Perth Stadium (Optus Stadium)

[freo bhoy]

the waiting list is purely a result of a supply/demand issue. Limited supply means that your ageing membership ticket holders hang on for dear life because they wouldn't get to see any games live if they gave up their seat.
so there is waiting list as a result.

with ten thousand general admission tickets available each game those same members will have no need to hold onto their expensive memberships and they will fail to renew...these will then be available to the waiting list members but the limit is 50000 members so there wil always be ten thousand available each week....which will mean supply will be greater than demand.

will take a couple of years to sort itself out as people who only go to a few games a year may take some time to realise that they no longer need to hoard that membership to see a game.

Also, both the eagles and the dockers desperately tried to get the government to cap the seating at 50000 to limit supply so the ticket prices could remain as high as they currently are. Yes I was in a position to know this to be fact.

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the 60,000 stadium capacity includes corporates. Domain holds roughly 3000 corporates included in its 43,500 capacity, I highly doubt the new stadium is going to have less corporate space that Domain holds, so I'd estimate there will be at least 5000 corporates, leaving roughly 55,000 general public. If west coast want 50,000 season ticket holders then there is no way there will be 10,000 GA tickets left over.

 

[jatz14]

You guys averaged ~35k in 2010 when you were roughly as bad as us. That's actually pretty good but still a far cry from packing a 60k stadium every week, especially the game where you drew 27k

My point is that if either team is in the bottom 4 or even bottom 8 then the capacity won't be an issue. We'll be fine for decades to come with 60k imo. The first year or two will be trickiest to get tickets I reckon, similar to what we've seen with AO, before a steady drop off.

It doesn't follow that a crowd of 35k or less at Subi would therefore get that many at the new stadium. Members deciding not to go frequently do not make their tickets available, so there can be spare seats, and it can be hard to get ga tickets.

Would have got more than that at the new stadium.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Rob]

the waiting list is purely a result of a supply/demand issue. Limited supply means that your ageing membership ticket holders hang on for dear life because they wouldn't get to see any games live if they gave up their seat.
so there is waiting list as a result.

with ten thousand general admission tickets available each game those same members will have no need to hold onto their expensive memberships and they will fail to renew...these will then be available to the waiting list members but the limit is 50000 members so there wil always be ten thousand available each week....which will mean supply will be greater than demand.

will take a couple of years to sort itself out as people who only go to a few games a year may take some time to realise that they no longer need to hoard that membership to see a game.

Also, both the eagles and the dockers desperately tried to get the government to cap the seating at 50000 to limit supply so the ticket prices could remain as high as they currently are. Yes I was in a position to know this to be fact.

The problem with your theory is that, if it were true, you'd see masses of empty seats every week. If a heap of West Coast members were only renewing just to be able to go to a few games then you'd see 25,000 at many games, with all these members not showing up half the season. They're not - they're actually showing up, indicating that they are renewing because they actually want to go to games.

The non turnup rate is much higher in Melbourne where there is virtually unlimited stadium capacity. Also another reason why your theory breaks down - Melbourne clubs would have far lower memberships because they can buy a seat every week.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The problem with your theory is that, if it were true, you'd see masses of empty seats every week. If a heap of West Coast members were only renewing just to be able to go to a few games then you'd see 25,000 at many games, with all these members not showing up half the season. They're not - they're actually showing up, indicating that they are renewing because they actually want to go to games.

The non turnup rate is much higher in Melbourne where there is virtually unlimited stadium capacity. Also another reason why your theory breaks down - Melbourne clubs would have far lower memberships because they can buy a seat every week.

You are wrong on a few elements here

1) the mcc (not sure on etihad) have refused to increase the amount of club based reserved seating in the past (def with Richmond), as they earn more money selling these seats themselves. So you cant assume all the ga section is even available for clubs to fully book. As such, empty spaces in those areas may not necessarily be member zones but public reserved seating available for purchase.

2) outside blockbuster games, these seats arent usually in big demand because people are happy to just go to the ga area and save coin.

3) the afl and mcc sections are nearly half the g. Its not uncommon to see the public/member bays chockers, and sfa in the afl and mcc.

 

[JohnZ]

You are wrong on a few elements here
3) the afl and mcc sections are nearly half the g. Its not uncommon to see the public/member bays chockers, and sfa in the afl and mcc.

No different to Etihad where getting a seat on the top deck is a pita, but the middle ring has empty seats everywhere ($100+ reserved seats and Medallion club).

 

[Kwality]

Fwiw at the g with Richmond games, the mcc earns more selling a reserved seat to a ga punter than it earns selling the reserved seat to the club.

Remember the premium on club membership reserved seat pricing stays with the clubs, not the stadium

cheers - don't know if what is planned for Perth is even finalised - my point was that if Mr Mac wants to minimise the operating losses on the new facility, he would allocate more seats to the Eagles (not sure of where Freo stands) and cut back on GA, given the Eagles will sell all the tickets they are allocated.

 

[Tazmania]

The problem with your theory is that, if it were true, you'd see masses of empty seats every week. If a heap of West Coast members were only renewing just to be able to go to a few games then you'd see 25,000 at many games, with all these members not showing up half the season. They're not - they're actually showing up, indicating that they are renewing because they actually want to go to games.

The non turnup rate is much higher in Melbourne where there is virtually unlimited stadium capacity. Also another reason why your theory breaks down - Melbourne clubs would have far lower memberships because they can buy a seat every week.

yes but those members also give their tickets to family and friends so the seats get used. They won't have to soon as friend and family wanting seats will be able to get them...this is why the eagles and freo were against 10k ga tickets being available.

and this year the eagles games have been 37000 and 38000 respectively so there were thousands of empty seats.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

yes but those members also give their tickets to family and friends so the seats get used. They won't have to soon as friend and family wanting seats will be able to get them...this is why the eagles and freo were against 10k ga tickets being available.

and this year the eagles games have been 37000 and 38000 respectively so there were thousands of empty seats.

Again flawed logic. Those crowd figures for eagles games are reflective of stadium size not demand.
We actually don't know how many people on average would attend an Eagles game if they could. It's been a 'closed' stadium for several years.

The fact that the waiting list has increased significantly in the last 2 years ( presumably in anticipation for the new stadium) would suggest demand for membership will be high. After the 'adjustment' period I would not be surprised if membership numbers (Eagles) will be at maximum and average crowd figures to around 50k. Just my opinion.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Again flawed logic. Those crowd figures for eagles games are reflective of stadium size not demand.
We actually don't know how many people on average would attend an Eagles game if they could. It's been a 'closed' stadium for several years.

The fact that the waiting list has increased significantly in the last 2 years ( presumably in anticipation for the new stadium) would suggest demand for membership will be high. After the 'adjustment' period I would not be surprised if membership numbers (Eagles) will be at maximum and average crowd figures to around 50k. Just my opinion.

Which is why we're getting a 60k stadium instead of a 70k stadium. Those extra 10,000 seats would put downward pressure on demand for memberships, while the 60k stadium is a little beyond current demand for memberships.

People have to remember a lot of people simply don't even try for memberships because of the waiting list length. If i didn't sign up in 2008, i doubt i would have tried in 2011 or 2012.

 

[BartBart]

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the 60,000 stadium capacity includes corporates. Domain holds roughly 3000 corporates included in its 43,500 capacity, I highly doubt the new stadium is going to have less corporate space that Domain holds, so I'd estimate there will be at least 5000 corporates, leaving roughly 55,000 general public. If west coast want 50,000 season ticket holders then there is no way there will be 10,000 GA tickets left over.

The (admittedly dated) figures I have access to: 52k for members & GA.
The other 8k are corporates, etc.

 

[Rob]

You are wrong on a few elements here

1) the mcc (not sure on etihad) have refused to increase the amount of club based reserved seating in the past (def with Richmond), as they earn more money selling these seats themselves. So you cant assume all the ga section is even available for clubs to fully book. As such, empty spaces in those areas may not necessarily be member zones but public reserved seating available for purchase.

2) outside blockbuster games, these seats arent usually in big demand because people are happy to just go to the ga area and save coin.

3) the afl and mcc sections are nearly half the g. Its not uncommon to see the public/member bays chockers, and sfa in the afl and mcc.

My point was that Victorian member numbers are huge yet anyone can walk up and get a ticket for virtually any game all year.

The Richmond v Melbourne game for instance still has plenty of tickets available for the public, and i'd be astounded if there were more than 2 or 3 games at the MCG all year that anyone couldn't rock up with a few mates on matchday and get a few seats in a row at the gate.

 

[Rob]

yes but those members also give their tickets to family and friends so the seats get used. They won't have to soon as friend and family wanting seats will be able to get them...this is why the eagles and freo were against 10k ga tickets being available.

and this year the eagles games have been 37000 and 38000 respectively so there were thousands of empty seats.

Yeah, a 90% or so turnup rate. So on average members are going to 9 or 10 of the 11 home games a year. Given a membership costs about what 7 single tickets cost, even from an economic perspective it's likely these people will continue to fork out for a membership. Never mind the inconvenience of having to buy single tickets and the likelihood that your single tickets are going to be much worse seats. Whatever the number available to the public (and I doubt it's going to be 10,000), it's likely that those seats are going to be close to the worst seats in the house.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

My point was that Victorian member numbers are huge yet anyone can walk up and get a ticket for virtually any game all year.

The Richmond v Melbourne game for instance still has plenty of tickets available for the public, and i'd be astounded if there were more than 2 or 3 games at the MCG all year that anyone couldn't rock up with a few mates on matchday and get a few seats in a row at the gate.

Because the mcc refuses to give clubs access to all the ga areas for reserved seating (or members only bays)

Remember most members only get access to public access general admin - same areas as all cash paying walk ups

If the mcc gave control of all non-mcc/afl areas to the clubs, I think this would change for several clubs to a scenario closer to what you have in the west

 

[TY24]

I joined the waiting list for a seated membership at West Coast this season, I'll just be happy if I get one before I turn 30 personally (currently 18).

 

[Admiral Byng]

I reckon there is going to be a big turnover of members between the old and new stadium, especially for West Coast. I know of families that bought memberships years ago that renew every year because they dare not give it up. They don't go to many games and share it around with the extended family. There will be a lot of these that won't renew, or will go for a reduced membership (3 - 7 games or whatever package they come up with) .

As well as a flood of new people wanting a membership at the new stadium.

I think a big turnover will happen.

 

[wedgetail]

I joined the waiting list for a seated membership at West Coast this season, I'll just be happy if I get one before I turn 30 personally (currently 18).

Im a 27 year member in a decent block of seats with friends and family. We are intending to expand our 'block' to 12 at the new stadium. These seats are and will remain heirlooms. I know another group in a nearby block who intend to do similar and hopefully our groups will be adjacent although at this stage the largest groupings they will contemplate is 12.

Then there are how many tens of thousands in the wings? What number did you get? You would be praying that they dont all take up their options but realistically... once they are done and if there are any left, the average guy who cant be bothered with the 10 year wait gets a chance at a membership....


At least you will move 10,000ish closer to the front of the queue and may get a seat (up the back) within a few years at current churn rates. Dont let it slip up by not renewing your wings... once people see that it is down to a semi realistic waiting period that will fill back up too.

All this is exactly why WC only asked for 60k capacity at the steering committee. They know exactly where thier demand point is and will never let supply exceed demand to the point where it degrades thier ability to charge like wounded bulls.

I will wager anyone who wants that we will be sold out and still have a wait list once everything settles and very little will change.

 

[TY24]

Im a 27 year member in a decent block of seats with friends and family. We are intending to expand our 'block' to 12 at the new stadium. These seats are and will remain heirlooms. I know another group in a nearby block who intend to do similar and hopefully our groups will be adjacent although at this stage the largest groupings they will contemplate is 12.

Then there are how many tens of thousands in the wings? What number did you get? You would be praying that they dont all take up their options but realistically... once they are done and if there are any left, the average guy who cant be bothered with the 10 year wait gets a chance at a membership....


At least you will move 10,000ish closer to the front of the queue and may get a seat (up the back) within a few years at current churn rates. Dont let it slip up by not renewing your wings... once people see that it is down to a semi realistic waiting period that will fill back up too.

All this is exactly why WC only asked for 60k capacity at the steering committee. They know exactly where thier demand point is and will never let supply exceed demand to the point where it degrades thier ability to charge like wounded bulls.

I will wager anyone who wants that we will be sold out and still have a wait list once everything settles and very little will change.

I'm In The Wings and was asked how many seats I'll be needing at the start of the year (only took the one). I'll just have to try and scoop up some GA tickets for the next decade I guess.

 

[TY24]

I'm In The Wings and was asked how many seats I'll be needing at the start of the year (only took the one). I'll just have to try and scoop up some GA tickets for the next decade I guess.

And as for being sold out, I don't doubt that for as long we as are a remotely competitive side, there will be 50-60k people at that stadium for every West Coast home game for years to come.

Half the reason people choose to stay home from WC home games at the moment is the shithole we currently play at. Shit stadium, shit location, nightmare to get to.

 

[W.C. Fry]

Im a 27 year member in a decent block of seats with friends and family. We are intending to expand our 'block' to 12 at the new stadium. These seats are and will remain heirlooms. I know another group in a nearby block who intend to do similar and hopefully our groups will be adjacent although at this stage the largest groupings they will contemplate is 12.

Then there are how many tens of thousands in the wings? What number did you get? You would be praying that they dont all take up their options but realistically... once they are done and if there are any left, the average guy who cant be bothered with the 10 year wait gets a chance at a membership....


At least you will move 10,000ish closer to the front of the queue and may get a seat (up the back) within a few years at current churn rates. Dont let it slip up by not renewing your wings... once people see that it is down to a semi realistic waiting period that will fill back up too.

All this is exactly why WC only asked for 60k capacity at the steering committee. They know exactly where thier demand point is and will never let supply exceed demand to the point where it degrades thier ability to charge like wounded bulls.

I will wager anyone who wants that we will be sold out and still have a wait list once everything settles and very little will change.

Yeah 16 year member here. Myself and a mate sit together. 2 other friends became members later on and one sits in the row directly behind us and one in the row directly in front of us - thats the best they could get. Then other friends have seats scattered around the ground. We have put in together for the new stadium to have all 12 seats together. Will be great when that happens and just another reason why we are all looking forward to the new stadium.

I really doubt the turnover will be great. Everyone that is a member that I have spoken to are all excited about the new stadium, can't wait to be watching footy in it. Totally agree we will still have a waiting list. Only thing that could cause a major drop off is if cost of membership skyrockets too much.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

You guys averaged ~35k in 2010 when you were roughly as bad as us. That's actually pretty good but still a far cry from packing a 60k stadium every week, especially the game where you drew 27k

My point is that if either team is in the bottom 4 or even bottom 8 then the capacity won't be an issue. We'll be fine for decades to come with 60k imo. The first year or two will be trickiest to get tickets I reckon, similar to what we've seen with AO, before a steady drop off.

lol

The 35k average is a result of stadium size not demand. Comparing both teams based on average attendance is simplistic to say the least
People who are not members still cant go even if only 30k turn up to each game. The fact the Eagles have 20k on the waiting list suggests membership demand will be high.

If there is one club who should be worried about memberships and crowd average it will be freo.

 

[Kwality]

I reckon there is going to be a big turnover of members between the old and new stadium, especially for West Coast. I know of families that bought memberships years ago that renew every year because they dare not give it up. They don't go to many games and share it around with the extended family. There will be a lot of these that won't renew, or will go for a reduced membership (3 - 7 games or whatever package they come up with) .

As well as a flood of new people wanting a membership at the new stadium.

I think a big turnover will happen.

There will be a lot of these that won't renew .... why would they renew at Subi but not the new stadium?

Preferential treatment for Finals will be a consideration, 11 game members preferred not the 3 game style ?

 

[Kwality]

lol

The 35k average is a result of stadium size not demand. Comparing both teams based on average attendance is simplistic to say the least
People who are not members still cant go even if only 30k turn up to each game. The fact the Eagles have 20k on the waiting list suggests membership demand will be high.

If there is one club who should be worried about memberships and crowd average it will be freo.

& why what suits the Eagles differs from Freo - the end of the one deal covering both clubs?

 

[Kwality]

And as for being sold out, I don't doubt that for as long we as are a remotely competitive side, there will be 50-60k people at that stadium for every West Coast home game for years to come.

Half the reason people choose to stay home from WC home games at the moment is the shithole we currently play at. Shit stadium, shit location, nightmare to get to.

Bit of a sook, surely Mum will drop you off .... AFL footy is the attraction not the stadium princess !!!

 

[RedV3x]

Half the reason people choose to stay home from WC home games at the moment is the shithole we currently play at. Shit stadium, shit location, nightmare to get to.

Subiaco stadium is certainly a compromised stadium on what it could have been with a little land purchase to the north.
Subiaco is great location w.r.t. entertainment and food etc.
Subiaco is given over to train access just like Burswood so no nett difference there.
Probably more parking around Subiaco but Burswood is designed for high train traffic.

I've never known Subiaco to be a deterrent but people will appreciate the new stadium (depending on costing).

 

[YOTC]

Subiaco stadium is certainly a compromised stadium on what it could have been with a little land purchase to the north.
Subiaco is great location w.r.t. entertainment and food etc.
Subiaco is given over to train access just like Burswood so no nett difference there.
Probably more parking around Subiaco but Burswood is designed for high train traffic.

I've never known Subiaco to be a deterrent but people will appreciate the new stadium (depending on costing).

What.. I personally don't go to footy games over here anymore because of Subi.