Kong
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Great OP. 
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Coaching Staff Past Coach: Matthew Knights - Finally gets his second shot - 5/5
- Thread starter Merv
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Kong
Hall of Famer
- Oct 11, 2007
- 32,120
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- AFL Club
- Essendon
Really? Was he laughed off air?he blamed knights for us not taking Joel selwood.
Voss, Lyon? Also wouldn't say he's far out performed ratten
Yes!
great thread
monfries_monster
Draftee
It is fairly obvious Myers was played in the 2's to get games in the midfield and develop in there. Most of his games in there were quality, culminating in being in the best many times and dominating in the clearances. This is where he will play most of his career for the Bombers it seems and will be a quality midfielder. And unfortunately for you Kelvin, we are screaming out for someone to help Jobe out and this is the man. And it will happen, and there is nothing you can do about it mate.
He was always recruited as a kid that has alot of improvement and upside, 2010 will see the proof of this. Even though NLM was good for most of his games this year, he makes to many mistakes and is inconsistent.
Super Gusto
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I think the statement was -
"has far out-performed any of the other coaches of similar experience given the available talent at time of takeover"
Voss had A'graders - Brown, Black and Power
Lyon had A'graders - Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Fisher etc etc
Ratten had A'graders - Judd, Fevola - plus 3 no 1 draft picks - Murphy, Gibbs, Krezuer
Essendon's list was a shambles when Knights took over.
The previous years B&F (Hird) had just retired and our best players Fletcher,Lloyd and Lucas were all into their 30's and were past their best football.
Considering these details you would have to agree Knight's performance to get Essendon to the finals in 2 years was a huge achievement. He has made mistakes along the way but surely at the very least, he deserves your respect for this.
Nice work Bruno.
I still have a few concerns regarding Matthew Knights as a coach. Most of these have been mentioned above - some selection decisions etc, but also that on game day I believe he is prone to getting out thought at present. Maybe this is a reflection on assistant coaches. However overall I am happy with Knights and believe he should get a contract extension. His great strengths are developing an overall game plan and man management.
As to Sheedy, certainly his last couple of seasons were not his best. However many of the players highlighted - Ryder etc - were selections under Sheedy. Ryder's improvement has been as much about the fact that he's had 3 years under his belt developing in the backline as about Knights coaching. Watson was already playing midfield under Sheedy. I wouldn't read too much into player interviews regarding Knights - I mean what young player in their right mind is going to say "To be honest I preferred Sheeds and I don't think Knighter is great at getting the message across". Also Sheedy still meets with a number of the players as an unofficial mentor type role - clearly not disliked by the playing group.
As I say, overall I'm happy with Knights at this stage. Yes I loved Sheeds, but the time had come for him to go.
I still have a few concerns regarding Matthew Knights as a coach. Most of these have been mentioned above - some selection decisions etc, but also that on game day I believe he is prone to getting out thought at present. Maybe this is a reflection on assistant coaches. However overall I am happy with Knights and believe he should get a contract extension. His great strengths are developing an overall game plan and man management.
As to Sheedy, certainly his last couple of seasons were not his best. However many of the players highlighted - Ryder etc - were selections under Sheedy. Ryder's improvement has been as much about the fact that he's had 3 years under his belt developing in the backline as about Knights coaching. Watson was already playing midfield under Sheedy. I wouldn't read too much into player interviews regarding Knights - I mean what young player in their right mind is going to say "To be honest I preferred Sheeds and I don't think Knighter is great at getting the message across". Also Sheedy still meets with a number of the players as an unofficial mentor type role - clearly not disliked by the playing group.
As I say, overall I'm happy with Knights at this stage. Yes I loved Sheeds, but the time had come for him to go.
Seen a lot of trashing Matthew for decisions about individual players, selections etc.
What about the game plan? Surely that's the most significant change that he's made since Sheedy, and it's the thing that's won us games against sides like Collingwood, St Kilda, Carlton, etc. this year.
That's all down to Knights backing his young players to perform and playing them for long stretches, which wasn't happening under Sheedy.
The criticism is ridiculous, our goal this year before the season would have been about 10 wins and all bomber fans would have taken that pre season, and then especially after Hille went down and Lucas lost his form.
Move on, let's talk about something else for a change.
What about the game plan? Surely that's the most significant change that he's made since Sheedy, and it's the thing that's won us games against sides like Collingwood, St Kilda, Carlton, etc. this year.
That's all down to Knights backing his young players to perform and playing them for long stretches, which wasn't happening under Sheedy.
The criticism is ridiculous, our goal this year before the season would have been about 10 wins and all bomber fans would have taken that pre season, and then especially after Hille went down and Lucas lost his form.
Move on, let's talk about something else for a change.
You can't have it both ways.
You can't just claim credit for all the good things then blame the state of the club for all the bad things.
If I were Melbourne I would be wrapped with what he's done with the list. Recognised that they were NEVER going to win with the side that was there so do his utmost to get games into the blokes that may have a tilt in a number of years, and be best placed to build their list. Massive tick. (Helped by the fact that they can't play)
Harvey IMO has also recognised the same thing and whilst having his floors it would be hard to argue that Knights has been a better coach than him based on the players he's had at his disposal.
Super Gusto
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What are you talking about. Who's having it both way's???
I'm simply stating fact's and backing up the statement originally made be efcboy that given the state of Essendons list when he took over, Knights has out-performed the other coaches in the same situation.
Dean Bailey is doing a great job rebuilding Melbourne but they have finished bottom of the ladder the last two seasons.
Mark Harvey has just started rebuilding Freo after stuffing about for a couple of years with recylcing old players etc.
Knights started rebuilding as soon as he took over but didn;t bottom out like Bailey and Harvey so you can;t reasonably say that they have performed better than him.
I'm not totally convinced that we will win a premiership under Knights but as it stands he is doing a great job rebuilding and there is many positives to be taken out of the last two year.
So keep up your negative crap if it makes you happy but realistically you just end up looking stupid.
Pull your head in... This isn't being negative, i'm just saying it as I see it.
We'd already bottomed out over the last 3 years of sheedy's rain. During those times we started stockpiling some pretty handy young players.
Baily's list was an absolute disaster when he got it. Far worse than what Knights had. He had a much bigger clean out to do and stuff all good youngsters.
Baily had no decision but to move on a massive chunk of his senior players and start feeding time into his youngsters which he's done very well and remained competitive in many games this year.
My main negative toward Knights this year was that he neglected the likes of Myers, T Slatter, Daniher Zaharakis & Houli in favour of blokes like NLM, Skipworth, Mcphee & co. He also makes some rediculous moves & decisions. See preliminary final.
If you see it differently then great.
If you want to compile an arguement that Knights has been a better coach than either of these two guys then you could only really be doing it on the back of Essendon finishing higher on the ladder. This would make you a narrow minded fool.
Super Gusto
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Finishing higher on the ladder is not a bad way to mount an argument.
And how are you compiling a great argument for Bailey and Harvey?
So Bailey has been playing the youngster because he hasn't got anyone else to play. Fantastic. Good on him. They've only won 7 games over two seasons. How can you compare his performance to Knights?
So you're saying if Knights played Myers, T Slatter, Daniher Zaharakis & Houli instead of NLM, Skipworth and Mcphee then you would judge his coaching performance higher than Bailey's?
As for Harvey. How does he rate so highly in your opinion?
Because he has started playing kids this year? So what. He's still finished 14th in both of this full seasons as coach.
Bailey and Harvey might end up being better coaches than Knight but on the available evidence at the moment you can;t possibly support this argument.
We weren't bottoming out pal, the Dons were heading for a junk bond rating under old Sheeds.
And by the way, Sheedy stockpiling players smells of Knighter stockpiling all those young guns you mentioned, so what's the difference.
And you're the fool who wanted Hislop retained. You are inept.
it's clear you don't know anything about football, tbh.
nothing you've said really carries any weight, however i will remind you of a couple of things.
first of all, melbourne tanked for 2 years solid. won 7 games. knights could have gone that way too, but he didn't, and we are much closer to a flag than melbourne are because of it.
secondly, we didn't play kids? what happened when we beat hawthorn in round 7 with the youngest 22 to EVER play the game. then with pretty much the same team we nearly beat st kilda.
he's made mistakes, of course. skippy was a waste of time. but who knows how he's helped the kids behind the scenes.
i'm perfectly happy with how knights has gone. pretty sure measuring performance isn't just based on ladder position, but it sure does help.
we made the finals this year, and we're only going to get better. bailey and harvey might be out of a job this time next year.
are you sure you aren't one of the peanuts calling up bagging knights?
Way to not take on board anything i've said.
Super Gusto
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Put together some intelligent statements and I'll be happy to take them on board.
Knights has done a great job because he had a crap list.
He's a better coach than Baily because he finished higher on the ladder.
Brisbane are full of stars so you can't compare Knights to Voss. (Note same arguement you have when suggesting that Knights is better performed than Baily.
These are your intelegent posts. Super well balanced and analytical.
Your relatively thick unfortunately so not much point in continuing this conversation.
it's clear you don't know anything about football, tbh.
nothing you've said really carries any weight, however i will remind you of a couple of things.
first of all, melbourne tanked for 2 years solid. won 7 games. knights could have gone that way too, but he didn't, and we are much closer to a flag than melbourne are because of it.
secondly, we didn't play kids? what happened when we beat hawthorn in round 7 with the youngest 22 to EVER play the game. then with pretty much the same team we nearly beat st kilda.
he's made mistakes, of course. skippy was a waste of time. but who knows how he's helped the kids behind the scenes.
i'm perfectly happy with how knights has gone. pretty sure measuring performance isn't just based on ladder position, but it sure does help.
we made the finals this year, and we're only going to get better. bailey and harvey might be out of a job this time next year.
are you sure you aren't one of the peanuts calling up bagging knights?
You're an intersting one aren't you...
Bailey tanked for 2 years. He played the right players and dropped all the dead weight off his list and has subsequently put it in a position where it actually has something to build on now.
Knights has done some excellent things which i've acknowleged. He's also done some ordinary things &.... he's done some rediculous things.
By suggesting that we are now closer to a flag than what Melbourne are is completely irrelevant when comparing Bailey and Knights as a coach.
As I said, Knights took over an ordinary list that required alot of chopping. But within that list, he had some relatively good youngish players - Watson, Ryder, Dempsey, Lonnergan Winderlich, Monfries, Stanton etc. Couple these guys with Lucas, Fletcher, Lloyd, Hille and you have a competitive team.
Melbourne's lilst was in complete dissaray when Bailey took over. Of course all things being equal Essendon are going to be closer to a flag than Melbourne. It's hardly a way to justify someone being a good coach though.
Pretty clear you don't know anything about football tbh.
For the record, I don't mind him as a coach. He's done some good things but as far as i'm concerned, has a very long way to go and only time will tell if he actually is a 'good' coach or just an ordinary coach with alot of spin.
so what exactly makes bailey a better coach? what has bailey done better than knights? i'm basically asking when you're going to make a point, other than ramble.
it was argued at the end of 2007 that of the 3 clubs looking for new coaches, carlton AND melbourne had a better list than essendon. so your opinion that melbourne's list was in disarray is made only with the value of hindsight (and maybe had something to do with the respective coaches of those 3 clubs?)
you've said knights has done some 'rediculous' things. what things?
cleaned out a list? knights has cleaned out our list a great deal, and made finals.
played the 'right players'. yep. knights has tried to win. bailey hasn't. he may have done irreperable damage to some of his players, who knows. at least our young players have had a taste of finals.
you're right about comparing coaches who took over clubs at the same time, with a similar level of disarray about the list. it's silly to compare them. best to base the comparison only on the stockpiling of draft picks through tanking
yep, that's the best way.
but bailey is a good coach huh, because he's tanked for 2 years to get draft picks. awesome.
so what exactly makes bailey a better coach? what has bailey done better than knights? i'm basically asking when you're going to make a point, other than ramble.
it was argued at the end of 2007 that of the 3 clubs looking for new coaches, carlton AND melbourne had a better list than essendon. so your opinion that melbourne's list was in disarray is made only with the value of hindsight (and maybe had something to do with the respective coaches of those 3 clubs?)
you've said knights has done some 'rediculous' things. what things?
cleaned out a list? knights has cleaned out our list a great deal, and made finals.
played the 'right players'. yep. knights has tried to win. bailey hasn't. he may have done irreperable damage to some of his players, who knows. at least our young players have had a taste of finals.
you're right about comparing coaches who took over clubs at the same time, with a similar level of disarray about the list. it's silly to compare them. best to base the comparison only on the stockpiling of draft picks through tanking
You don't get it...
Baily's done the right thing by his list. He's dropped the dead weight off his list and is building some real quality into it. How hard is that for you to understand you little pea brain.
It's difficult for you to comprehend that when a team is in total disaray, they need to go backward before they can go forward.
