Pavlich vs. Goodes

[JCHolmes]

I have posted this before in Goodes vs Judd thread and compared their 2006 years against each other, see below. Goodes didnt have anyone taking votes off him and stood out head and shoulders in the class dept in his team. Goodes was definetley top 5 that year though for impact.

Judds best > Goodes best.
2006 season I think Judd was better than Goodes was. Both champs however, Judd the better one though.

Goodes 2006 = 25 Games, 25 Goals, Tackles 84, Inside 50 115, Contested Mark 29, Avg Disp 20.8, Avg Clearances 3.1, Finals = 3 Games, Avg Goal 1, Avg Clearance 2, Avg Disp 20.5. Only 9 games under 20 touches for the year. 0 games over 30 touches for the year, 3 goals or more in 1 game.

Judds 2006 = 23 Games, 29 Goals, Tackles 112, Inside 50 115, Contested Mark 13, Avg Disp 25.8, Avg Clearances 6.1, Finals = 4 Games, Avg Goal 1, Avg Clearance 8.25, Avg Disp 26.75. Only 2 games under 20 touches for the year, 6 games over 30 touches for the year, 3 goals or more in 6 games.

 

[Sydswans0512]

I have posted this before in Goodes vs Judd thread and compared their 2006 years against each other, see below. Goodes didnt have anyone taking votes off him and stood out head and shoulders in the class dept in his team. Goodes was definetley top 5 that year though for impact.

Judds best > Goodes best.
2006 season I think Judd was better than Goodes was. Both champs however, Judd the better one though.

Goodes 2006 = 25 Games, 25 Goals, Tackles 84, Inside 50 115, Contested Mark 29, Avg Disp 20.8, Avg Clearances 3.1, Finals = 3 Games, Avg Goal 1, Avg Clearance 2, Avg Disp 20.5. Only 9 games under 20 touches for the year. 0 games over 30 touches for the year, 3 goals or more in 1 game.

Judds 2006 = 23 Games, 29 Goals, Tackles 112, Inside 50 115, Contested Mark 13, Avg Disp 25.8, Avg Clearances 6.1, Finals = 4 Games, Avg Goal 1, Avg Clearance 8.25, Avg Disp 26.75. Only 2 games under 20 touches for the year, 6 games over 30 touches for the year, 3 goals or more in 6 games.

Your going to go on stats
Goodes was at $1.70 to win the thing
Goodes didn't have anyone taking votes off him? We lost the Grand final by a point does that mean he carried the team?

 

[Sydswans0512]

So Judd doesn't deserve his 2010 Brownlow then because apparently another midfielder had a better year by stats

 

[eaglespremiers]

So Judd doesn't deserve his 2010 Brownlow then because apparently another midfielder had a better year by stats

Not "doesn't deserve". But there were certainly others better in 2010.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Goodes was the hot favourite

Completely irrelevant argument.

 

[Sydswans0512]

Seriously saying that someone doesn't deserve there brownlow medal is a crock of shit!

 

[JCHolmes]

Your going to go on stats
Goodes was at $1.70 to win the thing
Goodes didn't have anyone taking votes off him? We lost the Grand final by a point does that mean he carried the team?

I did go on stats yes, they tell part of the story, absolutley not the full story though. Your going on betting markets? I suppose it is a subjective thing. I also watched a **** load of football that year and said Goodes was def in top five players and your most important player as your midfield lacked class imo. Your next best in the Brownlow was Kirk with 9 votes, I mean no one really stood out esp from the mid which as we know dominates the Brownlow. I also didnt say nor imply Goodes carried his team, you did, and if your thinking he carried the team and thats why you lost then good luck to you sir. He kicked a ripper goal in that GF though.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Personally I thought Judd was the standout player of 2006 but I think it was just one of those years where Goodes' best games happened to have less competition for big votes than Judd's did. I think it was also around the time people like myself really got into Brownlow predicting and realised that Goodes looked likely to poll a heap, which explains his short odds. He obviously had a fantastic year though.

Judd got his back though, when he won in 2010, a year in which I thought Ablett and Swan were comfortably ahead.

 

[JCHolmes]

Of course Goodes deserved his Brownlow! I can see how people are implying he didnt, which as you said is a crock of shit. I would say that the Brownlow is generally a juggle between the top ten players that year (subjective obviously) and they get it right all most every year.

 

[eaglespremiers]

He kicked a ripper goal in that GF though.

After being completely absent the first half mind you.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Of course Goodes deserved his Brownlow! I can see how people are implying he didnt, which as you said is a crock of shit. I would say that the Brownlow is generally a juggle between the top ten players that year (subjective obviously) and they get it right all most every year.

Exactly. It's the best player in the umpires' eyes; a very subjective award. Very rarely does someone who hasn't had an excellent year manage to poll enough votes.

 

[JCHolmes]

Exactly. It's the best player in the umpires' eyes; a very subjective award. Very rarely does someone who hasn't had an excellent year manage to poll enough votes.

Took the words right out of my... keyboard! Its usually the top 2 players from each club maybe 10-12 clubs that win it.
I love me some Goodes and the fact hes playing on into his 30s endears him to me even more. Old dudes playing AFL level football is just the dopest mayn.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Seriously saying that someone doesn't deserve there brownlow medal is a crock of shit!

I didn't say "doesn't deserve".

 

[Sydswans0512]

I didn't say "doesn't deserve".

Well your contradicting yourself, to say that somebody else had a better season means the other person wasn't deserving right?

 

[eaglespremiers]

Well your contradicting yourself, to say that somebody else had a better season means the other person wasn't deserving right?

As pointed out by someone else above anyone who is in the top 5-7 players each year I believe adequately falls in the "deserve" category.
By simply pointing out one person who IMO had a better year than Goodes in 2006 doesn't mean I begrudge him his medal that year.
Ablett should've won the Brownlow in 2008, Kouta in 2000 etc.... (actually perhaps we can begrudge Woewodin his medal).
It was timtamWB who used the phrase "doesn't deserve" and he was saying it in regards to what other people may have been saying.

 

[Sydswans0512]

As pointed out by someone else above anyone who is in the top 5-7 players each year I believe adequately falls in the "deserve" category.
By simply pointing out one person who IMO had a better year than Goodes in 2006 doesn't mean I begrudge him his medal that year.
Ablett should've won the Brownlow in 2008, Kouta in 2000 etc.... (actually perhaps we can begrudge Woewodin his medal).
It was timtamWB who used the phrase "doesn't deserve" and he was saying it in regards to what other people may have been saying.

If all the money was on Goodes to win it then I'd say more thought he was the best player

 

[eaglespremiers]

If all the money was on Goodes to win it then I'd say more thought he was the best player

No, simply more betting agencies thought he'd win the award.
Judd was favourite in 2011 and didn't win. He was probably somewhere in the top 5 that year.
Swan was 8-10 IMO but won it.
Simply being the money choice does not contribute to who thought he was the better player and if it did it would only be the opinions of the betting agencies as informed by the money flow.

 

[JCHolmes]

Simply put more people thought he was going to win yes thats right it was the smart bet, but your not going to back Judd as the eagles had more than one standout in the midfield, all proven vote getters too (The year before, Kerr finished sole runner up to Cousins, and the year before that Judd won it), even though in most people eyes that was Judd's absolute best year. Our next best player was Ben Cousins/Daniel Kerr that year, you didnt have one let alone two midfielders in that class bracket behind/on level with Goodes and mids have taken it home every year since the mid nineties. Back to the Goodes Pavlich debate I am surprised Pav has as many votes as he does, i expected most people to say Goodes over Pavlich even though I voted Pavlich. Goodes will be considered the greatest indigenous player ever, and will be mentioned in the top players of the last 25 years, deservedly so.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Both champs but would have to lean towards Goodes - more versatile.

 

[masai]

Goodes will be considered the greatest indigenous player ever,

No.

He is a very good player, but he will never take that title off a player already in the Legend ranks.

 

[JCHolmes]

No.

He is a very good player, but he will never take that title off a player already in the Legend ranks.

The word considered (that I used) meaning think about it before coming to a decision, certainly not set in stone. Are your reffering to Polly?

 

[JCHolmes]

If you are reffering to Polly its certainly not beyond questioning. No one has watched all 100+ years of aussie rules in its entirety and people who put him so high up theres no oxygen are sentimental idiots. My Grandfather watched him in person and said he deserved his Legend status and to a lesser extent a tunnel named after him. I will ask him about Polly next time I see him, but he certainly hasnt seen much of Adam Goodes or any footy over the last 15 years so it would be hard for him to judge.

 

[matt_bas]

Both great leaders, both legends of the game, both have gathered a lot of honours and awards. I can't split them, it's a draw.

+1

 

[MF]

Most years there's a handful of players who'd all be pretty deserving.

Sometimes the winner is the worst of a good bunch, sometimes they're the best. That's the way it will always be due to the nature of the voting system.

The fact is though when you string together a decade of brilliant performances like both Goodes and Judd have you put yourself in a position to win a brownlow or 2 regardless of whether you were the best player in that particular season.

 

[willoblue]

for my vote I went for Goodes as I think he has been a slightly better player, but I reckon Pav has him covered as a leader, with both being excellent on & off the field.
2 champs