grizzlym
Premium Platinum
Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Worse still, none of them can be rotated through the midfield either.
Worse still, none of them can be rotated through the midfield either.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Our midfield is struggling ...
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Lurkalot
Club Legend
Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Past increases in his workload has seen numerous soft tissue injuries in his short career. So he's only used as impact thru short MF bursts. Does tend to blow up pretty quickly too.
Too right Grizz....our depth in the MF is a concern when it's compared to the other contenders.
Past increases in his workload has seen numerous soft tissue injuries in his short career. So he's only used as impact thru short MF bursts. Does tend to blow up pretty quickly too.
Too right Grizz....our depth in the MF is a concern when it's compared to the other contenders.
halfback dasher
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Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Rioli ...Small sharp bursts
Bruest .....He already is being pushed into the midfield ..
Burgs .....Is a flanker first and can play Mid .
Whitex ....is ready too become an extractor in his own right .
Buddy ....can play Anywhere
Poppy ....Give him a go Clarko ...
Disagree ...
Rioli ...Small sharp bursts
Bruest .....He already is being pushed into the midfield ..
Burgs .....Is a flanker first and can play Mid .
Whitex ....is ready too become an extractor in his own right .
Buddy ....can play Anywhere
Poppy ....Give him a go Clarko ...
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Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Again ...Disagree , but we do need to become more open minded as a club...for too long we have trusted in the same players week in week out !!
Again ...Disagree , but we do need to become more open minded as a club...for too long we have trusted in the same players week in week out !!
This same midfield thumped sydneys same midfield just 7 matches ago. Can we all please settle down.
No! That was seven matches ago.
Hi, hope you don't mind if I join in.
This subject caught my eye, as this weeks game will be decided in the midfield IMO.
Saints got well beaten by the Demons in contested possessions/clearances but still managed to grind out a win probably due to their lack of KPPs in the end.
Truth is this week, either defence will probably struggle if the opposing team gets on top in the middle and puts it under any real pressure.
Both forwards lines have the potential to capitilise if given the opportunity.
It will be about which midfield can redeem themselves this week?
This subject caught my eye, as this weeks game will be decided in the midfield IMO.
Saints got well beaten by the Demons in contested possessions/clearances but still managed to grind out a win probably due to their lack of KPPs in the end.
Truth is this week, either defence will probably struggle if the opposing team gets on top in the middle and puts it under any real pressure.
Both forwards lines have the potential to capitilise if given the opportunity.
It will be about which midfield can redeem themselves this week?
Lurkalot
Club Legend
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Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Would we still have Joey had we given him a go over others Ll ...??Yeah that would be the depth issue
Henry Jr
Norm Smith Medallist
Re: Our midfield is embarrassing ...
Agreed
Would we still have Joey had we given him a go over others Ll ...??
Agreed
Lurkalot
Club Legend
Ellis, Dowler, Morton.
Hindsight being a wonderful thing of course.
Hindsight being a wonderful thing of course.
Looking at the clearance stats for the first 5 rounds we are now in last place. Breaking it down to our top 3 players based on average per game we have:
Mitchell 5.8
Sewell 4.6
Roughead 3.5
Yep, Rough is in our top 3 with his second efforts from the ruck. It's interesting to look at how we stack up against the contenders and breaking it down to the top 3 players makes sense as these days team have 2 prime ball winners (like Collingwood and Carlton) or one with good back up:
Geelong
------------
Selwood 7.0
Kelly 6.7
Corey 4.6
Collingwood
-----------------
Swan 7.2
Pendlebury 6.2
Sidebottom 4.0
WCE
-------
Priddis 9.0
Selwood 5.2
Shuey 4.8
Carlton
----------
Judd 7.0
Murphy 7.0
Carrazzo 6.3
Sydney
----------
Kennedy 7.2
Bolton 4.0
Parker 4.0
North Melbourne
----------------------
Swallow 8.4
Ziebell 6.7
Wells 3.8
I threw North in there because Swallow and Ziebell are right up there these days.
Mitchell 5.8
Sewell 4.6
Roughead 3.5
Yep, Rough is in our top 3 with his second efforts from the ruck. It's interesting to look at how we stack up against the contenders and breaking it down to the top 3 players makes sense as these days team have 2 prime ball winners (like Collingwood and Carlton) or one with good back up:
Geelong
------------
Selwood 7.0
Kelly 6.7
Corey 4.6
Collingwood
-----------------
Swan 7.2
Pendlebury 6.2
Sidebottom 4.0
WCE
-------
Priddis 9.0
Selwood 5.2
Shuey 4.8
Carlton
----------
Judd 7.0
Murphy 7.0
Carrazzo 6.3
Sydney
----------
Kennedy 7.2
Bolton 4.0
Parker 4.0
North Melbourne
----------------------
Swallow 8.4
Ziebell 6.7
Wells 3.8
I threw North in there because Swallow and Ziebell are right up there these days.
Henry Jr
Norm Smith Medallist
Did people notice today after Sydney's goals, Rough would move into the middle and take the tap?
Wonder how he would go starting as a mid whilst Broc/Hale ruck, then moving back to the forward line.
Brant
Brownlow Medallist
Actually thought about that during the week Hank...
Surely we wouldn't, but then, playing Roughy as an inside mid wouldn't even make the Top 3 Crazy Player Placements a week at HFC these days!
On a serious note, a competitor is a competitor, & if he wants it more than others & has the ability to win the ball (which he seems to on both counts) then it's probably worth a try.
Surely we wouldn't, but then, playing Roughy as an inside mid wouldn't even make the Top 3 Crazy Player Placements a week at HFC these days!
On a serious note, a competitor is a competitor, & if he wants it more than others & has the ability to win the ball (which he seems to on both counts) then it's probably worth a try.
Kennedy 7.2
the above kills me, and he killed us again today
Refer to the Josh Kennedy thread and have a read of what i said about him...ive been shot down as being a fool in 2009 when i was in arms at trading him, and still to this day hawk fans argue that it was a "mutually beneficial" trade....the big difference with Kennedy and the thorps dowlers ellis mortons mustons was that Kennedy was at our club, he made massive progress in 2009 where he showed he was going to be a gun (refer his game v cats where he made that match costing error, and last few games of season) and we simply as a club made a very bad decision trading him.
the above kills me, and he killed us again today
Refer to the Josh Kennedy thread and have a read of what i said about him...ive been shot down as being a fool in 2009 when i was in arms at trading him, and still to this day hawk fans argue that it was a "mutually beneficial" trade....the big difference with Kennedy and the thorps dowlers ellis mortons mustons was that Kennedy was at our club, he made massive progress in 2009 where he showed he was going to be a gun (refer his game v cats where he made that match costing error, and last few games of season) and we simply as a club made a very bad decision trading him.
Think we need to move on from Kennedy. He has not been a Hawthorn player for several years now and we do not know if he would have even developed into the same player at Hawthorn. We stuffed up but it's not something that can be reversed.
On Cyril, I think round 3 2010 was one of the best games i've seen him play, 24 possies 4 goals. Not sure if that was midfield but I think it was mostly. Pretty depressed with the way his footy has been going in recent times (damn injuries
)
grizzlym
Premium Platinum
Yes. Agreed re Kennedy. Some people warned it would happen at the time, others have in hindsight, but trading him was a bad move. Rationalise it anyway you like, it stinks. But that's past. He doesn't play for us now, hasn't for a few years. The question is: who do we look to to get some sort of comparable drive? are there any options? Are we just in a down patch, or is there more serious concerns?
Brant
Brownlow Medallist
As good/bad as it may have been, it was years ago & is in no way relevant now. Just let it go. We are all hurt by today, but continually bringing up whether we should or shouldn't have traded him (let him go at his request) has got to stop.
If he comes banging on our door the maybe we can make amends. Until then...
Bailey is the whole key to the midfield. Can someone put together our win / loss ratio when this guy is playing?
I think we will bounce back. We have had a very tough first 4-5 rounds...This is the wake up call we needed. We have some easy opponents coming up if we truly are a contender.
I'll give them 1 last chance !!!!
There is no question our midfield is ageing though and looking slower each year. Who can we move in there? Birchall was a midfielder originally?
I think we will bounce back. We have had a very tough first 4-5 rounds...This is the wake up call we needed. We have some easy opponents coming up if we truly are a contender.
I'll give them 1 last chance !!!!
There is no question our midfield is ageing though and looking slower each year. Who can we move in there? Birchall was a midfielder originally?
go hawks!!!
Norm Smith Medallist
Is this a rhetorical question? I know what you're getting at. We are one paced, slow and cannot run out a game. Our structures are not right, and our rotations seem out of whack perhaps due to a lack of quality in the rotations. This may be suppoirted by stats?
To make it worse, our ruck division is poor, as a result of Bailey going down (some of us identified this risk at the start of the year), worsened by the trade of Renouf, and the fact that our backup ruckmen are poor and not developing to plan.
The above is a serious concern, Broc was mauled today, Hale is an elephant who can't jump. Bailey is a long long way away. Sewell is a shadow of the player he was, and Shiels is a passenger at the moment.
As a team our bottom 6 is killing us week in week out. Time for change, and now.
Osbourne - out
Sewell - Out
Play Rioli inside mid next week or forward pocket within 30 metres of goal with bud and rough. Thats just common sense
Sheils would seem the obvious one but not sure if he is ready yet and he still quite young. Still, would like him to get more involved. Maybe it's just me but he seems to get his 20 odd possessions but they often seem "quiet" if that makes sense.
grizzlym
Premium Platinum
Either way, I guess. People can answer it if they feel strongly either way, or just accept it as a statement. But, for the record, I believe you have articulated exactly the malaise at play. Whether it's indicative of a trough after a tough run, or is something more fundamental, time will tell.
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Just recovering enough to contribute to a debate now
In response to a number of issues raised:
Kennedy - I admit I didn't see his brilliance back then. I would have loved to keep him but mostly for the name - shows how little I know
Lack of balance - it has seemed obvious for a while, but I never knew who to leave out or who would come in. We obviously only can operate at current level if all are in form - which is obviously not true.
Are we without any hope?
What has gone wrong since last year - I raised in a previous thread that I thought our youngsters weren't delivering as much as last year. I want to re-iterate that, but not only on their performance, but the impact it has elsewhere.
Last year, we had a bunch of kids come through together who added a massive buzz to the club. Compare to this year and the difference is huge. They are learning a more rounded game (Suckling and Savage have improved their defensive games massively), but we have lost some of the zing.
Our preparation has been less than ideal, with Shiels coming in late, Poppy and Hodgey playing their first games, Birchall being out for a couple. Add this all together and it means we are not playing anywhere near potential.
I feel we have a hope, but I just want the coaches to run with the best players, and not warp the game plan to fit our current cattle. People talk about a lack of pace and no flankers being able to rotate through. We have Savage, Smith (soon hopefully), Poppy and Hill (if he is up to it). That is some serious toe! We have Whitecross, Cyril, Burgers and Hodge - flankers who should rotate through.
I would like to see us move to a balanced midfield with:
Mitchell,Lewis and Shiels to share the premium inside mid role;
Burgers/Hodge sharing flanker and mid roles (inside and outside)
Whitecross/Savage/Smith/Poppy as our outside mids burning it up, with Cyril and maybe Bruest thrown in to spice things up.
Coaches - please note Railed's post - good job
We should play with two ruckmen, being Roughy and whoever is considered the best ruckman out of Hale and Broc (or Bailey later on).
I would have Buddy in the square and Roughy at CHF as the standard forward set-up - with Cyril and Bruest as our crumbers/defensive pressure. When Roughy goes into ruck, Buddy should move to CHF and the other ruck should be in the square causing contests.
In defence, let's just hope Gibbo comes good(four leaf clover smily)
Our midfield is struggling, but our draw has really hurt us - this is not an excuse - it is reality. This means we shouldn't give up all hope, but god we need to improve a lot
In response to a number of issues raised:
Kennedy
- I admit I didn't see his brilliance back then. I would have loved to keep him but mostly for the name - shows how little I knowLack of balance - it has seemed obvious for a while, but I never knew who to leave out or who would come in. We obviously only can operate at current level if all are in form - which is obviously not true.
Are we without any hope?
What has gone wrong since last year - I raised in a previous thread that I thought our youngsters weren't delivering as much as last year. I want to re-iterate that, but not only on their performance, but the impact it has elsewhere.
Last year, we had a bunch of kids come through together who added a massive buzz to the club. Compare to this year and the difference is huge. They are learning a more rounded game (Suckling and Savage have improved their defensive games massively), but we have lost some of the zing.
Our preparation has been less than ideal, with Shiels coming in late, Poppy and Hodgey playing their first games, Birchall being out for a couple. Add this all together and it means we are not playing anywhere near potential.
I feel we have a hope, but I just want the coaches to run with the best players, and not warp the game plan to fit our current cattle. People talk about a lack of pace and no flankers being able to rotate through. We have Savage, Smith (soon hopefully), Poppy and Hill (if he is up to it). That is some serious toe! We have Whitecross, Cyril, Burgers and Hodge - flankers who should rotate through.
I would like to see us move to a balanced midfield with:
Mitchell,Lewis and Shiels to share the premium inside mid role;
Burgers/Hodge sharing flanker and mid roles (inside and outside)
Whitecross/Savage/Smith/Poppy as our outside mids burning it up, with Cyril and maybe Bruest thrown in to spice things up.
Coaches - please note Railed's post - good job
We should play with two ruckmen, being Roughy and whoever is considered the best ruckman out of Hale and Broc (or Bailey later on).
I would have Buddy in the square and Roughy at CHF as the standard forward set-up - with Cyril and Bruest as our crumbers/defensive pressure. When Roughy goes into ruck, Buddy should move to CHF and the other ruck should be in the square causing contests.
In defence, let's just hope Gibbo comes good(four leaf clover smily)
Our midfield is struggling, but our draw has really hurt us - this is not an excuse - it is reality. This means we shouldn't give up all hope, but god we need to improve a lot
Though I agree that we have struggled in the Midfield in some games, I wouldn't agree with some of the comments I have read here.
Someone said that Hodgey hasn't played a decent game since 08? what the hell are they smoking. Mate how about the whole 2010 season where he became AA centre and captain? He just needs a bit more time to get into it again and he will tear it up again. He is WAY too good and smart to be quiet for that long. He is already one of our great champions. Stop disgarding him so quickly.
Did anyone see the Spoil, gather and awesome 60 metre kick to a running Cyril in the second? AMAZING right? give him a break man!
I swear only a few weeks ago... 3 to be exact... we were talking up our depth and saying how... "omg... how do we fit this player in and that player in?". Seriously though, we have a great squad, we just need a little bit of luck and to put our heads down and work.
I too am so disappointed about yesterday, but if we have any pride in ourselves, we will come out of this week with a WIN. I don't really care home much... 2 points would be GREAT! But a win to get our confidence pumping again... that is all we need.
Someone said that Hodgey hasn't played a decent game since 08? what the hell are they smoking. Mate how about the whole 2010 season where he became AA centre and captain? He just needs a bit more time to get into it again and he will tear it up again. He is WAY too good and smart to be quiet for that long. He is already one of our great champions. Stop disgarding him so quickly.
Did anyone see the Spoil, gather and awesome 60 metre kick to a running Cyril in the second? AMAZING right? give him a break man!
I swear only a few weeks ago... 3 to be exact... we were talking up our depth and saying how... "omg... how do we fit this player in and that player in?". Seriously though, we have a great squad, we just need a little bit of luck and to put our heads down and work.
I too am so disappointed about yesterday, but if we have any pride in ourselves, we will come out of this week with a WIN. I don't really care home much... 2 points would be GREAT! But a win to get our confidence pumping again... that is all we need.
