Restricted Free Agent Oscar Allen

[stallon]

Graham, Owies and Baker don't combine to replace Barrass in a structural sense.

They dont replacec Barrass, they cover other list holes that we have lacked. Transition running and accountability.

Filling those roles, plus having a mature afl level KPD ready to o to replace Barrass(not as good as Barrass though) is not really a negative when you look at the 23 in totality

 

[Taylor]

Hewett should be replacing Kelly in midfield this year and pushing Kelly out to HFF/mid by the end of the season, where he plays his best footy anyway.

Do you appreciate that fielding a sub 20 game player into the role of guy who has five times as many brownlow votes as the junior has career games played will result in a reduced output and game losses?

Tim Kelly should be a vastly superior player to Hewett in 2025, both players hopefully being fit.

But long term, Hewett should be exposed to as much game time in that role as possible - but it will mean WC loses more midfield contests and that lack of defensive marking power with Barrass and McGovern ending their time will be compounded.

 

[bzparkes]

Do you appreciate that fielding a sub 20 game player into the role of guy who has five times as many brownlow votes as the junior has career games played will result in a reduced output and game losses?

Tim Kelly should be a vastly superior player to Hewett in 2025, both players hopefully being fit.

But long term, Hewett should be exposed to as much game time in that role as possible - but it will mean WC loses more midfield contests and that lack of defensive marking power with Barrass and McGovern ending their time will be compounded.

Have you watched Kelly the past 3 seasons, by any chance?

IMO we lose next to nothing by replacing him with Hewett, who should be prioritised as a starting mid over Kelly anyway.

Kelly can get possessions, but he burns teammates(it's a meme now how many times he's burnt Harley when he's been in a far better position) and has godawful disposal when he's under pressure.

At the very least, Hewett's a bigger body and needs time in that role to develop.

Kelly should be playing an outside role, it's not even really a question, as he's just not very good around the stoppage, apart from a few outlier games across his career.

 

[Shueygod]

The eagles round 24 side featured 4 players > 10 AFL games, 7 players > 50 games, Hough who has played 53 games and a 24yo ruck.

To think that team won’t improve is downright trolling.

For those saying there won’t be the elite top end within 5 years, how many elite players does a premiership team need? How many did hawks have this season and particularly how many prior to this season? I would say Sicily, Newcombe and Day would be considered elite prior with Dambrossio and Meek arguably taking that step this year.

A 2028 team theoretically would have Allen, Waterman, Reid with 4 years to add the extra couple, whether that’s internally or via trade/FA.

A team with an even distribution of good players appears to be more important than top end talent as evidenced by Brisbane winning the league this year and Collingwood the year before.

To be a contender in that time the eagles would need to obtain Warner and to develop/recruit a further 10 good-great role players (from a list of Hewett, Brockman, Long, Chesser, A.Reid, Johnston, Hall, Barnett, Bazzo, Maric, Dewar, Hutchinson, H.Edwards, B.Williams, Shanahan, Gross, Grego, Davis, Champion, Rawlison + future draftees + possible trades/FA).

Sydney’s 2020 list had Heeney, Warner (pick 39, 2 games), Cunningham, Rowbottom (pick 25, 28 games), Hayward, Papley, Florent, Mills (pick 3, 92 games, 30 coaches votes), Blakely (pick 10, 37 games, 5 coaches votes), Rampe, Parker, McLean (SSP, 10 games, 5 goals), Fox (rookie draft, 38 games, 3 coaches votes), Melican (rookie draft, 46 games, 11 coaches votes), Lloyd, Wicks (rookie draft, 7 games), Amartey (rookie draft, 1 game).

Looking at that their entire premiership midfield unit (bar Rowbottom) had not shown anything more than glimpses (as a mid) or weren’t on the list, and many of the established players were nothing more than role players this season.

While I’m not suggesting it is a likely outcome the dismissal of it as a possibility is ignorant to say the least.

 

[Shueygod]

7 throws at the dart board in one draft is better than 7 throws at the dart board across 4 drafts, and WCE are still yet to take two of those throws in next year’s draft, where Richmond likely have two of the top 3 picks thanks to the North trade.

Don’t pretend like WCE fans don’t talk about all of Ginbey, Hewett and Allan all being guns and leading the biggest, baddest bash and crash midfield the league has ever seen on your own board.

**** sake, you’re all still arguing if Chesser might still make it.

What makes you say that first sentence? Is this backed up by anything in particular?

The second paragraph is a bold faced lie.

Are you suggesting Chesser is no chance of becoming an AFL standard player?

 

[Obeanie1]

We have Yeo and Gov playing good footy for at least 1 more year, Yeo more but not as a pure mid id imagine. Gov depends what he wants to do at the end of the year, he hasnt looked even remotely like slowing down though, could easily see Gov winning another AA in 2025.
Yeo actually is contracted for 3 more years.

In 2 years we will have other options for the backline to cover Gov, its too early to tell who thatll be. Most of our talls are in their first couple of seasons.
To cover Yeo we will have Reid, Hewett, Allan, probably Warner, and a couple more first round picks..
People discount the effect not having a balanced mix of players on the list has affected the results of recent times. Just adding Baker and Graham to the midfield/defence will make a big difference, bigger than their own ability would suggest.

Our best one, Hewett has had injury issues, I have very little doubt he will be an A-grade prospect very quickly.
Most of the kids are in their first 4 seasons, its premature to say they havent looked convincing.

We are likely the frontrunners for a guy like Warner right now, if not him then we will get someone else. We are not North or gold coast.

Incredibly pessimistic look at the list

When hasnt Briz been pessimistic looking at our list?

IMO 12 months from now we will have a pretty decent idea of our list and needs for the next tilt at finals.. Age and quality wise. What needs filling with trades.

Warner - trade 2025
Another quality mid - draft
Mature #1 Ruck - ruck merry go round
KP defender - trade / free agency (keep developing what we have)

Huge hand of picks in 2025 and a big fish looking to return to Perth.

I stopped conversing with Briz as he refused to factor in future trades of players and instead rambled on and on that using the draft will take forever. Whilst mentioning "you dont have the academy access orhers do"

In 12 months we should also know what Harley is doing. Either way he goes is a pivotal list moment on where we sit in 2026 and 2027.

 

[Taylor]

Have you watched Kelly the past 3 seasons, by any chance?

IMO we lose next to nothing by replacing him with Hewett, who should be prioritised as a starting mid over Kelly anyway.

Kelly can get possessions, but he burns teammates(it's a meme now how many times he's burnt Harley when he's been in a far better position) and has godawful disposal when he's under pressure.

At the very least, Hewett's a bigger body and needs time in that role to develop.

Kelly should be playing an outside role, it's not even really a question, as he's just not very good around the stoppage, apart from a few outlier games across his career.

When I was reviewing Tim Kelly's footage prior to his trade West he was running at about 50% by foot and that included counting a kick forward that wasn't intercepted (so it didn't count as a clanger) but didn't go to his open team mate. He's always been like that.

Putting him more on the outside isn't going to improve that. I agree that his best position is forward because he has clean hands and can snap at goal effectively.

But I do think he will be more useful in 2025 than Hewett will be, but it will be more beneficial for the Eagles in 2026/2027 if Hewett plays over Kelly in that role.

 

[eastfreo75]

Can you point to the part of my post where I said anything about home attendances?

I said we had a higher average and a higher total attendance, which is exactly what my screenshot shows.

Are you stupid, or dishonest?

When you play away for WA club majority of the crowd are not West Coast or Fremantle fans.

At home majority of the supporters are Eagles or Dockers.

Also, then you add the fact that Dockers has 40% less supporters than the Eagles.

Stop making stupid arguments and making a fool of yourself.

 

[bzparkes]

When you play away for WA club majority of the crowd are not West Coast or Fremantle fans.

At home majority of the supporters are Eagles or Dockers.

Also, then you add the fact that Dockers has 40% less supporters than the Eagles.

Stop making stupid arguments and making a fool of yourself.

Speaking of people making fools of themselves, explain WCE's higher average home attendance during a spoon year, when Freo were expected to make finals.

Also, as you apparently are clueless, Freo also had one more home game this year than WCE

 

[THE_GUN]

Have you watched Kelly the past 3 seasons, by any chance?

IMO we lose next to nothing by replacing him with Hewett, who should be prioritised as a starting mid over Kelly anyway.

Kelly can get possessions, but he burns teammates(it's a meme now how many times he's burnt Harley when he's been in a far better position) and has godawful disposal when he's under pressure.

At the very least, Hewett's a bigger body and needs time in that role to develop.

Kelly should be playing an outside role, it's not even really a question, as he's just not very good around the stoppage, apart from a few outlier games across his career.

He is 2cm taller than Kelly but probably 5kgs lighter

Also only played 14 games coming of a long term injury
Thinking you are expecting way way too much from the kid

 

[bzparkes]

He is 2cm taller than Kelly but probably 5kgs lighter

Also only played 14 games coming of a long term injury
Thinking you are expecting way way too much from the kid

I'm expecting him to be given fair time in the midfield, at the expense of a bloke who burns his teammates and can't hit a target to save his life.

Kelly's been a liability recently.

 

[briztoon]

What makes you say that first sentence? Is this backed up by anything in particular?

That was a direct reply to Obeanie1 post.

He was having a crack at Richmond’s draft and their behaviour, while I view his comments about WC in a very similar light.

The second paragraph is a bold faced lie.

Maybe I stretched it a little too far, but there’s been a fair bit of that type of talk in your draft thread since last Thursday.

Are you suggesting Chesser is no chance of becoming an AFL standard player?

Not at all. That’s been the discussion on your board, by your posters the last two days.

We have Yeo and Gov playing good footy for at least 1 more year, Yeo more but not as a pure mid id imagine. Gov depends what he wants to do at the end of the year, he hasnt looked even remotely like slowing down though, could easily see Gov winning another AA in 2025.
Yeo actually is contracted for 3 more years.

In 2 years we will have other options for the backline to cover Gov, its too early to tell who thatll be. Most of our talls are in their first couple of seasons.
To cover Yeo we will have Reid, Hewett, Allan, probably Warner, and a couple more first round picks..
People discount the effect not having a balanced mix of players on the list has affected the results of recent times. Just adding Baker and Graham to the midfield/defence will make a big difference, bigger than their own ability would suggest.

Our best one, Hewett has had injury issues, I have very little doubt he will be an A-grade prospect very quickly.
Most of the kids are in their first 4 seasons, its premature to say they havent looked convincing.

We are likely the frontrunners for a guy like Warner right now, if not him then we will get someone else. We are not North or gold coast.

Incredibly pessimistic look at the list

A lot of this is what gets me on your board.

Hewett is coming back from a serious injury, has yet to play an AFL game since, hasn’t shown his foot can handle the rigours of AFL, yet he’s an A grade prospect.

Ginbey clearly showed he was out of his depth playing midfield, yet there are posters on your board who still project him as a future gun mid.

Similarly Allan, who hasn’t even finished his first preseason, but at U18 level, looked more like Ginbey than a genuine mid.

Chesser has had a horrible time with injury and his recovery. And has yet to nail down a role or position.

And I believe Baker and Graham are very overrated. Both are genuine triers, have got the most out of themselves through hard work, but I believe there’s a fair chance they get shown up as very average players in a team that needs more A grade senior talent, not more hard workers.


You’re three drafts in to a proper rebuild, and so far really only have Harley to show for it. And maybe Ginbey if he develops at half back. Every other kid from those drafts still have question marks over them.

 

[briztoon]

When hasnt Briz been pessimistic looking at our list?

IMO 12 months from now we will have a pretty decent idea of our list and needs for the next tilt at finals.. Age and quality wise. What needs filling with trades.

Warner - trade 2025
Another quality mid - draft
Mature #1 Ruck - ruck merry go round
KP defender - trade / free agency (keep developing what we have)

Huge hand of picks in 2025 and a big fish looking to return to Perth.

I stopped conversing with Briz as he refused to factor in future trades of players and instead rambled on and on that using the draft will take forever. Whilst mentioning "you dont have the academy access orhers do"

In 12 months we should also know what Harley is doing. Either way he goes is a pivotal list moment on where we sit in 2026 and 2027.

If I make up future trades of Allen and JUH moving to Brisbane, we’re probably winning every flag between 2026 and 2030.

One would hope you should have a pretty clear idea of your list needs right now.

I’d say you need Chad plus two more top of the draft mids. Two KPD, a mature ruck, an elite kick HBF with pace, a fleet of small forwards, and two wingers.

But mostly you need to nail a couple of drafts and then time for these kids to develop.

I rarely mentioned academy access in our discussions about WC. I did mention them when you went on predicting Brisbane’s demise and we’d missed our window.

Chad in, Harley out, isn’t speeding up your rebuild. p.s. I don’t want Harley to leave.

 

[stallon]

A lot of this is what gets me on your board.

Not everyone holds these opinions, and they dont represent the "general consensus" either.

Hewett is coming back from a serious injury, has yet to play an AFL game since, hasn’t shown his foot can handle the rigours of AFL, yet he’s an A grade prospect.

I personally am very bullish on Hewett, I have him justifying the pick 2 split on his own, Ginbey is just a bonus.
Most seem to think at best hes a half forward for us in 2025 and unknown beyond that.

Ginbey clearly showed he was out of his depth playing midfield, yet there are posters on your board who still project him as a future gun mid.

Wrong, we project him as a gun half back and potential future defensive mid. I dont think ive seen anybody project Ginbey to be a gun mid in months now

Similarly Allan, who hasn’t even finished his first preseason, but at U18 level, looked more like Ginbey than a genuine mid.

He looked more like Yeo than Ginbey. Hes a different athlete to Ginbey, and seems to be more of a natural mid

Chesser has had a horrible time with injury and his recovery. And has yet to nail down a role or position.

People are saying this is his last chance, small defender or half back the likely roles he might find a home in.
I dunno why you mentioned Chesser.

And I believe Baker and Graham are very overrated. Both are genuine triers, have got the most out of themselves through hard work, but I believe there’s a fair chance they get shown up as very average players in a team that needs more A grade senior talent, not more hard workers.

They only have to be triers, Graham just needs to run and tackle, and Baker can sit in the backline doing what he did during Richmonds good years.
They havent been brought on to be stars lmao.
Graham is a solid role player, baker is a very good one

You’re three drafts in to a proper rebuild, and so far really only have Harley to show for it. And maybe Ginbey if he develops at half back. Every other kid from those drafts still have question marks over them.

Every kid has question marks in their first 3 seasons. We have more than Harley, you just dont agree with the players we are big on.
Youre within your rights to disagree with us, but dont go and lie about us on other boards

 

[stallon]

If I make up future trades of Allen and JUH moving to Brisbane, we’re probably winning every flag between 2026 and 2030.

The Warner trade vs the Allen or JUH ones youre making up are completely different.
Warner = a good chance, Allen and JUH are almost not even worth talking about theyre that unlikely.

One would hope you should have a pretty clear idea of your list needs right now.

I’d say you need Chad plus two more top of the draft mids. Two KPD, a mature ruck, an elite kick HBF with pace, a fleet of small forwards, and two wingers

Are you familiar with the list compositions of most premiership winning sides?
They generally dont comprise of 22 elite players bud.

I rarely mentioned academy access in our discussions about WC. I did mention them when you went on predicting Brisbane’s demise and we’d missed our window.

Chad in, Harley out, isn’t speeding up your rebuild. p.s. I don’t want Harley to leave.

 

[briztoon]

Not everyone holds these opinions, and they dont represent the "general consensus" either.

I wasn’t implying this was a general consensus. I meant when a poster talks up one of your kids who hasn’t yet shown anything at AFL level, or you’re talking about a player coming back from injury, who still has questions about if he’s still the same player.

It’s not just Hewett either. Archer Reid has been talked up recently. Then there’s your recent MSD draftees being spoken up as well.

I personally am very bullish on Hewett, I have him justifying the pick 2 split on his own, Ginbey is just a bonus.
Most seem to think at best hes a half forward for us in 2025 and unknown beyond that.

Without the injury, he was a kid I liked, now he’s a wait and see prospect.

Wrong, we project him as a gun half back and potential future defensive mid. I dont think ive seen anybody project Ginbey to be a gun mid in months now.

Without an elite kick on him, I don’t see him being a gun.

He looked more like Yeo than Ginbey. Hes a different athlete to Ginbey, and seems to be more of a natural mid

I really question the bolded.

People are saying this is his last chance, small defender or half back the likely roles he might find a home in.
I dunno why you mentioned Chesser.

Because he’s a potential first round draftee, that you may have missed on (due to no one’s fault because of injury), that impacts the timeline of your rebuild.

They only have to be triers, Graham just needs to run and tackle, and Baker can sit in the backline doing what he did during Richmonds good years.
They havent been brought on to be stars lmao.
Graham is a solid role player, baker is a very good one.

Grahams limitation is he is slow. He will try and defend, but often times his direct opponent simply beats him for pace.

Because of this, he struggles when the opposition wins the ball and spreads.

Baker won’t have the same caliber of player around him, as he had during Richmond’s good years. This will have a flow on effect to his performances.

Every kid has question marks in their first 3 seasons. We have more than Harley, you just dont agree with the players we are big on.
Youre within your rights to disagree with us,

but dont go and lie about us on other boards

Ok it was an over exaggeration drawn from one comment from your board last Thursday.

 

[briztoon]

The Warner trade vs the Allen or JUH ones youre making up are completely different.
Warner = a good chance, Allen and JUH are almost not even worth talking about theyre that unlikely.

Are you familiar with the list compositions of most premiership winning sides?
They generally dont comprise of 22 elite players bud.

Except the Allen discussion has genuine legs on our board, and has been a discussion point since mid season. It wasn’t made up by me, and potentially comes from a Lions fan podcast, where both hosts used to run the club’s official podcast.

As for JUH, Twomey threw his name in to the Brisbane discussion on his podcast post draft.

I’m not pulling two random names here.

As unlikely as either player to Brisbane might be, I didn’t make either link up.

 

[Shueygod]

I’d say you need Chad plus two more top of the draft mids. Two KPD, a mature ruck, an elite kick HBF with pace, a fleet of small forwards, and two wingers.

How many elite mids did Brisbane have this season? Are you assuming none of these needs can come from the 20 plus 21 or under players on the list?

 

[WilloTree]

Well you can't be talking about West Coast, considering we had a higher average and higher total attendance than Fremantle this year.

West Coast don't wear yellow either.

View attachment 2188918

I think you've missed the joke.

 

[WilloTree]

Jeepers. Eagles fans have really turned on Tim Kelly. I actually thought he was pretty good in parts last season.

 

[Taylor]

Speaking of people making fools of themselves, explain WCE's higher average home attendance during a spoon year, when Freo were expected to make finals.

Also, as you apparently are clueless, Freo also had one more home game this year than WCE

Does Fremantle's home game in Adelaide count as a home game for those stats?

 

[bzparkes]

Does Fremantle's home game in Adelaide count as a home game for those stats?

Sure.

It had 43,158 people attend, so didn't make any difference to the overall home attendance.

There were less people at Freo's opening game of the season vs the Brisbane Lions, at Optus, for example.

The fact is, if someone wants to have a pissing contest over crowds, do 5 minutes of research first. Better to keep their mouth shut otherwise.

 

[stallon]

Jeepers. Eagles fans have really turned on Tim Kelly. I actually thought he was pretty good in parts last season.

We have higher expectations of him. He had a relatively poor year in 2024, and his BnF placing of 10th was about right. He should be much higher.
Part of it also is he is selfish, blazes away while ignoring better options via handball. Was many instances for example where Kelly is running towards 50, then instead of handballing it off to Reid who is running alongside him with no pressure, he kicks it long to nothing instead

 

[bzparkes]

Jeepers. Eagles fans have really turned on Tim Kelly. I actually thought he was pretty good in parts last season.

As Stallon said, watching him burn a completely open Reid multiple times to try and get a kick off under pressure pissed a lot of people off.

Played very selfishly this year.

Will acknowledge his knee complaint would've affected his disposal however.

 

[WilloTree]

We have higher expectations of him. He had a relatively poor year in 2024, and his BnF placing of 10th was about right. He should be much higher.
Part of it also is he is selfish, blazes away while ignoring better options via handball. Was many instances for example where Kelly is running towards 50, then instead of handballing it off to Reid who is running alongside him with no pressure, he kicks it long to nothing instead

Yeah fair enough. I like him as a player and he's very important to West Coast. There was a run of winnable games v Saints, North and Essendon he missed. Eagles only lost to North by 9pts and Saints by 6. I reckon I he plays them the results could have gone the other way.