Our plethora of forwards

[raff23]

I have been to most of the games where dowler was playing and i have seen dowler move. Its not that he is not agile. He is bloody quick for his height. Its that he lacks confidence and still lacks the nouse of playing in the forward line. He is still young and with great teachers at the club that will change soon enough. I think Dowler will surprise a few this year if not next

Dont know where he got not agile enough from, every game ive watched of dowler he is like a gazelle running across the ground, Confidence is the key to dowler your spot on. With his endurance and speed for his height he has the potential to be a force for us, he just has to believe he can produce the goods consistently.

 

[raff23]

there is no way dowler will be a regular in the forward line with bud and rough.... dont get me wrong, he has potential and can probably seriously play, but it is just a case of wrong club and bad timing.... the beauty of willo was he could play tall and small, chase tackle and put pressure on the oppostion as well as kick goals........ dowler wont be able to do this and therefore it wont suit our game plan.... we will be too top heavy... remember 2007, early 2008 when we had boyle as the 3rd tall? imo it just didnt quite work for us and aloud good defences out of our 50 too easily...

the burger can play this 3rd tall/small type player in the mould of willo if need be.... even hodge can rest up forward and kick goals.... both much better options than dwoler imo...

RIOLI FRANKLO BURGER/HODGE
HOOPER ROUGH BROWN/OSSIE

Imo it actually worked pretty well, you have to remember before boyle got into injury troubles he kicked 40 goals in 07 or thereabouts, pretty good return for a 3rd tall. You say that good defences got the ball out easily, Willo wasnt exactly great at defensive pressure and he was out most of the yr so what did we lose that yr in that department? same input on the scoreboard. To me boyle is nearly as big a loss as williams because had he stil been playing and injury free he would have slotted into willo's spot this yr allowing dowler to develop further.

 

[Fat Tony]

Imo it actually worked pretty well, you have to remember before boyle got into injury troubles he kicked 40 goals in 07 or thereabouts, pretty good return for a 3rd tall. You say that good defences got the ball out easily, Willo wasnt exactly great at defensive pressure and he was out most of the yr so what did we lose that yr in that department? same input on the scoreboard. To me boyle is nearly as big a loss as williams because had he stil been playing and injury free he would have slotted into willo's spot this yr allowing dowler to develop further.

Both Willo and Boyle are big losses and that is not even considering the prospect of losing Buddy or Roughy for long periods due to injury. If they go we only have Dowler left as back-up

 

[Rioli magic]

Not sure where Dowler fits in but would be happy to see him get a game. I wouldn't write him off just yet how many games has he played? Willo's defensive game was hardly a strong point, not sure we'd lose that much with Dowler TBH, and we'll certainly gain in that area with Hooper. It's a good problem to have the options we do for our forwardline.

 

[lickmerocks]

I like Dowler but i can't see him getting a gig....

B: Guerra Gilham Brown
HB: Ladson Schoenmakers Gibson
C: Burgoyne Mitchell Birchall
HF: Lewis Franklin Rioli
F: Osborne Roughead Bateman
Foll: Taylor Hodge Sewell
Int: Renouf Ellis Young Hooper

I think this is how we will line up with maybe a few position rotations such as Lewis, Bateman, Birchall. But our best 22 anyhow with potentialy 9 players that have and can go forward.

Drop Hooper?? Don't think so. Dowler will be the Boyle waiting in the wings as injuries strike.

Why anyone would think Lewis is a forward is beyond me.

Misses goals from 10 metres out and fades all his kicks.

Keep Lewis the hell away from the forward line as we need finishers.

 

[real hawk]

Spot on LICKMEROCKS Lewis should be kept out of the forward line, he is a woeful shot on goal, plus he is to valuable up in the midfield, if we have to have midfielders going into the forward line give me Hodge or Burgoyne in thier anytime.

 

[Roughies Boys]

My understanding is that we get to nominate two rookies - possibly Moss and Milne.

With Bailey going on the LTI List, I would expect Skipper to maybe come in or Peterson if they want to go with someone else.

Otherwise, I thought all rookies could play in the second half of the season. Given that, most would get a run at some stage if form warranted wouldn't they?

We have a spot on the senior list now so we could put moss on senior list!

 

[hawks0808]

We have a spot on the senior list now so we could put moss on senior list!

No rush to elevate a rookie, clarko & the coaching staff will see who deserves an elevation based on preseason form.

 

[WeneedyoungJarmans]

key forward options:

Franklin, Roughead, Dowler, Lisle and Shoenmakers

Backups - Renouf, Skipper

When you consider that a couple of yrs ago we had Franklin, Roughead and the next best was Boyle who I think is equally matched by Dowler's capabilities and Thorp and Dowler at the time were never on the park, we are in no worse position than before.

Shoenmakers played as a lead up half forward as a junior and could easily become a swingman if required.

If Dowler and Shoenmakers can learn to play both CHF and CHB in a yr or two, Hawthorn will have a complete spine front to back.

 

[Trent Berger]

This idea will completely send some of you into orbit but given Crash Dowler's late season form up forward against Essenscum why not leave him in the forward line with Buddy up there. Now Trent has retired we need Roughy down back to win a flag. Gilham and Shoey are not going to be the answer in a GF. Gibson is a pitch hitter in a KP. Dont forget we used Robbie C down back a few times last year and this is no longer an option. We tried to develop Thorpe but that was a waste of time.

In addition we have Jordan Lisle who showed a bit in the BH games I saw last year. Options for forward KP are okay, its how we structure our defence that will be critical. This was reflected in our mature age recruits.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

This idea will completely send some of you into orbit but given Crash Dowler's late season form up forward against Essenscum why not leave him in the forward line with Buddy up there. Now Trent has retired we need Roughy down back to win a flag. Gilham and Shoey are not going to be the answer in a GF. Gibson is a pitch hitter in a KP. Dont forget we used Robbie C down back a few times last year and this is no longer an option. We tried to develop Thorpe but that was a waste of time.

In addition we have Jordan Lisle who showed a bit in the BH games I saw last year. Options for forward KP are okay, its how we structure our defence that will be critical. This was reflected in our mature age recruits.

Must say, I don;t have a problem using Rough down back when required. It's not a strategy that is liked on this board though.

I'm just happy that we are now building enough depth that we can try these things.

 

[WeneedyoungJarmans]

Must say, I don;t have a problem using Rough down back when required. It's not a strategy that is liked on this board though.

I'm just happy that we are now building enough depth that we can try these things.

Good in theory but because Franklin and Roughead are so strong and elite, they both can command 2 defenders to be stopped. A team can negate 1 forward if they command a 2nd man up, but not 2.

This is the reason why our forward line is unstoppable as you cant put 2 on Franklin and on Roughead. Double team Franklin and Rough kicks 5 or Vice Versa.

Dowler is not yet good enough to command the same respect. He can be stopped with 1 defender.

For this reason we cannot remove Roughead from the forward line. We will rob 2 for the price of 1.

The other way to look at it is if we have a tall power forward line that demands the opposition using their tall stocks on our forward line, then it robs the opposition of key talls for their own forward line.

We are better off putting Gibson into the CHB role, with Gilham at FB, and concede Hodge will remain 3rd man up down back. We won a flag with that structure and with 4 rebounding talls in Gilham, Shoe, Birchall and Gibbo complemented by Hodge patrolling the back 6, we will have a formiddable backline and one that will be able to counter attack quickly.

If it can counter attack quickly, opposition will be hesitant to committ too many players forward knowing the counter attack will expose them.

Defend by attacking.

 

[Tomohawks]

If you took Roughead out of the forwardline can you imagine the glee from the opposition. Teams have nightmares about our duo and rightly so. IMO Roughy plays back we don't win the flag. Also isn't this the reason we got Gibbo to replace croady and don't forget the F1.

 

[Trent Berger]

As I said in my post I knew this would not be popular but I stand by the option. Like the Pagans and Sheedys of the world, you MUST look at all options. I have a few years on me and I can remember that Trent Croad was ALWAYS thought of only as a CH forward. Thats why Fremantle recruited him.

Another very famous FB I had something to do with (at another club) was always a forward as a junior but was thrown down back to fill a hole. His premiership medallions don't specify where he played but it was at fullback!

Yes Roughy is very good up forward but he is better value up back IMO. Gibson will be a good back up to him and Gilham. Neither is a true KP and Roughie is! History dictates that you must have good KPs up back to win GFs. We beat Geelong primarily when Harley was missing. Check the replay. It is compelling!!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

^^^^^

It's horses for courses for mine TB.

Have no problem pushing Rough back for example to play on J Brown, if other guys are in form at the other end of the ground.

There's still a lot to like about a forward line of:

FF: Rioli - Dowler - Hodge

HF: Brown - Buddy - Burgoyne

 

[kirbatron]

I would really like to see Roughie play a lead up role. Even for a match to see how he goes, much like Cloke/Ruey do. However not sure if he's fit enough.

That may leave room for an extra defender to drop back on Buddy to curb his space, but if Lance is left one out with space, his pace & height would really frighten a few clubs.

I also like Dowler 1-on-1 in some space.

 

[kolchak]

I like the theory of the opposition not being able to double team both Franklin and Roughie, although, if you moved Hodge forward to compensate Roughie going back it would be a very different proposition for a key defender. Perhaps in games where the opposition have a monstor forward this could be a decent tactic.

 

[kolchak]

I would really like to see Roughie play a lead up role. Even for a match to see how he goes, much like Cloke/Ruey do. However not sure if he's fit enough.

That may leave room for an extra defender to drop back on Buddy to curb his space, but if Lance is left one out with space, his pace & height would really frighten a few clubs.

I also like Dowler 1-on-1 in some space.

Roughie is definately fit enough, when he really starts getting off his ass he is going to be an extremely deadly weapon.

 

[Simon Pyman]

Re Lisle, my gut feel is that he will spend all his time at BH unless we get injuries or he hits some rare form.

Re structure, Clarko mentioned that he sees Hooper replacing Willo. I was more hoping our forward line would look something like:

FF: Dowler - Roughead - Rioli
HF: Osborne - Buddy - Hooper

I would swap Rioli and Hooper. I think that Rioli will be spending more time in the midfield this year.

 

[Simon Pyman]

As I said in my post I knew this would not be popular but I stand by the option. Like the Pagans and Sheedys of the world, you MUST look at all options. I have a few years on me and I can remember that Trent Croad was ALWAYS thought of only as a CH forward. Thats why Fremantle recruited him.

Another very famous FB I had something to do with (at another club) was always a forward as a junior but was thrown down back to fill a hole. His premiership medallions don't specify where he played but it was at fullback!

Yes Roughy is very good up forward but he is better value up back IMO. Gibson will be a good back up to him and Gilham. Neither is a true KP and Roughie is! History dictates that you must have good KPs up back to win GFs. We beat Geelong primarily when Harley was missing. Check the replay. It is compelling!!

I agree with this. Roughie is a CHB, skilled enough to play anywhere though.

Why note alternate Shoey & Roughie depending on the opposition?

That ought to screw with the opposition.