Injury Patrick McCartin

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Helmets wont help people!! concussions are caused due to the movement of the brain in the skull. A helmet doesn't change that, just look at the problems the NFL are having to see how ineffective they are with concussions.

The more concussions you have, the more you are susceptible to them in the long run, as somebody above said, Tippett went through a similar period, but now seems to have gotten over it, to at least some degree.

I hope our club has learned it's lessons from burning out young players like Kosi, Ball, the Clarks etc. and plays the long game with Paddy. At least a month off for mine.
 
If there is any issue they will bench him for the rest of the year and if there is 1 more they probably will.
I don't see an issue with his awareness or being fragile just bad luck where as Kosi seemed to have poor peripheral vision.
As said above helmets help prevent cracking of the skull but not concussion but some people fell more confident wearing them
 
Absolutely stick him in a helmet. Take no more chances with him; repeat concussions cause cumulative effects on the brain.

Concussions are graded on 3 different levels (1-mild, 2-moderate, 3-severe).

In a mild concussion (grade 1) there is no loss of consciousness. And the symptoms last for less than 15 minutes.
In a moderate concussion (grade 2) there is no loss of consciousness, however the symptoms last longer than 15 minutes. (Btw, this is why in the AFL it's a 20 minute rule, to give adequate time to evaluate whether they're okay or not).
In a severe concussion (grade 3), they lose consciousness, even if it's just for a couple of seconds it will automatically be graded as severe.

Round 3 vs Collingwood - Would fall under a grade 1 or 2, mild or moderate, he definitely didn't lose consciousness as he was up to take his kick straight away. But was kept out of the game for the remainder of the day shortly after, now with a mild concussion he would have been technically fine to return to the field as the symptoms were less than 15 mins (cleared by the time 20 mins came around), but the club might have been precautionary with it. Seemed alright in the following quarters on the bench in terms of how he looked, giving high fives to those who came onto the bench for a rest so mild with a chance of moderate is the gut feel, he played the following week against the Hawks.

Round 11 vs Adelaide - Hit first in the front of the head by Newnes where he seemed okay as he flinched back instinctively, the second hit on the back of the head by the Crows player is what seemed to really jolt the brain though. Consciousness likely lost for a few seconds at least, can't find an extended replay of the whole situation but has his hands slightly raised above his head in what was likely a fencing response which is where after moderate forces are applied to the brain(stem), the forearms are held flexed or extended (typically into the air). The absolute prime example of this was the Harbow/Lewis incident I think we all remember with Lewis' arms held out flexed into the air. Surveys have shown this occurs in about 2/3 of head impacts involving concussion.

Perhaps the encouraging sign- if there is one- is that the arms weren't held out in such an extreme fashion. As he was stretchered off (likely determined he had a loss of equilibrium, one of the main factors in determining concussion grades) and not selected the following week- we can probably grade this one as severe (grade 3) with confidence. He was tested by a neuropsychologist shortly after the incident, put through a series of cognitive tests and was symptom-free 3 days later. This was "encouraging" and thus ruled out any on-going effects.

5 days ago Paddy replied when asked if he was worried about his future from these concussion effects, "not really". Said he knew he was surrounded by great people in our club doctors who are absolutely ensuring his safety and conceded he probably isn't worried simply because of how young he is and the fact that he isn't looking too far into the future.

Round 15 vs Gold Coast - Based on the vision you can't tell if he lost consciousness or not but it's a possibility. Fencing response seemed to occur again, nothing extreme like Jordan Lewis but similar to Adelaide incident. Seemed dazed but could walk/run off the field with the docs. Again probably a grade 3 (severe) concussion as the fencing response isn't a conscious movement and occurs once the person is unconscious. As you can see from the vision, after he is hit by Membrey's body, his arms initially go down to the floor to protect him from the fall as he's still conscious but about half a second later as he falls unconscious they go into the sort of fencing position.

+VFL concussion 13 months ago - missed a week and the concussion resulted in a laceration that needed 12 stitches.
+Concussion representing VIC Country in the Championships in 2014 - don't have details on this incident nor vision of either of the two I don't think so hard to analyse.

Now I'm definitely not an expert on the fencing position if these are indeed those incidents, but there's a youtube video with a compilation of fencing repsonses in sports/fights and the two possible fencing responses of Paddy's definitely seem mild in comparison, so that's something, not as severe or extreme. Perhaps an expert on this could shed some more light. One of the clips in this video shows the arm of an unconscious boxer continue to punch the air as he laid on the ground on his back... horrific stuff.



Needs a helmet for precautionary purposes and ease of mind (no pun intended). Even if he still gets himself into these positions, which I'm sure he will (seems a Roo/J Brown clone) the helmet hopefully reduces impact of these hits.

Best wishes for him.
 

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sad to see about paddy. Probably give him the year off. Get him to loose a few more kg so he has a bit more of a tank and make him wear a helmet next season.

Good luck the guy and his future what ever it may be
 
Genuinly worried for this kid. Those suggesting a helmet need to know that could actually make it worse!

If he goes out on the field thinking the helmet will keep him safe he is going to keep throwing himself around and getting hurt. The concussion happens when the brain hits the inside of the skull which causes bruising or bleeding. A helmet will protect his skull on the outside but his brain is still slamming just as hard.

Put him on ice, sit him down and work out a way he can play without getting killed :(
 
Have a read of 'white winmars' post in the Paddy thread on SS. He seems to have some medical background/research and has shown there is a direct correlation with his diabetes to being susceptible to concussions. So much so that it may affect his mid to long term health - worrying signs!
 

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Do the helmets really do anything? Surely the huge impact is still going to be there to rattle the brain around and cause a concussion?
 
harrow90 said:
Do the helmets really do anything? Surely the huge impact is still going to be there to rattle the brain around and cause a concussion?
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For concussions there is no evidence that helmets do anything to prevent.

As has been alluded to above, it can actually lead to the players having a false sense of confidence which leads to them putting themselves in more dangerous positions.
 
So he has had 5 concussions in two years which is quite alarming.
I did some research on when you should an athlete should call it quits on contact sport after concussions. However, there was no 'magic number' is what they called it.
We need Paddy to be a 12 year player but with all these concussions I fear we may not get that goes too hard for his own good some could say.
I also remember not long ago there was a wrestler named Daniel Bryan who retired from wrestling from medical recoemndation because he had 10 documented concussions over a 15 year career. Paddy is not even two years into his football career and is halfway there.
 
Luke_sainters said:
So he has had 5 concussions in two years which is quite alarming.
I did some research on when you should an athlete should call it quits on contact sport after concussions. However, there was no 'magic number' is what they called it.
We need Paddy to be a 12 year player but with all these concussions I fear we may not get that goes too hard for his own good some could say.
I also remember not long ago there was a wrestler named Daniel Bryan who retired from wrestling from medical recoemndation because he had 10 documented concussions over a 15 year career. Paddy is not even two years into his football career and is halfway there.
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You can't compare this to Daniel Bryan, who would've had plenty more than 10 concussions throughout his career and a lot of those would've been unreported and untreated. He also tried to hide post concussion seizures that he had, Paddy's issues aren't nearly as bad as his.
 
StKing11 said:
You can't compare this to Daniel Bryan, who would've had plenty more than 10 concussions throughout his career and a lot of those would've been unreported and untreated. He also tried to hide post concussion seizures that he had, Paddy's issues aren't nearly as bad as his.
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Paddy has five that we know of.
Yes, and I am saying if he gets more it could get to that stage of seizures in very little time if he keeps copping head knocks he could get those symptoms.
And yes I can & will compare it to this bloke, because this is what could happen potentially worst case scenario.
 
Personally would like to see him get the rest of the year off, that way he will hopefully be right for our next tilt at the flag. For those supporters that are upset that he cost us a #1 draft pick & appears to be susceptical to concussion, just be thankful he didn't cost us $6 million & got concussed in the twos.
 
I'm sure the doctors will have more idea than any of us but I would rest him for the rest of the year. He doesn't need to play this year. Its about 2018 and beyond. Even last week it seemed when he got that knock to the face he went down like he was slightly concussed. It isn't a great thing for a young person. If he isn't managed properly he may not have a very long future in the game unfortunately.
 
plugger66 said:
I'm sure the doctors will have more idea than any of us but I would rest him for the rest of the year. He doesn't need to play this year. Its about 2018 and beyond. Even last week it seemed when he got that knock to the face he went down like he was slightly concussed. It isn't a great thing for a young person. If he isn't managed properly he may not have a very long future in the game unfortunately.
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Even if he is managed properly he might not have a long future in the game. Some guys, like Justin Clarke, just can't/shouldn't play AFL.
 
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