Our Reliance on small fwds in finals - are we kidding ourselves?

[magicpants]

The mike sheahan and robbo comedy show on the hun website did raise a decent point in questioning whether our key smalls ie leon, didak etc can get it done in September.

I love these players as much as the next guy but it is a concern against the best teams and defenders so I really think we need to develop a gameplan to produce more goals from our KPF's by playing one of Cloke/Dawes or Anthony(subject to form) closer to goal.

If we dont work on this over the 2nd half of the season then I think we may be in for some recurring nightmares around mid to late september!

Thoughts?

 

[ralu]

Certainly.

But if Cloke can reproduce his 2007 finals form (especially the prelim v Geelong) that will help us enormously. If Fraser can happen to do something up forward (which I still think he can) this is an obvious bonus.

 

[HFF]

If you look at our goal scoring record vs Geel and Saints last couple of times, you will see that we have had more than enough chances to win the games comfortably but poor conversion has hurt us badly. This is our biggest weakness IMO as we seem to be our own worst enemies at certain times.

It doesn't matter who is taking the shots or kicking for goal, if everyone is missing them, which has been the case already this season vs Saints and Geelong where we could have/should have won both games.

The other biggest concern is actually playing our KPF deep in attack rather than having them to high up the ground- again was the case in both games where we played Geel/StK. In those games, we rarely had a key target deep inside 50 which made our scoring shots numbers even more remarkable considering we were forced to find other avenues.

Having said all that, I have seen enough from both games to suggest we are on the right track in terms of challenging any side for honours come September and have ample time to get things right until then.

 

[magicpants]

If you look at our goal scoring record vs Geel and Saints last couple of times, you will see that we have had more than enough chances to win the games comfortably but poor conversion has hurt us badly. This is our biggest weakness IMO as we seem to be our own worst enemies at certain times.

It doesn't matter who is taking the shots or kicking for goal, if everyone is missing them, which has been the case already this season vs Saints and Geelong where we could have/should have won both games.

The other biggest concern is actually playing our KPF deep in attack rather than having them to high up the ground- again was the case in both games where we played Geel/StK. In those games, we rarely had a key target deep inside 50 which made our scoring shots numbers even more remarkable considering we were forced to find other avenues.

Having said all that, I have seen enough from both games to suggest we are on the right track in terms of challenging any side for honours come September and have ample time to get things right until then.

This is my point exactly but I think we need to concentrate on developing a system where we have a stay at home tall forward BUT I think with this full court press MM has employed we lose any such structure. I think this is what has possibly hurt Jacks game as he has found himself more around CHF then FF during the games he played.

 

[Pie eyed]

The mike sheahan and robbo comedy show on the hun website did raise a decent point in questioning whether our key smalls ie leon, didak etc can get it done in September.

I love these players as much as the next guy but it is a concern against the best teams and defenders so I really think we need to develop a gameplan to produce more goals from our KPF's by playing one of Cloke/Dawes or Anthony(subject to form) closer to goal.

If we dont work on this over the 2nd half of the season then I think we may be in for some recurring nightmares around mid to late september!

Thoughts?

Take away Reiwoldt and the Saints are in the same boat as us. Geelong have a very similar reliance on small forwards and mids.

The big forwards are there to bring the ball to ground and keep it in the 50m arc until one of the small fleet can get a scoring shot. There entire gameplan is to move the ball by any means into the forward fifty and don't let it out until they have a score.

We can do that too.

Saints have a more potent dominant forward and like to ry and get him one out in space with Milne and Ablett coming in ater the ball hits the deck, but once in they rely on keeping that ball int there until they score. They are nowhere near as good as Geelong at doing this, ergo the lower scores and more reliance on a constrictive defence as well.

Against both we managed to manufacture high numbers of inside 50's but we shot ourselves in the foot with inaccurate kicking.
I'm not worried about how we are going to score against these sides or whether we will score, but what we will score. Goals or points.

 

[Art Corvelay]

The other biggest concern is actually playing our KPF deep in attack rather than having them to high up the ground- again was the case in both games where we played Geel/StK. In those games, we rarely had a key target deep inside 50 which made our scoring shots numbers even more remarkable considering we were forced to find other avenues.

In those types of game it almost pays to play with the 3 talls (Cloke/Dawes/Anthony) - and simply instruct one of them (Anthony?) that they have to play and lead from the goal square. Assuming the game is played in the same manner as the Cats game, with Cloke getting kicks on the wing and Dawes playing from CHF, I'd say Anthony would relish an empty 50 to lead into.

The only worry with the 3 tall setup against both the Saints & Cats is the rebound they'd be able to generate from defense. I'm not sure they'd be able to drop a man loose in defense in either; cause that'd mean they'd be leaving Medders/Leon free, which would be equally as dangerous.

 

[TradeDraft]

True, Our Tall FWDS have not Done Really Much and we Relay on Small Forwards and our Mids to Kick Goals

 

[daics cousin]

A fit and firing Rusling could be thrown into the side come finals time.

That's why we are making sure he is tip top before hew comes back into the side.

What the hell anyway last time Rusling played was during a final series a few years back and he surprised added a diffrent dimension.

I know we have Dawes,Cloke and Anthony..................Rusling could be the surprise.Would be great to see him tearing up the forward fifty with his leads,would add a different dimension,to our forward structure at the right time of year.

If hje isn't fit then we still have Cloke,Dawesa and Anthony to rely on.

 

[DWil6]

Take away Reiwoldt and the Saints are in the same boat as us. Geelong have a very similar reliance on small forwards and mids.

The cats have won a couple of premierships with no gun KPF.

 

[Pie eyed]

In those types of game it almost pays to play with the 3 talls (Cloke/Dawes/Anthony) - and simply instruct one of them (Anthony?) that they have to play and lead from the goal square. Assuming the game is played in the same manner as the Cats game, with Cloke getting kicks on the wing and Dawes playing from CHF, I'd say Anthony would relish an empty 50 to lead into.

The only worry with the 3 tall setup against both the Saints & Cats is the rebound they'd be able to generate from defense. I'm not sure they'd be able to drop a man loose in defense in either; cause that'd mean they'd be leaving Medders/Leon free, which would be equally as dangerous.

Just a bit out of the box, I'd love to see Sidey at FF for a game, say against West Coast with Cloke playing fairly close by.

 

[DWil6]

Just a bit out of the box, I'd love to see Sidey at FF for a game, say against West Coast with Cloke playing fairly close by.

I doubt he has any one strength that would make him a viable FF at the moment. Not overly quick, tall or strong.

 

[Pie eyed]

I doubt he has any one strength that would make him a viable FF at the moment. Not overly quick, tall or strong.

Has a good idea where the goals are though.
I'm not pushing for a spot for him. I'd just love to see it for a quarter or two.

 

[Blaster]

Unless Dawes and cloke have a big finals series, there is no way collingwood can win a premiership relying on Leon and didak to do all the gunt and glory work. Leon is fickle. didak goes missing. We need Dawes.

Unless he plays like he did against Carlton, Collingwood can not challenge Geelong or a Rewoildt led St kilda.

 

[buzzbuzz]

A fit and firing Rusling could be thrown into the side come finals time.

That's why we are making sure he is tip top before hew comes back into the side.

What the hell anyway last time Rusling played was during a final series a few years back and he surprised added a diffrent dimension.

I know we have Dawes,Cloke and Anthony..................Rusling could be the surprise.Would be great to see him tearing up the forward fifty with his leads,would add a different dimension,to our forward structure at the right time of year.

If hje isn't fit then we still have Cloke,Dawesa and Anthony to rely on.

I can't believe people still think Rusling will play another AFL game for the Pies.

 

[Blaster]

I can't believe people still think Rusling will play another AFL game for the Pies.

Rusling LOL.

 

[Bay Pie]

Unless Dawes and cloke have a big finals series, there is no way collingwood can win a premiership relying on Leon and didak to do all the gunt and glory work. Leon is fickle. didak goes missing. We need Dawes.

Unless he plays like he did against Carlton, Collingwood can not challenge Geelong or a Rewoildt led St kilda.

Biggest myth about Collingwood.

Have a look at Didaks record in finals.

2002 solid/good in all 3 finals in his 2nd year at AFL level. Sealer against the Crows in the PF.
2003 Kicked the 2 crucial goals in the QF & another 3 in the GF. Can't remember hwo in did in the smashing of Port in the PF but Leon kicked 3??
2006 Solid in athe 1 game and had a knee reco 2 weeks later
2007 Very good against Swans in EF, BOG v WCE in SF, Good V Geelong in PF. Beat Enright that day.
2008 Missed due to club suspension
2009 Yep, quiet QF & PF(not on his own there). OK in SF v Crows

He has disappointed in 1 finals series in the 5 he's played.

Back to topic, we need Travis, Dawes/JA/L.Brown & the resting ruckman to take contested marks and kick straight if we are to go all the way. That group will need to contribute about 4 goals a game for us to do this and create many contests for our crumbers.

 

[Blaster]

Well clearly if that is the case. Didak, alone, is not enough. Hey.

Let me rephrase that:-

Didak needs to play out of his skin for Collingwood to compete with Geelong and St Kilda in finals.

What happens is someone like Clint Jones or Cameron Ling gives Didak a belting behind play and that slows him.

Happened last year.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

I think it can only be beneficial having a variety of forwards who can kick goals. There's notihng wrong with out breakout of small forwards, the Key Forwards will play a role regardless if they aren't kicking bags of goals.

 

[hellfire]

Didak has learned how to break a tag, and our players are now working to block for him more. I say ****ing bring on the serial pest Clinton Jones, Dids will towel him up. He is a more mature player now, he can beat the hard-tag and he will lead us to glory!

We just need our other smalls to follow suit, and for our talls to actually create contests that give our smalls opportunities around goal. I'll back Leon to have a stellar finals series if he gets quality supply, and consistent contests from our talls.

 

[HeavyPop]

Jones' has been shown to disappear when targeted. We roughed him up in Round 3 and he basically went missing the entire game.

 

[mattys123]

Let's face it, we failed last year for one reason, FITNESS (Injuries).

In the finals series, and especially up forward, our players just weren't any where near fit, which you can either put down to bad player management, or just plain old bad luck.

In last year's finals series, we had;

Brad Dick (shoulder, would later have a reco)
Medhurst (foot, played 2 finals, and was woeful)
Davis (legs were wrapped up like a mummy, and played accordingly)
Swan (Buttock muscle tear)

I added Swan because he is an integral part of our forward line, in not only scoring himself, but setting up goals also.

The only real fit forwards during last years final series were Anthony, Cloke and Leigh Brown, and while Cloke and Brown were admirable, apart from one kick against Adelaide, Jack was terrible.

This year, we need a different forward line going in.

My 7 would be (1 on bench);

HF: Beams, Cloke, Didak
F: Medhurst, Dawes, Davis
Int: Dick

Also add Sidebottom, Swan, Pendles, Ball, Jolly, Fraser and other mids who will rotate forward, and all we need is our forwards fit and in some form and our forward line should perform.

 

[Pie eyed]

Let's face it, we failed last year for one reason, FITNESS (Injuries).

In the finals series, and especially up forward, our players just weren't any where near fit, which you can either put down to bad player management, or just plain old bad luck.

In last year's finals series, we had;

Brad Dick (shoulder, would later have a reco)
Medhurst (foot, played 2 finals, and was woeful)
Davis (legs were wrapped up like a mummy, and played accordingly)
Swan (Buttock muscle tear)

I added Swan because he is an integral part of our forward line, in not only scoring himself, but setting up goals also.

The only real fit forwards during last years final series were Anthony, Cloke and Leigh Brown, and while Cloke and Brown were admirable, apart from one kick against Adelaide, Jack was terrible.

This year, we need a different forward line going in.

My 7 would be (1 on bench);

HF: Beams, Cloke, Didak
F: Medhurst, Dawes, Davis
Int: Dick

Also add Sidebottom, Swan, Pendles, Ball, Jolly, Fraser and other mids who will rotate forward, and all we need is our forwards fit and in some form and our forward line should perform.

Plus Matrix with a broken leg.

 

[Bay Pie]

Well clearly if that is the case. Didak, alone, is not enough. Hey.

Let me rephrase that:-

Didak needs to play out of his skin for Collingwood to compete with Geelong and St Kilda in finals.

What happens is someone like Clint Jones or Cameron Ling gives Didak a belting behind play and that slows him.

Happened last year.

I don't disagree with that. I too, think we need some our tall forwards to play very well for us to win some big finals. Even if Leon, Medders & Dids
all played well, I'm not sure it would be enough.

side note: Ling will go to Pendles, not Didak.

 

[Thommo 42]

Didak was also our best player in last years Prelim along with Thomas. From memory he kicked 2 goals and had close to 30 disposals

 

[pantsmillane]

How deluded pies fans continue to see Rusling as the great white hope is beyond me as it is clear that his body cannot stand the rigours of AFL football and although he has played 3 or 4 decent games I haven't seen anything yet that says to me he is the difference between a pies priemership or otherwise. Time to move past this thread as Rusling ain't the answer.