Peter Matera or Chris Judd?

[biggiemediums]

Okay let's forget for a minute that your reasoning actually included, and I quote "Judd wasn't even the best player in his team. Cousins and Kerr were both better. And Murphy is better at Carlton". And instead, we'll pretend that's what you were really talking about. So why now is the guy widely renowned as the best player in the league in his time with the Eagles not as good as Daniel Kerr? How did he win his B&F if he wasn't at any stage the best player in his side? How did he ever land an AFLPA MVP?



My God! Do you really need to ask? You said Matera was amazing. Well Judd was amazing too. You said Judd wasn't even the best on his team. Matera wasn't the best on his team either. So this is just an up-talk down-talk routine. Say a good thing about one player and a bad thing about another player and feign it as a legitimate comparison despite both things being potentially true for each player.

Dude, you are taking this site way too seriously. I said my opinion, and I stick to it because that's my freaking opinion. No Up-down routine, no shenanigans, I believe something that you don't. My opinion may be wrong, but it's my opinion.

 

[The Octopus]

Judd obviously, but as if he'd win a poll here.

 

[Monkey King]

Dude, you are taking this site way too seriously.

LOL. All I'm doing is testing your opinion out mate. Anyone can say and think anything, so just because it's your freaking opinion, doesn't mean squat. You chose to drop it in a public forum and now someone's questioned its validity. So you can stick to your opinion if you really believe in it, but bitching that you aren't allowed to have an unquestionable opinion makes me think you don't have much to stick by.

 

[biggiemediums]

LOL. All I'm doing is testing your opinion out mate. Anyone can say and think anything, so just because it's your freaking opinion, doesn't mean squat. You chose to drop it in a public forum and now someone's questioned its validity. So you can stick to your opinion if you really believe in it, but bitching that you aren't allowed to have an unquestionable opinion makes me think you don't have much to stick by.

Stop being such a sook. It's coming off as very childish even if you're not meaning it to be.

 

[Bazzar]

Dude, you are taking this site way too seriously. I said my opinion, and I stick to it because that's my freaking opinion. No Up-down routine, no shenanigans, I believe something that you don't. My opinion may be wrong, but it's my opinion.

You should know by now Monkey is always right. One smart cookie (and articulate)

 

[kane249]

Judd obviously, but as if he'd win a poll here.

The question is which one was better whilst at the Eagles

One played 134 games, the other 253 games

If Judd had played his entire career with us than he would probably win IMO but as he only played half his career Matera has him covered through sheer weight of numbers

 

[jod23]

What I find amusing is Carlton fans saying Judd this and Judd that.

You guys do realise you have Judd-lite. He is nowhere near the devastating player he was at WC.

Original question. Gotta be Matera. Freakish ability.

Cousins has them both beat though.

Greatest Eagles of all time.... Cousins, Matera, Judd.

 

[uncustom]

The question is which one was better whilst at the Eagles

One played 134 games, the other 253 games

If Judd had played his entire career with us than he would probably win IMO but as he only played half his career Matera has him covered through sheer weight of numbers

Compare Matera with Judd for their first 134 games.

 

[kane249]

Compare Matera with Judd for their first 134 games.

By that logic we could compare Scott Lycett's 2 games to Dean Cox's first 2 and make a judgement on who was better after 2 games as well

 

[MightyTiger]

Matera.

 

[uncustom]

By that logic we could compare Scott Lycett's 2 games to Dean Cox's first 2 and make a judgement on who was better after 2 games as well

134 games is a lot more, plus, even we can't compare Judd's 240 or so games to Matera's 253 cause only 134 of Judds were played at West Coast, You even said just to compare their time at eagles, would be better to compare Matera's first 134 games to Judds, instead of 253 to 134.

 

[Monkey King]

Stop being such a sook. It's coming off as very childish even if you're not meaning it to be.

Childish Indeed! All I've done is ask you to answer some questions as to how your dumbass opinion even makes sense. Your lashing out like this at a couple of simple questions and refusal to explain yourself beyond whimpering "it's my freaking opinion", makes me think that even you are aware how defective your comment was at this point.

You should know by now Monkey is always right. One smart cookie (and articulate)

Judd a better player than Matera? Hell yeah I'm right. Unless you have some pretty major issues with Judd, it's a no-brainer dude! It's like saying Kernahan was better than Carey. Sticks was a dead-set champion, one of the top 3 CHF's I've seen play. His achievements are actually closer to Carey's than Matera's to are to Judd's, but Carey was better ... no nuffie's right to an opinion is ever going to change that. LOL.

 

[biggiemediums]

Childish Indeed! All I've done is ask you to answer some questions as to how your dumbass opinion even makes sense. Your lashing out like this at a couple of simple questions and refusal to explain yourself beyond whimpering "it's my freaking opinion", makes me think that even you are aware how defective your comment was at this point.

Are you even aware of how stupid you look? Do you think you're perfect grammar and intellectual lingo hides your idiocy?

 

[Dundalis]

I want to know how often Matera was talked up as potentially the greatest player to have played, or regarded as easily the best player in the league at any one time. Because Judd had those come up while he was at the Eagles as legitimate comments.

 

[Monkey King]

Are you even aware of how stupid you look? Do you think you're perfect grammar and intellectual lingo hides your idiocy?

Mate. This is not Bay 13. You've posted an opinion. I've asked you to explain it. You can carry on like a pork chop all you like saying how stupid I am, I really don't care. Ultimately, that reflects upon you far more than it does me.

 

[Monkey King]

I want to know how often Matera was talked up as potentially the greatest player to have played, or regarded as easily the best player in the league at any one time. Because Judd had those come up while he was at the Eagles as legitimate comments.

At no time was Matera regarded the best in the league or even whispered as being potentially the best ever.

And it seems those down-talking Judd take great offense at being asked to explain their opinions in this regard.

 

[MightyTiger]

At no time was Matera regarded the best in the league or even whispered as being potentially the best ever.

And it seems those down-talking Judd take great offense at being asked to explain their opinions in this regard.

Being the best at something is all relative to the competition around you, in the era Matera played in you had some absolute true champions of the competition running around, Diesel, Hird, Jakovich, Jarman, Carey, Modra etc.

I feel Judd's greatness is inflated due tithe fact that the media simply fornicate over him, he can do no wrong even when he is in the wrong.

 

[biggiemediums]

Mate. This is not Bay 13. You've posted an opinion. I've asked you to explain it. You can carry on like a pork chop all you like saying how stupid I am, I really don't care. Ultimately, that reflects upon you far more than it does me.

But I answered you. I believe Cousins was the better player. And I believe Murphy is at the very least his equal. What more do you want in an answer?

 

[Monkey King]

Being the best at something is all relative to the competition around you, in the era Matera played in you had some absolute true champions of the competition running around, Diesel, Hird, Jakovich, Jarman, Carey, Modra etc.

Let's not forget Judd won a Brownlow the year after Goodes, Buckley and Ricciuto. He won the MVP around guys like Voss, Riewoldt and Ablett Jnr. There were some absolute true champions of the game playing some top flight football early in Judd's career when he was attracting these labels.

But still, what you say is absolutely correct, which is why you should focus on a cross-section rather than just the one aspect. Consider things like Judd being considered as potentially the "best ever" by the very same people who saw Matera's whole career wind up just a few years earlier. Judd collecting two MVP's and 5 B&F's compared to Matera only ever winning one B&F when his club finished 2nd last.

But let's get to the crux of what you've suggested here; are you really telling me that you believe if Matera was playing in the same era Judd has, that he would have been racking up MVP's and regarded as the best in the league?

I feel Judd's greatness is inflated due tithe fact that the media simply fornicate over him ...

Sure mate. It was all a media beat up

I saw the careers of both players and if you want to believe Matera was a better player than Judd at WCE then bully for you. You have no idea how stupid that looks to me. You might as well tell me that Warren Tredrea was better than Wayne Carey and how that damned media loved the Duck

 

[Monkey King]

But I answered you. I believe Cousins was the better player. And I believe Murphy is at the very least his equal. What more do you want in an answer?

LOL. Are you taking the piss? Let's have a look at your original post ...

Matera was amazing. Judd wasn't even the best player in his team. Cousins and Kerr were both better. And Murphy is better at Carlton.

Simply repeating the same statement you were originally quizzed over is not an answer

I'm not sure at this point if you're unwilling to answer the questions or just incapable of doing so.

 

[MightyTiger]

Let's not forget Judd won a Brownlow the year after Goodes, Buckley and Ricciuto. He won the MVP around guys like Voss, Riewoldt and Ablett Jnr. There were some absolute true champions of the game playing some top flight football early in Judd's career when he was attracting these labels.

But still, what you say is absolutely correct, which is why you should focus on a cross-section rather than just the one aspect. Consider things like Judd being considered as potentially the "best ever" by the very same people who saw Matera's whole career wind up just a few years earlier. Judd collecting two MVP's and 5 B&F's compared to Matera only ever winning one B&F when his club finished 2nd last.

But let's get to the crux of what you've suggested here; are you really telling me that you believe if Matera was playing in the same era Judd has, that he would have been racking up MVP's and regarded as the best in the league?



Sure mate. It was all a media beat up

I saw the careers of both players and if you want to believe Matera was a better player than Judd at WCE then bully for you. You have no idea how stupid that looks to me. You might as well tell me that Warren Tredrea was better than Wayne Carey and how that damned media loved the Duck

I'm not saying Judd hasn't got competition around him, far from it, but if we are being realistic about it how would Judd fair playing in the late 80s through to the 90s playing against a generation which has seen some of the greatest ever footballers play the game?

Judd deserves all the accolades he gets, it's not his fault that the competition is slightly weaker in his era of football, but to simply use personal accolades as a measuring stick in 2 different eras is silly IMO.

And yes I do believe Matera was better then Judd, but that's not a slight on Judd, Matera was a damn fine player, his ability through traffic with his speed, agility and his skills and his ability to do some freakish things was second to none.

And whether it looks stupid to you or not is irrelevant, it's a bit like me saying if you believe Judd was better then Matera how stupid that looks to me, but hey, this is an Internet forum where we are given the right to have an opinion.

 

[95blues]

I'm not saying Judd hasn't got competition around him, far from it, but if we are being realistic about it how would Judd fair playing in the late 80s through to the 90s playing against a generation which has seen some of the greatest ever footballers play the game?

Judd deserves all the accolades he gets, it's not his fault that the competition is slightly weaker in his era of football, but to simply use personal accolades as a measuring stick in 2 different eras is silly IMO.

And yes I do believe Matera was better then Judd, but that's not a slight on Judd, Matera was a damn fine player, his ability through traffic with his speed, agility and his skills and his ability to do some freakish things was second to none.

And whether it looks stupid to you or not is irrelevant, it's a bit like me saying if you believe Judd was better then Matera how stupid that looks to me, but hey, this is an Internet forum where we are given the right to have an opinion.

I hated Matera, but you cant deny how good he was.

I'm not intending this as a dig at the Eagles, but i remember thinking to myself while watching him (gee i hope he's being drug tested).

I still think Judd is/was and will be regarded as the better player and id still think that even if he played for Richmond or Essendon currently.

Judd is top 20 all time, Matera would sit comfortably inside the top 25-50 IMO.

 

[Monkey King]

Judd deserves all the accolades he gets, it's not his fault that the competition is slightly weaker in his era of football, but to simply use personal accolades as a measuring stick in 2 different eras is silly IMO.

I would be kind to call dismissing them out of hand with no consideration being silly.

One player barely winning a single B&F and the other winning MVP's and BnF's in premiership years is indeed relevant. As are the those who watched Matera's whole career before turning around just a few years later and suggesting that Judd could potentially be the best ever, while not ever breathing a word like this about Matera. I could also point to a gulf in a range of stats that indicate performance level. Actually, I have to stop and wonder what you blokes are basing your opinions on aside from not liking Judd and Matera being a fine player.

And whether it looks stupid to you or not is irrelevant, it's a bit like me saying if you believe Judd was better then Matera how stupid that looks to me, but hey, this is an Internet forum where we are given the right to have an opinion.

Having a right to an opinion doesn't mean shit to me. I tend to divide opinions into sub-categories such as informed opinion, educated opinion, well researched opinion, poorly devised opinion, prejudiced opinion and so on. Just being an opinion doesn't give it any merit in my eyes; but yes, you have the right to express it nonetheless.

For example, I can say Mark Maclure was better than Carey. I can cover my arse with the right to an opinion and different eras crap as well, but that wouldn't make me any less wrong and there are a range of objective indicators that will likely show my opinion is not very accurate, irrespective of my right to voice it.

 

[Monkey King]

I hated Matera, but you cant deny how good he was.

The irony for me is that I absolutely loved Matera in the early 90's, but hated Judd before he came to Carlton. Even then, it was clear as day that WCE Judd was a class above Matera. Not sure if either of them would make my top 25 of all time though.

 

[biggiemediums]

LOL. Are you taking the piss? Let's have a look at your original post ...



Simply repeating the same statement you were originally quizzed over is not an answer

I'm not sure at this point if you're unwilling to answer the questions or just incapable of doing so.

Fine, here. Kerr, Cousins and Murphy are/were ALL better than Judd because they can give off accurate delivery to team-mates whilst all receiving similar number to him. Murphy and Cousins may have had less grunt work but I believe there role was more important. Kerr does equal grunt work with better disposal, and don't even try to bring up stats to refute any of it. Eyes work far better than stats. IF Judd could kick he might be the best player of all time, but he can't. Is that alright with you, your majesty? Are you happy?