Essendon appear very confident to retain all of them.

They've run out on the park and not only have they not been wallopped by 100 points each week - they've already won a game! Their fans are seeing a light both on and off-field.


The talk back on SEN this arvo was both nauseating and a bit baffling.

Fans were ringing up and speaking about the club with extreme optimism and excitement, whilst the hosts of the show were repeatedly spewing out nonsense about Essendon's future and how well they've done as if the last 4 years of utter failure and incompetence hadn't even occurred.


The reason it was baffling is that there was a sense of surprise that an AFL club could come out the end of a tumultuous period and begin to rebuild! I mean, like that's never happened before.

It was also baffling because in between all the gushing, gobbing and back slapping, they appeared to not notice that over the past 4 years, the following has occurred:

CEO gone.
Football department gone.
Two presidents gone.
Coach gone.
Carlisle gone.
Ryder gone.
Melksham gone.
Crameri gone.
Monfries gone.
Recruited Gwilt, Cooney, Giles and Chapman.

Limp wristed AFL 'penalties' aside, Essendon went from being a team on the rise and looking to realise that potential when sitting 12-0, to being completely uncompetitive in a Premiership sense for 4 years and back into rebuild mode!

There was a sense in the narrative that 'gee they've come out of all this well haven't they?'


Well the question is, have they?

What could have possibly been worse??

Was the impact of this saga on Essendon as bad as you thought it would be?

Bear in mind, that they had the support of the AFL to ensure the fallout would be minimal - yet the above all still occurred!

So now that the saga is over, back in 2012 when this story broke, what did you expect the damage to be?

I can't imagine or see how it could have been any worse.

 

[The 747]

It could have been much worse, they could have been done for everything they took.

 

[hellboy1975]

I certainly think it is time this is over, and on most counts it is I'd say. I still think the Brownlow issue needs to be sorted before it will be finally put to bed by the media.

As for the penalties handed out - I think they are largely in line with what I expected, albeit they came later than I would have liked.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I certainly think it is time this is over, and on most counts it is I'd say. I still think the Brownlow issue needs to be sorted before it will be finally put to bed by the media.

As for the penalties handed out - I think they are largely in line with what I expected, albeit they came later than I would have liked.

The saga itself will probably never be over. There'll always be something bobbing up over the next 2 decades.

But in terms of the direct impact and damage to Essendon, it's over.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

If it IS over, what have we learnt? We still don't know what the AFL's stance is, what their relationship with ASADA is. Are clubs (and the AFL) expected to cooperate with ASADA investigations, or can they just tell them to get stuffed? What penalties would be expected should this happen again?

What are player obligations? Do clubs have to inform the AFL when they co-opt people such as Dank to assist with conditioning? What are the obligations of these people and what standards are they expected to meet? What ethics do club doctors have to display? These are just some of the many questions left unanswered in this entire episode.

It is IS over, then all it means to me is the AFL have yet again successfully buried another body in the back yard, and we are no better educated than we were 3 years ago.

 

[Ultimatt]

The saga cost them a lot financially too but I think a big part that helped them was the dollars kept coming in. The fans were Hirded in with an us vs them mentality that kept memberships and crowd numbers high. Sponsors stayed on board. That gave them money to fight it in court and in the public eye with the PR campaign, and they had justification to maintain their course since the members were still on board.

The doomsday scenario was always the club going broke from player lawsuits and a sharp drop in members. They've escaped that. IMO they would've come out of this saga a lot cleaner had they let Evans make his deal with Demetriou/Andruska but that's hindsight. I'm sure if they had their time again they would've done things differently, done things better, but the club still exists. Membership numbers will swell again next year. I think it's fair that Essendon fans are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Beerfish]

Nup. Done pretty well actually all things considered. Drafted some great looking players in the meantime. Got an AFL approved coach with premiership credentials. Top up with players from recently successful clubs to teach the young guys for a year. Getting to pay our players compensation outside the salary cap after they all recommit is the icing on the cake I think.

 

[less than zero]

the saga is over? nooooooooooo let's kick it off again with yet 1 more thread to add to 6555,000 with point by point form so we can discuss it all again, because we just never tire of the schadenfreude!!

but just to answer your question "could it be any worse?" of course
- we could be Carlton

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

They have come out of it incredibly well, due largely to the AFL penalties being laughably light. Harsh for "governance", but ridiculously tiny for systemic doping.

This year is a write-off, but as yet they have probably lost no players to the saga over the medium term - the players who left weren't any more than other clubs, finally removed a complete dud of a coach.
They are basically set up so that by 2018 it will be as though nothing had ever happened. Compare that to Carlton, who were ruined for the best part of a decade for crimes which (in a moral sense at least) were nowhere near as great as EFC's.

And Jobe will even keep his Brownlow. How the hell is that possible when the final arbiter has declared he was doped through the year he won it. That is complete contempt for the umpire's decision.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Our membership is going great, finances under control, supporters standing by club, most of the suspended players are looking like they'll return to the club, historically anti-Essendon journos like Damian Barrett are getting behind our feel good story, young guns drafted during the saga like Parish and Z.Merrett going gangbusters, and we get to add another 1 possibly 2 top five draft picks to the squad this year as we rebuild our list.

Looks like Essendon are going to be stronger than ever heading in to the future, with a young list full of exciting kids. Good times.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

They are basically set up so that by 2018 it will be as though nothing had ever happened.

Just to stop you there.....

Isn't that THE biggest damage possible though?

They were on the up, with some big names in their prime and looking to be a genuine threat within 2-3 years.

But then they got caught. And the next 4 years were a write off. Here we are, 4 years later and they're at rock bottom.

How long does it take to go from rock bottom to being a genuine contender? 5 years?

And if that doesn't eventuate with this group when they get 5-10 of the drug cheats back, then they'll be rebuilding again in 4 years.


I think that's as big an impact as you could ever hope you cop.

What could have been worse than a decade of non-competition on-field?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Our membership is going great, finances under control, supporters standing by club, most of the suspended players are looking like they'll return to the club, historically anti-Essendon journos like Damian Barrett are getting behind our feel good story, young guns drafted during the saga like Parish and Z.Merrett going gangbusters, and we get to add another 1 possibly 2 top five drafts to the squad this year as we rebuild our list.

Looks like Essendon are going to be stronger than ever heading in to the future, with a young list full of exciting kids. Good times.

But wouldn't they have been 'stronger than ever' even if they didn't get caught cheating?

All other clubs are.

 

[Jobe Watson]

But wouldn't they have been 'stronger than ever' even if they didn't get caught cheating?

All other clubs are.

I think this saga has just brought the club and its supporters closer together, and we'll be a stronger club because of it. We're on the down slope of a hill that has taken 4 years to climb and there's nothing but smooth roads ahead. Don the Sash.

 

[SBYM]

What I would be concerned about is the input of the players coming in after so long away.

Sure they'll be fit as hell, but I doubt very much they'll be able to just dominate as if they didn't spend the previous year sitting on the sidelines.

Will be very interesting to see how they go actually.

That and it has only been four games. It is a long season and they could spend the next five months having their arses handed to them...(edit; they are playing Collingwood this week, so maybe the pain will start next week...)

 

[blueboy25]

I think this saga has just brought the club and its supporters closer together, and we'll be a stronger club because of it. We're on the down slope of a hill that has taken 4 years to climb and there's nothing but smooth roads ahead. Don the Sash.

Jobe losing his brownlow, players suing the club, a story that will never die.

Some smooth roads ahead

 

[Jobe Watson]

Jobe losing his brownlow, players suing the club, a story that will never die.

Some smooth roads ahead

More likely at this point that Jobe keeps his Brownlow than loses it, players suing the club is another overblown issue along with the 5th media-predicted player mass exodus that won't happen, and no one gives a shit about this any more apart from BigFooty clingers-on. Plus, Essendon are showing more heart on-field than a lot of teams this year and aren't the complete and utter rabble many thought we would be.

Get behind the feel good football story of the year. 80k+ at the MCG to watch Essendon (and Collingwood I guess) this week.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I think this saga has just brought the club and its supporters closer together, and we'll be a stronger club because of it. We're on the down slope of a hill that has taken 4 years to climb and there's nothing but smooth roads ahead. Don the Sash.

That's all well and good.

But to put it in perspective, Essendon had been a very ordinary club for over a decade before they decided to cheat.

This saga ripped away what appeared to finally be an on-field challenge at the top level after 10 years of turmoil and mediocrity. They were on the cusp of finally being a contender again.

This saga ripped that away and added 4 years at least to that sustained period of mediocrity. Quite possibly/probably, it could still whack another 5 on top again.


Regardless of what some one-eyed, optimistic angle Essendon supporters take on the current predicament, at the start of this saga if you were told that the club would cop 5-10 years of non-competitve performance you'd have been devastated. Surely.

And that's precisely what has occurred.


Can't be pleased about that surely.


How could it have been worse?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

More likely at this point that Jobe keeps his Brownlow than loses it, players suing the club is another overblown issue along with the 5th media-predicted player mass exodus that won't happen, and no one gives a shit about this any more apart from BigFooty clingers-on. Plus, Essendon are showing more heart on-field than a lot of teams this year and aren't the complete and utter rabble many thought we would be.

Get behind the feel good football story of the year. 80k+ at the MCG to watch Essendon (and Collingwood I guess) this week.

FWIW, I've never 'got' the ANZAC Day footy thing.

 

[SBYM]

FWIW, I've never 'got' the ANZAC Day footy thing.

Shameful!! Young men died on a foreign beach so that you and I have the right to watch the AFL make money off it.

 

[LB#16]

That's all well and good.

But to put it in perspective, Essendon had been a very ordinary club for over a decade before they decided to cheat.

This saga ripped away what appeared to finally be an on-field challenge at the top level after 10 years of turmoil and mediocrity. They were on the cusp of finally being a contender again.

This saga ripped that away and added 4 years at least to that sustained period of mediocrity. Quite possibly/probably, it could still whack another 5 on top again.


Regardless of what some one-eyed, optimistic angle Essendon supporters take on the current predicament, at the start of this saga if you were told that the club would cop 5-10 years of non-competitve performance you'd have been devastated. Surely.

And that's precisely what has occurred.


Can't be pleased about that surely.


How could it have been worse?

Strongly disagree, more so on the cusp of being Richmond mk II. The list wasn't good enough to go anywhere near the flag prior and during the saga. The draft picks at the moment are the boost of youth the club needed to charge for a flag, still a fair bit of drafting to do.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Regardless of what some one-eyed, optimistic angle Essendon supporters take on the current predicament, at the start of this saga if you were told that the club would cop 5-10 years of non-competitve performance you'd have been devastated. Surely.

Yes, if someone told me 4 years ago that we'd be involved in the largest saga ever and have half our playing list suspended, I would've been disappointed...

We've come out of it alright though... pretty good in fact. Players are serving their suspensions and getting on with life. The media have moved on. The club hasn't fallen in a heap. Our makeshift squad is putting in brave on-field performances that have seen parts of the football community get behind us. We're building a nice playing list. And most importantly, people can now get back to actually discussing football and the teams they support!

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

That's all well and good.

But to put it in perspective, Essendon had been a very ordinary club for over a decade before they decided to cheat.

This saga ripped away what appeared to finally be an on-field challenge at the top level after 10 years of turmoil and mediocrity. They were on the cusp of finally being a contender again.

This saga ripped that away and added 4 years at least to that sustained period of mediocrity. Quite possibly/probably, it could still whack another 5 on top again.


Regardless of what some one-eyed, optimistic angle Essendon supporters take on the current predicament, at the start of this saga if you were told that the club would cop 5-10 years of non-competitve performance you'd have been devastated. Surely.

And that's precisely what has occurred.


Can't be pleased about that surely.


How could it have been worse?

To nitpick, I'm pretty sure we were in a grand final and minor premiers just over a decade before we decided to cheat.

But yes, seemingly the only way this could have ended worse would be if the club decided to fold. Not only did we receive player bans like we thought would be the original worst case scenario, but this also dragged out for two more years than first feared.

There's no way this has been good for the club, the 2012 players, the post-2012 players and the fanbase.

Surely no Essendon fan would disagree.

 

[Muggs]

The amount of bad really depends what level you looking at.

For the sport as a whole think a lot of clubs would have taken a look their own process and strengthened processes around background checks, purchasing, OHS, record keeping, etc. Suspect the level of professionalism across clubs would have increased remarkably.

Players certainly would have woken up to their own responsblites.

Sports science has become more professional with professional membership, accreditation, on going PD now becoming a requirement for these jobs, less back yard operations.

The AFL is now enforcing their own rules around medical records.

Lack of testing technology is no longer a hindrance for anti doping efforts.

So while can argue about the level of bad for EFC, sport as a whole had a number of wake ups which in the long run can only be good.

 

[Great8]

That's all well and good.

But to put it in perspective, Essendon had been a very ordinary club for over a decade before they decided to cheat.

This saga ripped away what appeared to finally be an on-field challenge at the top level after 10 years of turmoil and mediocrity. They were on the cusp of finally being a contender again.

This saga ripped that away and added 4 years at least to that sustained period of mediocrity. Quite possibly/probably, it could still whack another 5 on top again.


Regardless of what some one-eyed, optimistic angle Essendon supporters take on the current predicament, at the start of this saga if you were told that the club would cop 5-10 years of non-competitve performance you'd have been devastated. Surely.

And that's precisely what has occurred.


Can't be pleased about that surely.


How could it have been worse?

At the end of the day Premierships are all that matter. We have now gone 15 years without a flag and probably atleast another 5 years before we are able to even be in the mix again so it has definately hurt us big time.
Luckily sponsors and supporters have stayed on board, I still believe that some other clubs would of folded by now if they were in our position so it could of been a lot worse for us

 

[HTPunter]

Limp wristed AFL 'penalties' aside

They got hit hard. Deservedly so, but let's not pretend that being excluded from finals plus record fine is 'limp wristed'.

Recruited Gwilt, Cooney, Giles and Chapman.

I'd imagine the optimism is coming from Parish, Merrett, Francis, Fantasia, Langford, Laverde, Daniher etc plus the top pick they will get this year.

Nothing to do with old spuds.

Essendon went from being a team on the rise and looking to realise that potential when sitting 12-0, to being completely uncompetitive in a Premiership sense for 4 years and back into rebuild mode

Say what? When were they sitting 12-0?

There was a sense in the narrative that 'gee they've come out of all this well haven't they?'


Well the question is, have they?

What could have possibly been worse??

Was the impact of this saga on Essendon as bad as you thought it would be?

There were probably 5 key factors at the start of this saga that I thought would be the big things determining how the impact
1) No player suspensions - massive cross. A huge hit, one the players, coaches and fans of Essendon argued would never happen.

2) Players jumping ship - tick so far. They've lost Carlisle, and Ryder, who are two pretty big hits. But considering guys like Watson, Hurley, Heppell, Hooker, Zaharakis (indirectly), Daniher (indirectly) have all been caught up in this, and it seems they will stay, it's fairly positive. They managed to adequately replace the potential of Carlisle with Francis anyway, and Leuenberger is a downgrade on Ryder but still serviceable hence why I think they get a tick

3) Whether the AFL would double up on club punishment (one for governance, one for drugs) - tick. I agree with this too, the individuals were done for doping, the club was done for governance.

4) Loss of sponsorship - tick.

5) Getting rid of the coaches, trainers and administrators who were there in 2012 and really ****ed the club over - tick. Took them a while but eventually Hird went, and the others all went early.

4/5 for me. You could probably now add lawsuits from the players to the list but if the insurance company largely covers that, it's not the hit it seems.

I mean, it's not ideal, it's worse than what could have been without the saga to start with, but really we forget the early reports of Hexarelin, CJC-1295 (spelling/names on those 2), the experimental nature of the program, what the **** were the players injected with etc...it could have been worse.