Peter Gordon explores Swiss appeal and injunction on suspension

[Strapping Young Lad]

Balme: "they're not very trustworthy I reckon" in reference to CAS. Thanks for that mate

Did he really say that?

I haven't read his comments yet.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-01-22/balme-blasts-wada-calls-for-afl-to-break-away

Nothing short of ignorant crap.

Not sure if this is Neil Balme or actually Titus O'Reilly.

 

[imperial_oz]

Not sure if this is Neil Balme or actually Titus O'Reilly.

Titus would make more sense....and be funnier

 

[sonnywalters]

You'd have to think it's a heck of a long shot, but that decision needs examination so let's hope it gets up.

Some strong points made

Do you think Spigelman got it wrong? Do you have any idea who he is?
Do you know EFC nominated him? Do you know he is a Supreme Crt judge? Do you know the esteem he is held in?

Lets see Stewart Crameri's 'appeal'

Crt: So Mr Crameri, i understand you get paid 350 k per year is that correct?
Stewie: Yes
Crt: And you receive education from ASADA and the AFLPA on peds every year. IS that right?
Stewie: Yes.
Crt: your honour let me submit the materials as well as times and dates that Mr crameri received this education.
Crt: And you have your own manager? Access to the AFLPA ?
Stewie: Err yeah...
Crt: What does your mother do Mr Crameri?
Stewie: Errr
Crt: So shes not a Dr?
Stewie: No.
Crt: But you took her advice on peds?
Stewie: Err yeah...
Crt: No further questions.
Judge: Shakes head. Case closed. Appeal denied after 5 minutes.

 

[MagpieJo]

Lol!

Creative an yeah I reckon your right!

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Balme: "they're not very trustworthy I reckon" in reference to CAS. Thanks for that mate

I'm embarrassed as a member of the Collingwood Football Club

 

[Sloth]

Because it hasn't gone on long enough.... I'm sure the lawyers could drag it out a few more years if they really tried.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm embarrassed as a member of the Collingwood Football Club

It's no slight on Collingwood, but Balme should be embarrassed by his comments.

 

[Marvel]

Oh Balmey, better to say nothing if you know nothing about CAS.

 

[melbournemartin]

And here I was thinking that moving here I'd be devoid of live AFL since moving here...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Because it hasn't gone on long enough.... I'm sure the lawyers could drag it out a few more years if they really tried.

Until the Bombers whittle down the 34 to the current 12, to eventually nil players on their list. By 2017 there may only be 7 or 8 left so tactically an appeal is worth thinking about. But they wont win and at some stage they have to start to consider winning back some goodwill.

 

[good4footy]

I'm embarrassed as a member of the Collingwood Football Club

We have had two players banned for two years- no bloody wonder if one of the senior people at the club is so ignorant and suspicious about the code

I can't get around my head about how stupid he is on this issue and yet he is a great operator- his time at Geelong being a case in point. I can't help but think that someone as astute as he within organisations must be helping with an agenda. Hopefully not an agenda my club has anything to do with.

 

[Satan]

I'm embarrassed as a member of the Collingwood Football Club

He cant operate a fax machine so why are you surprised

 

[citizen-erased]

re: Appeal
While it wasn't the most watertight finding, it's hard to argue that the players weren't given TB4. Science is science, and if the injection regime matched that of TB4, you have to assume thats what it was.
Whether they were aware of it or not i can't tell. It still looks to me like they placed a lot of faith in the club to do the right thing (as they do with their diets, training loads, etc) and it bit them in the end.
If they were to lodge an appeal, i would hope they wouldn't seek an injunction on the suspensions and prolong this.
1-They'll just end up playing with the cloud over their head. That worked wonders last year
2-If it fails, it starts again and carries into 2017. 2016 has to be the last of this saga
3-If they win, and the season is still running, there is no harm in them returning to their teams late. Port could get a boost from their #1 ruckman. Doggies get a forward back. Dons get their senior players back.

re: AFL under WADA
As per the finding, i can see Balme's point. ASADA focused on the group of 34. If 1 player could be proven guilty, all go down.
Where i am the most baffled is why there was one outcome and not 34 individual ones.
I like the idea of an AFL or even Australian anti-doping code/body. Tailored to individuals and teams in a team sport environment.

Question is - if the commission meets and decides the AFL will abandon WADA (given they were reluctant signatories in the first place), what happens to the suspension of the 34.
If the ban is void if the AFL drops the code and implements its own, is that an enticement for the commission to do it?

 

[speedytiger]

It's no slight on Collingwood, but Balme should be embarrassed by his comments.

It is a slight on Collingwood. He is in a very senior position and should have some idea of this system. For him to have these views is very worrying, how can we expect the players to buy in to the code when guys like Balme have attitudes like that?

 

[Kwality]

I'm no legal eagle, but is it usual in the legal world to not use the ample time provided to submit objections/clarifications to any part of the procedure pre-trial and then complain about being too stupid to consider thise things after the verdict goes against you? Is that grounds for appeal?

How can the players agree to everything and then try to appeal afterwards using those very things they agreed to as foundation? I guess they have precedent considering they tried to change the "strands in the cable" argument mid-trial when they knew they were losing?

I'm no legal eagle either but I usually can see spin when its designed to pull on the heartstrings of the fans, in this case Bulldogs fans - Gordon is looking for someone to fund an appeal, pure & simple - be easy to find a legal eagle to put a case.
The players are paying for their foolish decisions along the way & being wedded to the leadership of Hird & Watson.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

He cant operate a fax machine so why are you surprised

In general terms Balme is very good at his job, so how he came up with his views on WADA/CAS is astounding, particularly as he went through all this with Keeffe and Thomas.
Pert is one of the best operators in the AFL and he is very pro-active in speaking out on all types of drugs in footy, so I suspect Balme will get "Hey Balmey, Perty here, mate can you drop by my office on Monday, we need to 'discuss' a few things"

 

[Kwality]

Please describe:

a) how the players could have cooperated more fully 3 years ago

b) how cooperating would have ensured that WADA didn't appeal to CAS

See Cronulla where its been over for a while & compare Paul Gallen with Saint Jobe, leadership qualities there for Essendon supporters to see.

 

[crowsup]

How come so many people don't understand why it was judged that all 34 players were guilty?
They were "one in, all in" in court because they believed that if one could not be found guilty, they would all get away with it. And Because there might have been doubts they all got injected, they would all get found not guilty. So, they decide to go all in as one but now they complain that they did not get judged individually! Some hypocrisy! Why didn't the ones that did not get injected with tymosin go to court and tell his story?

 

[Satan]

In general terms Balme is very good at his job, so how he came up with his views on WADA/CAS is astounding, particularly as he went through all this with Keeffe and Thomas.
Pert is one of the best operators in the AFL and he is very pro-active in speaking out on all types of drugs in footy, so I suspect Balme will get "Hey Balmey, Perty here, mate can you drop by my office on Monday, we need to 'discuss' a few things"

Still waiting for real Crisp story to come out

 

[Kwality]

Balme: "they're not very trustworthy I reckon" in reference to CAS. Thanks for that mate

Reflects Balmes experience since he debuted for Subi in 1968 & particularly the current game & the AFL regime. Not sure he's right about CAS, but the AFL, he's spot on.

 

[Jimthegreat]

re: Appeal
While it wasn't the most watertight finding, it's hard to argue that the players weren't given TB4. Science is science, and if the injection regime matched that of TB4, you have to assume thats what it was.
Whether they were aware of it or not i can't tell. It still looks to me like they placed a lot of faith in the club to do the right thing (as they do with their diets, training loads, etc) and it bit them in the end.
If they were to lodge an appeal, i would hope they wouldn't seek an injunction on the suspensions and prolong this.
1-They'll just end up playing with the cloud over their head. That worked wonders last year
2-If it fails, it starts again and carries into 2017. 2016 has to be the last of this saga
3-If they win, and the season is still running, there is no harm in them returning to their teams late. Port could get a boost from their #1 ruckman. Doggies get a forward back. Dons get their senior players back.

re: AFL under WADA
As per the finding, i can see Balme's point. ASADA focused on the group of 34. If 1 player could be proven guilty, all go down.
Where i am the most baffled is why there was one outcome and not 34 individual ones.
I like the idea of an AFL or even Australian anti-doping code/body. Tailored to individuals and teams in a team sport environment.

Question is - if the commission meets and decides the AFL will abandon WADA (given they were reluctant signatories in the first place), what happens to the suspension of the 34.
If the ban is void if the AFL drops the code and implements its own, is that an enticement for the commission to do it?

They decided to go in as a group so were penalised as a group. Imagine that's the reasoning behind it given tehre we no objections beforehand. Guessing they had the choice.

 

[rocket18]

Surprised he didn't mention Talia in his long list of whine.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

In general terms Balme is very good at his job, so how he came up with his views on WADA/CAS is astounding, particularly as he went through all this with Keeffe and Thomas.
Pert is one of the best operators in the AFL and he is very pro-active in speaking out on all types of drugs in footy, so I suspect Balme will get "Hey Balmey, Perty here, mate can you drop by my office on Monday, we need to 'discuss' a few things"

I'm a fan of Balmey and love hearing his views, but I heard him on SEN yesterday and he clearly had no idea whatsoever about CAS and why the AFL is obligated to the WADA code. I found this remarkable for a person in his position. It left me wondering how many other people in football are in the same boat.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I'm a fan of Balmey and love hearing his views, but I heard him on SEN yesterday and he clearly had no idea whatsoever about CAS and why the AFL is obligated to the WADA code. I found this remarkable for a person in his position. It left me wondering how many other people in football are in the same boat.

This ^
It can't be just Balme who has this view, there must be many more senior club officials who are similarly ignorant
Didn't a recent CEO of a club have to have the Code explained to him?