Opinion Pick your best 22 of the past decade (2007-2017)

[Procrastinator35]

Maybe you take this a little too seriously! Any perceived insult to your team or it's players and you come along with one of your rants! We don't all have to agree on these things.

"Not at all & not even close".....Your words!....

Out of a possible 150 games between 2011-2016, when we were at our peak, Burgoyne played in 146 of them for 112 wins & 34 losses, at a winning rate of 77%....That's an average of 24 games per year, with an average of 20 disposals per game over that time, playing principally as the medium lock-down defender.

In fact, his numbers over that period not only match those of Enright, but in most years surpass him.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

B: C. Enright - M. Scarlett - H. Shaw
HB: A. Rance - L. McPharlin - L. Hodge
C: A. Gaff - S. Mitchell - B. Hill
HF: S. Milne - N. Riewoldt - S. Johnson
F: C. Rioli - L. Franklin - L. Breust
R: D. Cox - C. Judd - G. Ablett
INT: A. Sandilands - S. Pendlebury - N. Fyfe - E. Wood

Hi Easton.

 

[35Daicos]

"Not at all & not even close".....Your words!....

Out of a possible 150 games between 2011-2016, when we were at our peak, Burgoyne played in 146 of them for 112 wins & 34 losses, at a winning rate of 77%....That's an average of 24 games per year, with an average of 20 disposals per game over that time, playing principally as the medium lock-down defender.

In fact, his numbers over that period not only match those of Enright, but in most years surpass him.

I agree, that was very poorly worded! Fair to say I was less than 100% sober by the time I posted that last night/this morning, so I wasn't at my sharpest!! Burgoyne has been a splendid player over many years, and would have to be given serious consideration for such a lineup. He still doesn't make my team, however, I have others in front of him.

 

[jackenny]

Hi Easton.

Easton's a gun. What's your point?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Easton's a gun. What's your point?

I think he means that if you're going to plump for a Bulldogs player, then at least make the choice a realistic one within the scope of the thread....Say Ryan Griffen for example.

While Easton made his debut in 2009, he never really became an established regular until the 2014 season, owing mainly to injuries....His 2015 & 2016 seasons were very good, without being exceptional.....Even in his best season of 2015, he only averaged 17.75 possies across 22 games.

 

[jackenny]

I think he means that if you're going to plump for a Bulldogs player, then at least make the choice a realistic one within the scope of the thread....Say Ryan Griffen for example.

While Easton made his debut in 2009, he never really became an established regular until the 2014 season, owing mainly to injuries....His 2015 & 2016 seasons were very good, without being exceptional.....Even in his best season of 2015, he only averaged 17.75 possies across 22 games.

He was a defender and led the whole competition for intercept marks. Do you find being the best at something in the whole competition not exceptional?

 

[Procrastinator35]

He was a defender and led the whole competition for intercept marks. Do you find being the best at something in the whole competition not exceptional?

Sure, but he only did it in 2 seasons of the allotted decade!....Do you really imagine that stat alone is enough to fulfil the criteria?

 

[jackenny]

Sure, but he only did it in 2 seasons of the allotted decade!....Do you really imagine that stat alone is enough to fulfil the criteria?

Yes, I do. Who else has led intercept marks in two seasons or more in the allotted decade?

I figure as a Hawthorn supporter you should know the value of intercept marks as Brian Lake won a Norm Smith on the back of taking seven of them during the 2013 Grand Final.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yes, I do. Who else has led intercept marks in two seasons or more in the allotted decade?

I figure as a Hawthorn supporter you should know the value of intercept marks as Brian Lake won a Norm Smith on the back of taking seven of them during the 2013 Grand Final.

Sorry, that just aint sufficient enough to warrant inclusion in any reasonable persons language.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Easton's a gun. What's your point?

No question that he is a very good player but you'd have to be on crack if you had a 14 possession and 2 tackle a game half back flanker in the best 22 players of the past decade.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Yes, I do. Who else has led intercept marks in two seasons or more in the allotted decade?

I figure as a Hawthorn supporter you should know the value of intercept marks as Brian Lake won a Norm Smith on the back of taking seven of them during the 2013 Grand Final.

Oh, we're talking intercept marks are we? That's your criteria? That is all a footballer does, is it?

Give me McGovern and Hurley every day of the week on that count then. Or perhaps for a more well rounded footballer, Shaun Burgoyne who plays a similar role at 36 years of age and has been one of the greatest big game players of all time. Plus he can go into the middle or go forward.

Easton Wood. Hilarious.

 

[jackenny]

Sorry, that just aint sufficient enough to warrant inclusion in any reasonable persons language.

I can't take what you have to say seriously when you start things off with an insincere apology. It speaks volumes of your character and you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

Oh, we're talking intercept marks are we? That's your criteria? That is all a footballer does, is it?

Give me McGovern and Hurley every day of the week on that count then. Or perhaps for a more well rounded footballer, Shaun Burgoyne who plays a similar role at 36 years of age and has been one of the greatest big game players of all time. Plus he can go into the middle or go forward.

Easton Wood. Hilarious.

No. I never said it's the only thing a footballer does. I said Wood led the competition in 2015 for intercept marks and that was exceptional. This was in reply to Procrastinator35 saying Wood wasn't exceptional after pulling up possession numbers for that season. He conceded that, yes, Wood led the competition in intercept marks -- for two seasons. I mean, he tried to downplay that by saying "only" two seasons. So I asked the obvious: How many other players led that stat for two seasons or more in the allotted decade?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

No. I never said it's the only thing a footballer does. I said Wood led the competition in 2015 for intercept marks and that was exceptional. This was in reply to Procrastinator35 saying Wood wasn't exceptional after pulling up possession numbers for that season. He conceded that, yes, Wood led the competition in intercept marks -- for two seasons. I mean, he tried to downplay that by saying "only" two seasons. So I asked the obvious: How many other players led that stat for two seasons or more in the allotted decade?

The problem you have is that is what you are using to justify your selection. Therefore you can expect to be called out on it.

Would you pick Easton Wood over Jeremy McGovern in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Michael Hurley in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Shaun Burgoyne in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Shannon Hurn in your team.

Because that is the calibre of player that you are leaving out who play in a similar position or play a similar role. Going further, given that you listed Wood on interchange, other players that you overlooked include Jarryd Roughead, Patrick Cripps, Jack Reiwoldt, Paul Chapman, Jimmy Bartel, Josh Kennedy (Syd), Adam Goodes, Cyril Rioli, Eddie Betts, Dane Swan, Marcus Bontempelli and probably a couple of dozen others.

 

[jackenny]

The problem you have is that is what you are using to justify your selection. Therefore you can expect to be called out on it.

Would you pick Easton Wood over Jeremy McGovern in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Michael Hurley in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Shaun Burgoyne in your team?
Would you pick Easton Wood over Shannon Hurn in your team.

Because that is the calibre of player that you are leaving out who play in a similar position or play a similar role. Going further, given that you listed Wood on interchange, other players that you overlooked include Jarryd Roughead, Patrick Cripps, Jack Reiwoldt, Paul Chapman, Jimmy Bartel, Josh Kennedy (Syd), Adam Goodes, Cyril Rioli, Eddie Betts, Dane Swan, Marcus Bontempelli and probably a couple of dozen others.

Why is it a problem that I am using it to justify my selection? Why is it reasonable for you to refer to possessions to refute my selection and unreasonable for me to challenge that by citing a stat he dominated? What are you in fact calling out, then?

In any case, you're clearly showing recency bias and arguing in bad faith when you mention players like Patrick Cripps considering this is between 2007-2017. Cripps had a very limited body of work at that time. The same can be said when you cite Shannon Hurn who didn't win his first All-Australian until 2018.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Why is it a problem that I am using it to justify my selection? Why is it reasonable for you to refer to possessions to refute my selection and unreasonable for me to challenge that by citing a stat he dominated? What are you in fact calling out, then?

In any case, you're clearly showing recency bias and arguing in bad faith when you mention players like Patrick Cripps considering this is between 2007-2017. Cripps had a very limited body of work at that time. The same can be said when you cite Shannon Hurn who didn't win his first All-Australian until 2018.

So you are going to continue to argue for Easton Wood's inclusion over Shaun Burgoyne's? Is Burgoyne's "body of work" not good enough for you? You know, the three flags (plus another with Port) and multiple big matches pulled out of the fire off his own boot?

There is pretty much nothing that Easton Wood can do on a football field that Shaun Burgoyne cannot do ten times better.

 

[jackenny]

So you are going to continue to argue for Easton Wood's inclusion over Shaun Burgoyne's? Is Burgoyne's "body of work" not good enough for you? You know, the three flags (plus another with Port) and multiple big matches pulled out of the fire off his own boot?

There is pretty much nothing that Easton Wood can do on a football field that Shaun Burgoyne cannot do ten times better.

Shaun Burgoyne and Easton Wood have as many All-Australians as each other. I don't think he's ever won a Best and Fairest, though. So yeah, I am comfortable continuing to argue for Easton Wood's inclusion. I could probably trade Shaun Burgoyne for Brad Hill, though.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Shaun Burgoyne and Easton Wood have as many All-Australians as each other. I don't think he's ever won a Best and Fairest, though. So yeah, I am comfortable continuing to argue for Easton Wood's inclusion. I could probably trade Shaun Burgoyne for Brad Hill, though.

The three greatest players of all time never won a Brownlow between them. Your argument is that Shane Woewodin is a better player than Leigh Matthews? Also better than Wayne Carey? And better than Gary Ablett Sr?

AA awards and intercept marks is your criteria?

I'll give you a tip mate, you would be the only person on here and probably the only person who watches footy who has the nerve (stupidity) to even dare compare Easton Wood to Shaun Burgoyne. Those who saw him play will talk about Shaun Burgoyne 50 years from now. Easton Wood will be forgotten in 10.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I can't take what you have to say seriously when you start things off with an insincere apology. It speaks volumes of your character and you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

My character has zero to do with your poor & inappropriate selections.

 

[jackenny]

The three greatest players of all time never won a Brownlow between them. Your argument is that Shane Woewodin is a better player than Leigh Matthews? Also better than Wayne Carey? And better than Gary Ablett Sr?

AA awards and intercept marks is your criteria?

I'll give you a tip mate, you would be the only person on here and probably the only person who watches footy who has the nerve (stupidity) to even dare compare Easton Wood to Shaun Burgoyne. Those who saw him play will talk about Shaun Burgoyne 50 years from now. Easton Wood will be forgotten in 10.

How is this my argument when I never even mentioned brownlows? I never said and would never say that Shane Woewodin is a better player than Leigh Matthews. You speak a big game about 'calling me out', but the only thing you're offering here is a strawman argument (link).

In any case, Easton Wood is one of only two premiership captains for the Western Bulldogs. Do you want to reconsider your stance about him being "forgotten in 10"?

Also, it's incredibly disingenuous to call someone a mate and insult their intelligence in the same sentence. I'll give you a tip mate, being a passive aggressive bitch doesn't help your argument.

 

[WilloTree]

I'll have a crack...

FB: Burgoyne, Rance, Laird
HB: Hodge, McGovern, Enright
M: Dangerfield, S Mitchell, Pendlebury
HF: Goodes, Riewlodt, Fyfe
FF: Gunston, Franklin, Betts
Foll: Cox, Judd, Ablett
Int: Martin, Pavlich, Hannebery, Bartell

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'll have a crack...

FB: Burgoyne, Rance, Laird
HB: Hodge, McGovern, Enright
M: Dangerfield, S Mitchell, Pendlebury
HF: Goodes, Riewlodt, Fyfe
FF: Gunston, Franklin, Betts
Foll: Cox, Judd, Ablett
Int: Martin, Pavlich, Hannebery, Bartell

McGovern only became elite from 2016 onwards.....No where near long enough for the period in question....Which is from 2007-2017 (Should be 2007-2016)....Laird from 2015 onward also makes a mockery of his inclusion.

Gunston & Hannebery stick out as questionable inclusions also....Plenty of Cats players played in 3 Premierships in the period....The obvious 2 central figures missing from your list, being Scarlett & Johnson.

Lake & Glass would also be well ahead of McGovern as a key back during the period.

I doubt even the most biased Hawk fan would include Gunston in the same category as Hodge, Mitchell, Burger & Buddy.....Cyril, Yes.

 

[WilloTree]

McGovern only became elite from 2016 onwards.....No where near long enough for the period in question....Which is from 2007-2017 (Should be 2007-2016)....Laird from 2015 onward also makes a mockery of his inclusion.

Gunston & Hannebery stick out as questionable inclusions also....Plenty of Cats players played in 3 Premierships in the period....The obvious 2 central figures missing from your list, being Scarlett & Johnson.

Lake & Glass would also be well ahead of McGovern as a key back during the period.

I doubt even the most biased Hawk fan would include Gunston in the same category as Hodge, Mitchell, Burger & Buddy.....Cyril, Yes.

Yeah, I may have lent a bit heavy on current players. I also tried to pick players in positions they play/ed. Hence McGovern. He's one of the best readers of the play/intercept marks I've seen in a long time. Eagles wouldn't have even made a GF, let alone won it without him. His impact in 2018 is as important as Martin's in 2017.

Anyway, it's just an opinion thread. There's no way someone can be 'right' or 'wrong'.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yeah, I may have lent a bit heavy on current players. I also tried to pick players in positions they play/ed. Hence McGovern. He's one of the best readers of the play/intercept marks I've seen in a long time. Eagles wouldn't have even made a GF, let alone won it without him. His impact in 2018 is as important as Martin's in 2017.

Anyway, it's just an opinion thread. There's no way someone can be 'right' or 'wrong'.

More a question of accuracy I'd have thought....McGovern & Laird would definitely come into serious consideration for a 2015 & onwards discussion, for best 22.

 

[bebji]

A few unlucky to miss, but I'm happy with this team:

B: Enright Scarlett Lake
HB: Hodge Rance McGovern
C: Pendles Mitchell Selwood
HF: Dangerfield Franklin Fyfe
F: S.Johnson Kennedy Betts
R: Sandilands Judd Ablett
I: Goodes Swan Bartel Burgoyne

 

[Procrastinator35]

A few unlucky to miss, but I'm happy with this team:

B: Enright Scarlett Lake
HB: Hodge Rance McGovern
C: Pendles Mitchell Selwood
HF: Dangerfield Franklin Fyfe
F: S.Johnson Kennedy Betts
R: Sandilands Judd Ablett
I: Goodes Swan Bartel Burgoyne

Given the era under consideration, then McGovern stands out like the proverbial dogs bollocks in your side, as not belonging.