While you are out there making mistakes do you reckon you could throw me a bone in the other league with some errors? My injury list is Carlton like.
It is good to see somebody new on top here.
Paul Roos Lg. Paul Roos Cup - Ultimate Footy Dynasty League - 2024 Season Thread
- Thread starter deeman87
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While you are out there making mistakes do you reckon you could throw me a bone in the other league with some errors? My injury list is Carlton like.
It is good to see somebody new on top here.
- Thread starter
- #327
lol. Hey im missing 2 of my best 3 mids vs u. Impossible for me to make a mistake in that league as im playing all 22 fit players there are no choice for me to make there
lol. Hey im missing 2 of my best 3 mids vs u. Impossible for me to make a mistake in that league as im playing all 22 fit players there are no choice for me to make there
Same! The injuries are giving me basically no options week to week.
I’m still down the bottom but thinks are looking alright though.
- Sep 4, 2005
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This confused me all weekend. Did you accidentally hop into a time machine and were viewing our 2027 match up?
- Thread starter
- #330
- Thread starter
- #331
Looks like I have inflicted the first loss of the yr on T&S by a single kick. Troopers still got it...
Damn we got a draw. I wish the Dee's could do that well
…we didn’t draw.
Jack Henry lackluster score has still got to to be added. He has 2 FA that gets that cat to you.
But he also had a whopping 2 HB and 2 Marks that just get me over the line in the all round closest match ever.
I had the same issue last week, where a non player was marked as playing till the round was finalised.
Flaps also has that problem in his draw but I don’t think it will affect his final score.
Edit: it actually does get flaps over the line too by one free kick.
- Thread starter
- #333
The nerve! You ser are stripped of your 1st rd pick, open to trading u it back tho
- Thread starter
- #334
Andddd it looks like i spoke too early as the same thing has happened in this league w the emergencies being added hours after the last game ended and i have now lost and T&S remains undefeated. What an awful day in sports, horrible NBA playoff game 6, worst dees performance in Goodwins time as coach (maybe the eagles prelim was worse but i expected less from them then), at least that i can remember and now to top it off ive gone from a win and a draw in my UF leagues to 2 losses. Sports are dumb, i do not like them and i shall never watch them again, at least until Denver vs minny g7 in the NBA tomoz.
No guarantee I'll be any good then 
This confused me all weekend. Did you accidentally hop into a time machine and were viewing our 2027 match up?
- Thread starter
- #336
You'll be better, the draft works, early picks guarantee good fantasy mids at worst.No guarantee I'll be any good then
- Thread starter
- #337
Getting back to full strength I want a rematch NoPositiveTests!
- Sep 4, 2005
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Jordie_tackles almost got me in the end. GG
Next year
After a few weeks ago thinking my team was on the right track I've just been smashed for weeks on end
Now I feel like fast forwarding to the next draft
Now I feel like fast forwarding to the next draft
- Thread starter
- #341
So i just had a bit of a random thought based upon the other league (BFDL the other uf 9 cat league on bf for those few in here who arent in the league) and was wanting to get some feedback on it. Now let me firstly say any changes to such a huge thing as score structure would need to be 100% voted for and it would need to be at least 1 yr in advance maybe 2. With that said let me just quickly explain where im coming from.
In this league, we have had the same 4 teams that have been top 4 basically every yr for 5 yrs with i think 2 exceptions where flaps got 1 spot 1 yr and nopositivetests got a top 4 spot last yr and he certainly is gonna be a top 4 mainstay for yrs to come. Now there are multiple reasons for this, all 4 of the coaches are all coaches that have been in this league since inception 8 yrs ago and all 4 have worked hard, been active trading and building and certainly deserve their success and weve all got at least 1 premiership. But there is also another reason for why this top 4 is so hard to crack into in this league which is the scoring structure.
When i started the league i based it upon the BFDL structure (they have the same scoring as us but instead of the weighting we have they have every category being equal & worth 1 point) in many ways but i didnt like that umpiring decisions would swing a grand final and have the same affect on the score as accumulation stats or score, like should umpiring which while u can recruit players like say Selwood springs to mind who would constantly be fantastic at being a positive contributor to FF, swing close games more? Should accuracy swing close games more? For the most part u are selecting ur team and ur players because of their overall contribution to the main categories in football (marks, handballs, kicks, tackles scoreboard pts and hitouts (gotta make rucks relevant) and u arent hunting the frees cats though the accuracy stat is more important as bad kicking is bad football etc. So with this in mind i made one change to BFDL rules and i chose to weight the main cats with 2 pts and the frees and accuracy w 1 point. It made sense at the time and im still unsure what is the best scoring structure.
Now the reason im making this post is in the other league, my team has been rebuilding for 5 yrs now, i came in with literally the worst list ive ever seen anyone start with in a keeper league and i tore it down i rebuilt through the draft and i made some bad trades that slowed me down and 5 yrs in i am still no where near competing with the elite teams in accumulation stats w the exception of HO/score. i think i won 2 games in my first 2 or 3 yrs and i havent finished above bottom 4 in my time in that league. However this year, i am missing 2 of my 4 best premium mids, i am still way off in accumulation stats and i have no business being near the top 4 and yet ive beaten last yrs premiers, the competition powerhouse team of the past 6 yrs and now the top of the ladder team purely by being strong in hitouts, having a strong fwd line full of sharp shooters who kick straight and put score on the board (dont think ive lost accuracy all yr) w a strong ruck contingent and some tackling beasts like Rowell etc. and so despite my being like a full 30-40%/6-8 premium players off the best teams in ur normal important cats like kicks, handballs and marks at the midway point in the yr i find myself in 5th, 7-4-1, having i think never won kicks, handballs or marks but just by consistently winning the hitout battle, accuracy and score and then 2 of tackles and FA/FF. That league currently has a lot of parity, more than this league has ever seen and i think any team in the top 8-10 teams could actuallly win it if they got a good run of luck. it is far more open than this league where id say 4-6 teams can prob win it each yr (prob being generous) and that is the case for half a decade+ for a team if managed well.
So what i am getting at in this incredibly long post is that our scoring in this league is emphasising elite accumulation players while de-emphasising frees and accuracy which while it does generally mean the best team wins almost always, it also means the middle table teams and certainly the bottom teams have absolutely no hope of beating the elite teams 4-6 teams. Its just the truth, i can be missing 10 of my best 18 players right now as i have been for most of the yr up until this week and i still have only lost 2 games. There is far less randomness in this league, there is far less parity in this league and it is far far harder for rebuilding teams to catch the good teams though that may be in part also to the fact that theres been a decent amount of coaching turnover with the rebuilding teams over the past 3 yrs and there is far less chance of a true upset like WC beating my dees last week. Even if u win the frees and accuracy and ur a rebuilding or mid table team u just arent beating the elite team hardly ever in the cats that are weighted higher and thus u are gonna lose 12-3 or 11-4.
While i thought this was a good thing for many yrs, just seeing my team full of underdogs who dont have more than 2-3 premium mids healthy all yr, a backline full of 21 and under guys where u wouldnt look at it and think there any premium backs there except 1 maybe 2 and just a rly strong fwd line and ruck line has allowed me to consistently win random cats to the point where its almost no longer random and i am wondering if maybe it isnt more interesting adding that element of unknown, adding that week to week variance, improving the chances of the teams in the 5-10 range of actually making a run in August anand knocking the elite teams off their perch or the bottom 4 teams of beating the mid table teams and thus considering making some changes to the scoring structure to increase league parity, or at least make this post and raise the idea. This can be done a few diff ways, categories can be weighted equally as is the other league, or they can be weighted differently but less extreme, for instance say accumulation stats could count for 3 and the the others count for 2 or some other diff structure altogether like score counts for 4 and accumulation for 3 and hitouts and accuracy for 2 and frees for 1 (i dont actually like this one its an example only)
Lastly i am making this post knowing full well this would be a devastating change for my team that hasnt been out of the top 4 since 2018 or 2019, similarly i dont think zim or drew have been outside the top 4 in that time and maybe TW has for 1 yr but not a lot. Again this will not come into effect for at least 1 yr, this will not come into effect with out a total 100% vote to change this as its as big a change as u get. Sry for the long post, if u read it all ty, if u didnt...
Cliffs - What do coaches think about potentially looking at ways to increase league parity down the line by changing how categories are weighted, of which there are many options and which would of course be discussed in great length if coaches were actually for change. Rule changes would not come into effect for at least a season, possibly 2 as i understand we have built teams with set scoring in place and at a minimum i would want to give every coach a half yr and then an off season to prepare or more likely 2 off seasons to prepare.
Pls let me know ur thoughts or even if u have a better way to increase parity, but actually think this through for the good of the league long term and not whats best for your team here and now as who knows where u will be in 2026 or 2027, for those of you in both leagues think about which scoring u think is better and why, what u would change and why and certainly dont bring myself or UC's leadership into the equation as i understand that does effect enjoyment and frustration a wee bit but that isnt what were talking about here and has 0 baring on this. If this is positively received but there are a few coaches who are against debate nicely, if there is no one for this say so we wont mention it again, if it looks like it is close to maybe being passed again debate and in that case i will put forth a poll with options to remain up until the trade deadline and that will be repeated in the off season...
DISCUSSSSSSSS
In this league, we have had the same 4 teams that have been top 4 basically every yr for 5 yrs with i think 2 exceptions where flaps got 1 spot 1 yr and nopositivetests got a top 4 spot last yr and he certainly is gonna be a top 4 mainstay for yrs to come. Now there are multiple reasons for this, all 4 of the coaches are all coaches that have been in this league since inception 8 yrs ago and all 4 have worked hard, been active trading and building and certainly deserve their success and weve all got at least 1 premiership. But there is also another reason for why this top 4 is so hard to crack into in this league which is the scoring structure.
When i started the league i based it upon the BFDL structure (they have the same scoring as us but instead of the weighting we have they have every category being equal & worth 1 point) in many ways but i didnt like that umpiring decisions would swing a grand final and have the same affect on the score as accumulation stats or score, like should umpiring which while u can recruit players like say Selwood springs to mind who would constantly be fantastic at being a positive contributor to FF, swing close games more? Should accuracy swing close games more? For the most part u are selecting ur team and ur players because of their overall contribution to the main categories in football (marks, handballs, kicks, tackles scoreboard pts and hitouts (gotta make rucks relevant) and u arent hunting the frees cats though the accuracy stat is more important as bad kicking is bad football etc. So with this in mind i made one change to BFDL rules and i chose to weight the main cats with 2 pts and the frees and accuracy w 1 point. It made sense at the time and im still unsure what is the best scoring structure.
Now the reason im making this post is in the other league, my team has been rebuilding for 5 yrs now, i came in with literally the worst list ive ever seen anyone start with in a keeper league and i tore it down i rebuilt through the draft and i made some bad trades that slowed me down and 5 yrs in i am still no where near competing with the elite teams in accumulation stats w the exception of HO/score. i think i won 2 games in my first 2 or 3 yrs and i havent finished above bottom 4 in my time in that league. However this year, i am missing 2 of my 4 best premium mids, i am still way off in accumulation stats and i have no business being near the top 4 and yet ive beaten last yrs premiers, the competition powerhouse team of the past 6 yrs and now the top of the ladder team purely by being strong in hitouts, having a strong fwd line full of sharp shooters who kick straight and put score on the board (dont think ive lost accuracy all yr) w a strong ruck contingent and some tackling beasts like Rowell etc. and so despite my being like a full 30-40%/6-8 premium players off the best teams in ur normal important cats like kicks, handballs and marks at the midway point in the yr i find myself in 5th, 7-4-1, having i think never won kicks, handballs or marks but just by consistently winning the hitout battle, accuracy and score and then 2 of tackles and FA/FF. That league currently has a lot of parity, more than this league has ever seen and i think any team in the top 8-10 teams could actuallly win it if they got a good run of luck. it is far more open than this league where id say 4-6 teams can prob win it each yr (prob being generous) and that is the case for half a decade+ for a team if managed well.
So what i am getting at in this incredibly long post is that our scoring in this league is emphasising elite accumulation players while de-emphasising frees and accuracy which while it does generally mean the best team wins almost always, it also means the middle table teams and certainly the bottom teams have absolutely no hope of beating the elite teams 4-6 teams. Its just the truth, i can be missing 10 of my best 18 players right now as i have been for most of the yr up until this week and i still have only lost 2 games. There is far less randomness in this league, there is far less parity in this league and it is far far harder for rebuilding teams to catch the good teams though that may be in part also to the fact that theres been a decent amount of coaching turnover with the rebuilding teams over the past 3 yrs and there is far less chance of a true upset like WC beating my dees last week. Even if u win the frees and accuracy and ur a rebuilding or mid table team u just arent beating the elite team hardly ever in the cats that are weighted higher and thus u are gonna lose 12-3 or 11-4.
While i thought this was a good thing for many yrs, just seeing my team full of underdogs who dont have more than 2-3 premium mids healthy all yr, a backline full of 21 and under guys where u wouldnt look at it and think there any premium backs there except 1 maybe 2 and just a rly strong fwd line and ruck line has allowed me to consistently win random cats to the point where its almost no longer random and i am wondering if maybe it isnt more interesting adding that element of unknown, adding that week to week variance, improving the chances of the teams in the 5-10 range of actually making a run in August anand knocking the elite teams off their perch or the bottom 4 teams of beating the mid table teams and thus considering making some changes to the scoring structure to increase league parity, or at least make this post and raise the idea. This can be done a few diff ways, categories can be weighted equally as is the other league, or they can be weighted differently but less extreme, for instance say accumulation stats could count for 3 and the the others count for 2 or some other diff structure altogether like score counts for 4 and accumulation for 3 and hitouts and accuracy for 2 and frees for 1 (i dont actually like this one its an example only)
Lastly i am making this post knowing full well this would be a devastating change for my team that hasnt been out of the top 4 since 2018 or 2019, similarly i dont think zim or drew have been outside the top 4 in that time and maybe TW has for 1 yr but not a lot. Again this will not come into effect for at least 1 yr, this will not come into effect with out a total 100% vote to change this as its as big a change as u get. Sry for the long post, if u read it all ty, if u didnt...
Cliffs - What do coaches think about potentially looking at ways to increase league parity down the line by changing how categories are weighted, of which there are many options and which would of course be discussed in great length if coaches were actually for change. Rule changes would not come into effect for at least a season, possibly 2 as i understand we have built teams with set scoring in place and at a minimum i would want to give every coach a half yr and then an off season to prepare or more likely 2 off seasons to prepare.
Pls let me know ur thoughts or even if u have a better way to increase parity, but actually think this through for the good of the league long term and not whats best for your team here and now as who knows where u will be in 2026 or 2027, for those of you in both leagues think about which scoring u think is better and why, what u would change and why and certainly dont bring myself or UC's leadership into the equation as i understand that does effect enjoyment and frustration a wee bit but that isnt what were talking about here and has 0 baring on this. If this is positively received but there are a few coaches who are against debate nicely, if there is no one for this say so we wont mention it again, if it looks like it is close to maybe being passed again debate and in that case i will put forth a poll with options to remain up until the trade deadline and that will be repeated in the off season...
DISCUSSSSSSSS
- Thread starter
- #342
Also WGS mentioned in the other league about captains that is another thing that could come under the review. (maybe)
Im fairly certain this wont actually pass but i just feel like maybe its worth revisiting, we have about half the original coaches left, we dont really have any parity mechanisms in place in any way.
Now with the silliness of the previous post out of the way onto the real news, if this doesnt get passed i will be introducing Academies and coaches can nominate academy players once they hit grade 3 of primary school as i think its important that its a national game and we certainly dont want to disadvantage those in rugby states or those who have kids and are scouting their kids u10 games or who are say teachers and watch harley reid practice dont argues at lunch time in yr 9 in the gym rather than being a kid. After all how can you have an even competition when certain teams receive way more funding than other teams as well as having access to 73% of all young players. A draft should be about equalisation and i just dont think its equal unless one team receives significantly more talent equity than other teams. As such, i am awarding vic metro and vic country to myself, i am awarding SA to Matthew Jelley, im awarding WA to puppy power and Bowski and im awarding ayres rock to zim. 'the rest of the draft is of course open to everyone and this is not up for debate so just debate the previous post please. Oh and ill allocate Irish players to Kirbatron as i feel he needs the most help after losing brayshaw and flaps has access to any players who are currently trapped in flood waters or are swimming in a pool somewhere but who arent in any of the previous zones. Hopefully this simplifies what is a highly complex drafting situation...
P.s if you read this post and thought wtf why is this ****head posting this shit who appointed him commisioner im def not reading his 74 paragraph post after reading this then pls actually do read the previous post as i think its bed time and i may have written about 400 words too many, thats what happens when you get chat gpt to converse with each other and write ur bigfooty posts for you.
Im fairly certain this wont actually pass but i just feel like maybe its worth revisiting, we have about half the original coaches left, we dont really have any parity mechanisms in place in any way.
Now with the silliness of the previous post out of the way onto the real news, if this doesnt get passed i will be introducing Academies and coaches can nominate academy players once they hit grade 3 of primary school as i think its important that its a national game and we certainly dont want to disadvantage those in rugby states or those who have kids and are scouting their kids u10 games or who are say teachers and watch harley reid practice dont argues at lunch time in yr 9 in the gym rather than being a kid. After all how can you have an even competition when certain teams receive way more funding than other teams as well as having access to 73% of all young players. A draft should be about equalisation and i just dont think its equal unless one team receives significantly more talent equity than other teams. As such, i am awarding vic metro and vic country to myself, i am awarding SA to Matthew Jelley, im awarding WA to puppy power and Bowski and im awarding ayres rock to zim. 'the rest of the draft is of course open to everyone and this is not up for debate so just debate the previous post please. Oh and ill allocate Irish players to Kirbatron as i feel he needs the most help after losing brayshaw and flaps has access to any players who are currently trapped in flood waters or are swimming in a pool somewhere but who arent in any of the previous zones. Hopefully this simplifies what is a highly complex drafting situation...
P.s if you read this post and thought wtf why is this ****head posting this shit who appointed him commisioner im def not reading his 74 paragraph post after reading this then pls actually do read the previous post as i think its bed time and i may have written about 400 words too many, thats what happens when you get chat gpt to converse with each other and write ur bigfooty posts for you.
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As much as it frustrates me being down the bottom I'd rather persist and keep working my way up (hopefully) than start winning more games by luck eg: winning through FF, FA, accuracy
Making those categories worth more would make it too much luck based rather than bringing in the right players and building a strong fantasy squad
My only gripe about the scoring is hit outs is a 2 point category and there are such a limited amount of players you can pick up so the turnover takes years to come in to effect
Overall though I would hate to see someone's years of work disrupted and would personally vote for little to no changes
Making those categories worth more would make it too much luck based rather than bringing in the right players and building a strong fantasy squad
My only gripe about the scoring is hit outs is a 2 point category and there are such a limited amount of players you can pick up so the turnover takes years to come in to effect
Overall though I would hate to see someone's years of work disrupted and would personally vote for little to no changes
Some further thoughts/ideas that could assist with equalisation
Not saying I necessarily agree with all of them just throwing out some discussion points as they're things I've seen in other leagues or heard discussed on podcasts
- more minimum delistings at end of year weighted by ladder position eg top 4 drop 5, next 4 drop 4, rest drop 3
- top 4 have 2 less list spots, next 4 1 less
- smaller list overall and/or on field promotes more list movement, for example a decent younger player on bye/injury/suspension could be more likely to get dropped to bring in a playing veteran therefore giving the opportunity for others to pick up
- waivers based on ladder position after mid season byes
Not saying I necessarily agree with all of them just throwing out some discussion points as they're things I've seen in other leagues or heard discussed on podcasts
- Sep 4, 2005
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I will admit I haven't read 100% of that post but get the gist of it.
I vote no change. Only change I'd be open to is Captains even though it can be tactical. Do you go for HO, Goals etc. But with the ability to loop hole you get a crack at taking a gamble so I'm happy to delete that.
As for parity myself and deeman87 in particular have sold the farm to bring in elite 28 year olds. Yes it looks all pretty now. But in 2-3 seasons I'll have a situation where I will lose 10+ relevant players in one hit. And within a year or 2 of that all relevance will be gone. Having sold first rounders for years it will come to bite, and my rebuild will take longer than others. I literally will fall off a cliff.
Also it would be unfair on us if we then can't try trade these guns ourselves for good picks due to these sides no longer really needing those types of players. It will come for those sides just as it has for us in the other league. Yes it took ages, but that's what a dynasty league is.
Bottom side coaches need to continue evolving their list through draft and trades. It will come. Even if they don't draft we'll, they will still have enough young assets to be at the top when we drop.
The side that's 2nd last holds bont and heeney. He has the option of shopping them around. I understand how difficult that is. It's easier said than done mainly because of the sides that need him don't really hold the assets or picks to satisfy a deal. But that's a far better option than drastically changing rules.
I vote no change. Only change I'd be open to is Captains even though it can be tactical. Do you go for HO, Goals etc. But with the ability to loop hole you get a crack at taking a gamble so I'm happy to delete that.
As for parity myself and deeman87 in particular have sold the farm to bring in elite 28 year olds. Yes it looks all pretty now. But in 2-3 seasons I'll have a situation where I will lose 10+ relevant players in one hit. And within a year or 2 of that all relevance will be gone. Having sold first rounders for years it will come to bite, and my rebuild will take longer than others. I literally will fall off a cliff.
Also it would be unfair on us if we then can't try trade these guns ourselves for good picks due to these sides no longer really needing those types of players. It will come for those sides just as it has for us in the other league. Yes it took ages, but that's what a dynasty league is.
Bottom side coaches need to continue evolving their list through draft and trades. It will come. Even if they don't draft we'll, they will still have enough young assets to be at the top when we drop.
The side that's 2nd last holds bont and heeney. He has the option of shopping them around. I understand how difficult that is. It's easier said than done mainly because of the sides that need him don't really hold the assets or picks to satisfy a deal. But that's a far better option than drastically changing rules.
- Sep 4, 2005
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If you can cbf deeman87 ot would be interesting to see how many games you can find where the results swings under just the default scoring.
But in conclusion I don't think getting teams wins because they win FF, FA and % is the way fwd. It's actually the whole reason we weighted the main cats to begin with.
But in conclusion I don't think getting teams wins because they win FF, FA and % is the way fwd. It's actually the whole reason we weighted the main cats to begin with.
I came into the league happy with the rules. But I don’t think deeman is wrong that you can’t win games in this league the same way as the other as the stats just don’t add up to enough even if you win them and lose 3 of kicks, handballs and Marks/Tackles. I think accuracy is the one as it goes hand in hand with scoring. Frees are interesting as things can be done to win them more than not but to do it every week is near impossible.
I really appreciate the amount of thought put into the post (as well as the the intent) but I'm anti-change.
I like that both leagues are unique and while it is a slow march for us lower teams I think once (if) my team becomes genuinely competitive it will be very satisfying.
And to Zims point, I took over a list that had just won a flag but 17 of it's best 22 was over 30 and the average age of the list as a whole was 28 or so, largely footsoldiers to support.
So rather than try and sneak another flag with someone else's list I bit the bullet and blew it all up. The team would have fallen off a cliff eventually. The wheel does turn.
Trading is also super important and is pretty active in this league (at least compared to the majority I have been in) coaches have to get creative to git gud.
Take the Plovers for example, the list has plenty of young jets (that beat my turnips) and they will almost certainly come good under a strong coach in Jordy.
As long as we maintain 14 coaches who give a shit, I'm confident in how the league is trending.
I like that both leagues are unique and while it is a slow march for us lower teams I think once (if) my team becomes genuinely competitive it will be very satisfying.
And to Zims point, I took over a list that had just won a flag but 17 of it's best 22 was over 30 and the average age of the list as a whole was 28 or so, largely footsoldiers to support.
So rather than try and sneak another flag with someone else's list I bit the bullet and blew it all up. The team would have fallen off a cliff eventually. The wheel does turn.
Trading is also super important and is pretty active in this league (at least compared to the majority I have been in) coaches have to get creative to git gud.
Take the Plovers for example, the list has plenty of young jets (that beat my turnips) and they will almost certainly come good under a strong coach in Jordy.
As long as we maintain 14 coaches who give a shit, I'm confident in how the league is trending.
- Thread starter
- #349
All good guys was just a random line of thinking ive been having as i marvel at my wombats continuing to win games against the best teams in the league while never winning the kick/hb/mark stats. Don't think you'd win a game in this league without winning at least 1 of those cats in fact ud have to basically go perfect on the other cats.
It's better for my team to not change things so I'm all good for it not to change and good early drafting is still the equalisation tool its meant to be I just wondered if maybe we shouldn't be trying a bit harder for parity But ye I didn't think we'd get a 14/14 yes vote I just wanted to float it as an idea.
It's better for my team to not change things so I'm all good for it not to change and good early drafting is still the equalisation tool its meant to be I just wondered if maybe we shouldn't be trying a bit harder for parity But ye I didn't think we'd get a 14/14 yes vote I just wanted to float it as an idea.
- Sep 4, 2005
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I've had no trouble winning matches
