Outcomes Based Education

[Freo Big Fella]

I realise this is kind of WA centric at the moment, but I'm interested in what people here have to say about the in-vogue alternative teaching method at the moment.


It's a fundamentally flawed theory IMO. It's all about telling kids what they can do, which is really nice and all, but to really have scope for improvement, kids also need to know what they're doing wrong to be able to rectify it. I only had one year under the system in 2002, but found that I was left with very little idea of where I stood ( A (82%) with a decent comment from the teachers as how I was going being more revealing).


Thoughts?

 

[Slacker]

All the teachers I know are opposed to OBE. Makes you wonder how it will be implemented successfully when it does not have grass roots support, note that OBEs success even tougher by the fact that it is a bad system IMO.

OBE appears to be trying to avoid discouraging students by not failing them, ie the basic thrust is self improvement rather than measuring yourself against peers. Without wanting to sound too Randian, my problem with the system is that you can’t avoid the stigma of failure without devaluing success at the same time. Success is a very important driver for people.

Another major issue with the system is that it leaves parents with less knowledge of how their kids are going at school. One of the W.A. papers did a comparison between a traditional graded report and an OBE report. The comparison was fairly damning, the normal report left little doubt to how the student was performing while the OBE report was incredibly vague and frankly close to worthless.

Lastly, OBE does not prepare people for the world after school where you are immediately thrown in to direct competition against your peers.

 

[CharlieG]

There's got to be some sort of middle ground. I could certainly think of a few of my old school friends that did finish, but went through periods of self-doubt and disillusionment with their education. They probably would have quit if they were being constantly told they weren't good enough. Some sort of qualification - even a VCE or equivalent - really is essential for most people now. So keeping students interested and willing to learn must be considered a teaching goal.

On the other hand, there is very little incentive for those in the middle to drive themselves to achieve, when all they're going to get for it is an 'S' as opposed to an 'NS'. It wasn't so much a problem for me - I admit that my ego and competitiveness motivated me a lot - but for others, I can see the problem. It isn't until year eleven that most students can actually see themselves getting something out of the work they put in. Also, many get to that stage with terrible literacy and numeracy skills - something that simply shouldn't be possible after eleven years of schooling.

I actually favour extending the 'VCE' or equivalent to years nine and ten. Require that students across the state all receive passes in the core subjects. Years nine and ten are the worst for student motivation - there just doesn't really seem to be a point to them. Including these years in the VCE (which really just means requiring a certain number of year nine and ten credits, as with year eleven) at least gives kids a reason to turn up and a sense of direction.

 

[Frodo]

Hasn't education always tried to be outcome based?

I mean, the outcome is supposed to be a person that fully achieves success to their ability and goes on to be a useful part of society.

What bothers me is that we are going in the opposite direction. When a teacher can't give a personal report and when they can't agree on the grading of an essay to the extreme that a large group marked the same one between 3 and 6 when the scope was 3 to 7, then surely we are going backwards.

The other concern is the significant amount of students who see education as a means to get a piece of paper rather than an opportunity to learn.

 

[UNIT]

If everyone would look past the Today Tonight/West Australian fuelled hysteria about how no one will be able to read or write or count to ten if OBE curriculum comes in, you would see its the best thing that could happen in education. Isnt it just about all children working to their own goals, and working to improve area the specific area's they need help in IE maths or english? The less competitve high school can become the better IMO.

 

[UNIT]

Hasn't education always tried to be outcome based?

I mean, the outcome is supposed to be a person that fully achieves success to their ability and goes on to be a useful part of society.

What bothers me is that we are going in the opposite direction. When a teacher can't give a personal report and when they can't agree on the grading of an essay to the extreme that a large group marked the same one between 3 and 6 when the scope was 3 to 7, then surely we are going backwards.

The other concern is the significant amount of students who see education as a means to get a piece of paper rather than an opportunity to learn.

But who isnt like that? With the move towards a degree factory mentality in our Universities where students are now 'clients' is it any wonder the emphasis has moved away from academia to commerce?

 

[Frodo]

The less competitve high school can become the better IMO.

Quite the contrary IMHO.

Schooling is preperation for adult life. Adult life is competitive. The child who becomes an adult and can't handle competition is liable to failure.

 

[Frodo]

But who isnt like that? With the move towards a degree factory mentality in our Universities where students are now 'clients' is it any wonder the emphasis has moved away from academia to commerce?

It is wrong thinking though. Too many people with degrees are duds who can't get jobs or last a few months and then are terminated.

 

[Borry]

This curent government has lost the plot and is possibly one of the most politically correct and worst governments we have had in W.A.

 

[wedesweiler]

This curent government has lost the plot and is possibly one of the most politically correct and worst governments we have had in W.A.

Possibly so, but sadly the To5spots in opposition offer pretty much the same.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Quite the contrary IMHO.

Schooling is preperation for adult life. Adult life is competitive. The child who becomes an adult and can't handle competition is liable to failure.

Social Darwinism Board

 

[Borry]

Possibly so, but sadly the To5spots in opposition offer pretty much the same.

Too true.

 

[Weaver]

Schooling is preperation for adult life. Adult life is competitive. The child who becomes an adult and can't handle competition is liable to failure.

But that competition is not necessarily exam-based, or report-writing based. That competition is decided by all sorts of intangibles such as customer service etc which can not be measured well in the school system.

 

[Borry]

All the teachers I know are opposed to OBE. Makes you wonder how it will be implemented successfully when it does not have grass roots support, note that OBEs success even tougher by the fact that it is a bad system IMO.

OBE appears to be trying to avoid discouraging students by not failing them, ie the basic thrust is self improvement rather than measuring yourself against peers. Without wanting to sound too Randian, my problem with the system is that you can’t avoid the stigma of failure without devaluing success at the same time. Success is a very important driver for people.

Another major issue with the system is that it leaves parents with less knowledge of how their kids are going at school. One of the W.A. papers did a comparison between a traditional graded report and an OBE report. The comparison was fairly damning, the normal report left little doubt to how the student was performing while the OBE report was incredibly vague and frankly close to worthless.

Lastly, OBE does not prepare people for the world after school where you are immediately thrown in to direct competition against your peers.

Full agree with those points made, good post. Pretty much my view on OBE. As far as I'm concerned it smacks of political correctness influencing government decision making gone mad.

Hope we win on Sunday.

 

[evo]

Social Darwinism Board

I take it from this you're against all forms of competition?

If thats so I'm suprised to find you on a football website.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I take it from this you're against all forms of competition?

If thats so I'm suprised to find you on a football website.

Not at all but there are inadequacies in the assessment of students merely by tests. As my family law lecturer used to say " assesment should be an invitation not a confrontation" - I have know brilliant people who cannot perform in an exam. I do not think that competition is the ideal method of people learning although I understand that it is necessarily part of the assessment regime

 

[Qsaint]

Not at all but there are inadequacies in the assessment of students merely by tests. As my family law lecturer used to say " assesment should be an invitation not a confrontation" - I have know brilliant people who cannot perform in an exam. I do not think that competition is the ideal method of people learning although I understand that it is necessarily part of the assessment regime

I went from the ACT (where we had no exams and continuous assesment) to Sydney Uni where you had exams that you couldn't swat the night before for. It was quite a shock, and a lot of brighter people from the ACT failed, where as the NSW kids didn't because they had the experience of the HSC.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I went from the ACT (where we had no exams and continuous assesment) to Sydney Uni where you had exams that you couldn't swat the night before for. It was quite a shock, and a lot of brighter people from the ACT failed, where as the NSW kids didn't because they had the experience of the HSC.

That is true but the application of knowlege in an exam is not like you use it in a job. As a advocate it can be because you can get a case at the last minute and the overnight research is exactly like an exam!