Pies pay for 4 years of poor dealing

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BrownDog2

Team Captain
Oct 29, 2003
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West Coast
AFL Club
West Coast
WITHIN hours of Collingwood's grand final humiliation last year, coach Mick Malthouse promised that not one of his players who took the field that day would be traded to another club.

A month later, Malthouse remained true to his word. With the trading period complete, only Heath Scotland had left to join Carlton, but then only at his own insistence.

Collingwood held firm and kept its team together.

With the grand finalist of the past two years sitting 15th on the ladder with the worst percentage in the competition, Collingwood supporters are starting to realise at what cost.

Nick Stevens could have been playing for Collingwood against Fremantle last Sunday, if Malthouse had been prepared to part with any of Alan Didak, Ryan Lonie, Simon Prestigiacomo or Richard Cole.
Any of these players plus Collingwood's first pick in the national draft would have satisfied Port Adelaide's terms for Stevens.
By the second day of trading, club president Eddie McGuire could have been hosting a packed media conference to welcome one of the elite midfielders in the competition.

Instead, Collingwood tried to get Stevens for less. Didak said he didn't want to go and Collingwood refused to forcibly expatriate any of the nominated quartet.
The club tried to secure another first-round draft pick from a third club to sweeten the deal but only offered fringe players like Scotland, Leon Davis, Steve McKee and Mark McGough to a sceptical market.

With 15 minutes to go in trading, Collingwood came up with its best offer: a first and second round pick. Port refused to discount its terms and Stevens ended up in the pre-season draft.
If it were a one-off, Collingwood could attribute the Stevens fiasco to the vagaries of trading or the stubbornness of Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams, who preferred to let Stevens go for nothing than allow him to go to Collingwood for a song.

The problem for Collingwood is that this was not a one-off.
At the end of the 2001 season, Essendon was prepared to trade Joe Misiti to Collingwood in exchange for pick No.11 in the national draft. With the knowledge that Essendon had to trade senior players because of salary cap pressure, Collingwood held out for a better deal. It never came and Collingwood missed the deadline.

At the end of the 2000 season, Fraser Gehrig wanted to leave West Coast to return to Melbourne. His first preference was Collingwood but St Kilda was also interested. The Eagles told both clubs that they were keen to strike a deal. St Kilda got in first and Collingwood was left at the altar.

Malthouse considers himself a development coach and has a strong belief in building teams from the best teenage talent. But at a time when Malthouse is having to work with, in his own words, a "very, very thin" list, it is Collingwood's refusal to trade which has added to the skinny appearance.

Since Collingwood emerged as a finals contender in the 2001 season, Shane Woewodin is the only player to arrive from another AFL club and become a permanent member of the senior team.
Malthouse says the salary cap has been unkind to Collingwood but with Woewodin, a highly-paid player forced out of Melbourne for financial reasons, it was very kind indeed.

So what really happened with Stevens?
Truth in player trading is elusive at the best of times and last year's Stevens debacle is a hotly debated case in point.
Collingwood remains dumbfounded that Port allowed its best midfielder to go for no return. Port Adelaide remains convinced that the Magpies were in cahoots with Stevens' management.
The view of Stevens' management is that the bad blood between Collingwood and Port Adelaide made a deal nigh on impossible from the start.
But all parties agree that the first meeting between Port and Collingwood officials on the opening day of trading left both clubs hopeful a deal would be done.

The next day Malthouse flew in from London and Didak was immediately taken off the table. From that point, a deal never got close.

On Monday Collingwood defended the way it had handled negotiations. As one official put it, if the club's worst crime was to be loyal to players like Didak and Lonie, it is criticism they will happily wear.
The question is whether Collingwood supporters, smarting from the loss of two grand finals, will wear it quite so happily.
 

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I remember when the pies snared Noel Judkins as a recruiting officer. Rohan (when he was posting at the time) said they'd have the best depth list etc for the next ten years...

Looks like he was wrong (again) so far.
 
Gee, Joe Misiti would have been GREAT for us.........

Our recruiting has generally been good, with one notable exception, failure to obtain a top line ruckman.
 
N29, thats not true. Their depth from the 12th best player to the bottom of the list is incredibly consistent.
 
BrownDog, please tell me your not a Bulldogs supporter, because if you are than you are disgracing every dogs supporter on here.

Just get over your obsession with Collingwood.
 
Originally posted by Borgsta
BrownDog, please tell me your not a Bulldogs supporter, because if you are than you are disgracing every dogs supporter on here.

Just get over your obsession with Collingwood.

Don't think he is a Doggies supporter.
 

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I really don't think the problem is with the Collingwood midfield as such, even though like most other teams, they could use some quality in there. The problem is with key position and ruckman. They would desperately need at least 1 more kp backman (if not kp forward) and quality ruckman. This would allow Fraser to support Tarrant & Rocca forward and bolster the back half with Wakelin, New Bloke, Clement, Cloke, Presti.

This is where they have gone wrong. Have not traded for any BIG key position players. Imagine if they did get Gehrig!
 
Originally posted by BrownDog2
WITHIN hours of Collingwood's grand final humiliation last year, coach Mick Malthouse promised that not one of his players who took the field that day would be traded to another club.

A month later, Malthouse remained true to his word. With the trading period complete, only Heath Scotland had left to join Carlton, but then only at his own insistence.

Collingwood held firm and kept its team together.

With the grand finalist of the past two years sitting 15th on the ladder with the worst percentage in the competition, Collingwood supporters are starting to realise at what cost.

Nick Stevens could have been playing for Collingwood against Fremantle last Sunday, if Malthouse had been prepared to part with any of Alan Didak, Ryan Lonie, Simon Prestigiacomo or Richard Cole.
Any of these players plus Collingwood's first pick in the national draft would have satisfied Port Adelaide's terms for Stevens.
By the second day of trading, club president Eddie McGuire could have been hosting a packed media conference to welcome one of the elite midfielders in the competition.

Instead, Collingwood tried to get Stevens for less. Didak said he didn't want to go and Collingwood refused to forcibly expatriate any of the nominated quartet.
The club tried to secure another first-round draft pick from a third club to sweeten the deal but only offered fringe players like Scotland, Leon Davis, Steve McKee and Mark McGough to a sceptical market.

With 15 minutes to go in trading, Collingwood came up with its best offer: a first and second round pick. Port refused to discount its terms and Stevens ended up in the pre-season draft.
If it were a one-off, Collingwood could attribute the Stevens fiasco to the vagaries of trading or the stubbornness of Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams, who preferred to let Stevens go for nothing than allow him to go to Collingwood for a song.

The problem for Collingwood is that this was not a one-off.
At the end of the 2001 season, Essendon was prepared to trade Joe Misiti to Collingwood in exchange for pick No.11 in the national draft. With the knowledge that Essendon had to trade senior players because of salary cap pressure, Collingwood held out for a better deal. It never came and Collingwood missed the deadline.

At the end of the 2000 season, Fraser Gehrig wanted to leave West Coast to return to Melbourne. His first preference was Collingwood but St Kilda was also interested. The Eagles told both clubs that they were keen to strike a deal. St Kilda got in first and Collingwood was left at the altar.

Malthouse considers himself a development coach and has a strong belief in building teams from the best teenage talent. But at a time when Malthouse is having to work with, in his own words, a "very, very thin" list, it is Collingwood's refusal to trade which has added to the skinny appearance.

Since Collingwood emerged as a finals contender in the 2001 season, Shane Woewodin is the only player to arrive from another AFL club and become a permanent member of the senior team.
Malthouse says the salary cap has been unkind to Collingwood but with Woewodin, a highly-paid player forced out of Melbourne for financial reasons, it was very kind indeed.

So what really happened with Stevens?
Truth in player trading is elusive at the best of times and last year's Stevens debacle is a hotly debated case in point.
Collingwood remains dumbfounded that Port allowed its best midfielder to go for no return. Port Adelaide remains convinced that the Magpies were in cahoots with Stevens' management.
The view of Stevens' management is that the bad blood between Collingwood and Port Adelaide made a deal nigh on impossible from the start.
But all parties agree that the first meeting between Port and Collingwood officials on the opening day of trading left both clubs hopeful a deal would be done.

The next day Malthouse flew in from London and Didak was immediately taken off the table. From that point, a deal never got close.

On Monday Collingwood defended the way it had handled negotiations. As one official put it, if the club's worst crime was to be loyal to players like Didak and Lonie, it is criticism they will happily wear.
The question is whether Collingwood supporters, smarting from the loss of two grand finals, will wear it quite so happily.
Excellent post. You neglected to include Collingwood's continued failure to address their abysmal ruck division. As far as the thin list I do not accept that as an excuse. Admitting failure such as that requires heads to roll. Collingwood recruited with great fanfare Noel Judkins. Noel went to Colloingwood with a reputation as the best in the business. How much authority he was given to influence recruiting is questionable. Recently on radio he admitted that MM had given him, as one of the prerequisites for new recruits coming to Collingwood "they must possess a big arse" You heard it correct "Give me blokes with a big arse" was Mick's motto.
Looks like the clear out that should have happened last year will happen this year as the realisation confronts the hierarchy that this list has been damaged considerably by the experiences of the last two seasons. Maybe the board should look at the President and the Coach. Unlikely but all us non Collingwood people will be very happy if they remain at the helm. It means one less team we have to worry about for the premier ship.
 
Originally posted by BrownDog2
WITHIN hours of Collingwood's grand final humiliation last year, coach Mick Malthouse promised that not one of his players who took the field that day would be traded to another club.

A month later, Malthouse remained true to his word. With the trading period complete, only Heath Scotland had left to join Carlton, but then only at his own insistence.

Collingwood held firm and kept its team together.

With the grand finalist of the past two years sitting 15th on the ladder with the worst percentage in the competition, Collingwood supporters are starting to realise at what cost.

Nick Stevens could have been playing for Collingwood against Fremantle last Sunday, if Malthouse had been prepared to part with any of Alan Didak, Ryan Lonie, Simon Prestigiacomo or Richard Cole.
Any of these players plus Collingwood's first pick in the national draft would have satisfied Port Adelaide's terms for Stevens.
By the second day of trading, club president Eddie McGuire could have been hosting a packed media conference to welcome one of the elite midfielders in the competition.

Instead, Collingwood tried to get Stevens for less. Didak said he didn't want to go and Collingwood refused to forcibly expatriate any of the nominated quartet.
The club tried to secure another first-round draft pick from a third club to sweeten the deal but only offered fringe players like Scotland, Leon Davis, Steve McKee and Mark McGough to a sceptical market.

With 15 minutes to go in trading, Collingwood came up with its best offer: a first and second round pick. Port refused to discount its terms and Stevens ended up in the pre-season draft.
If it were a one-off, Collingwood could attribute the Stevens fiasco to the vagaries of trading or the stubbornness of Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams, who preferred to let Stevens go for nothing than allow him to go to Collingwood for a song.

The problem for Collingwood is that this was not a one-off.
At the end of the 2001 season, Essendon was prepared to trade Joe Misiti to Collingwood in exchange for pick No.11 in the national draft. With the knowledge that Essendon had to trade senior players because of salary cap pressure, Collingwood held out for a better deal. It never came and Collingwood missed the deadline.

At the end of the 2000 season, Fraser Gehrig wanted to leave West Coast to return to Melbourne. His first preference was Collingwood but St Kilda was also interested. The Eagles told both clubs that they were keen to strike a deal. St Kilda got in first and Collingwood was left at the altar.

Malthouse considers himself a development coach and has a strong belief in building teams from the best teenage talent. But at a time when Malthouse is having to work with, in his own words, a "very, very thin" list, it is Collingwood's refusal to trade which has added to the skinny appearance.

Since Collingwood emerged as a finals contender in the 2001 season, Shane Woewodin is the only player to arrive from another AFL club and become a permanent member of the senior team.
Malthouse says the salary cap has been unkind to Collingwood but with Woewodin, a highly-paid player forced out of Melbourne for financial reasons, it was very kind indeed.

So what really happened with Stevens?
Truth in player trading is elusive at the best of times and last year's Stevens debacle is a hotly debated case in point.
Collingwood remains dumbfounded that Port allowed its best midfielder to go for no return. Port Adelaide remains convinced that the Magpies were in cahoots with Stevens' management.
The view of Stevens' management is that the bad blood between Collingwood and Port Adelaide made a deal nigh on impossible from the start.
But all parties agree that the first meeting between Port and Collingwood officials on the opening day of trading left both clubs hopeful a deal would be done.

The next day Malthouse flew in from London and Didak was immediately taken off the table. From that point, a deal never got close.

On Monday Collingwood defended the way it had handled negotiations. As one official put it, if the club's worst crime was to be loyal to players like Didak and Lonie, it is criticism they will happily wear.
The question is whether Collingwood supporters, smarting from the loss of two grand finals, will wear it quite so happily.

I am a firm believer in giving your source, in this case

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9340846%5E2722,00.html

The Australian - otherwise some folk might think you thought all this up your self - tosser
 
title shoudl be pies pay for obsessing over family ties.

at least the dons did it a bit better with reynolds and watson,

the shaws and clokes leave a lot to be desired.
 
Re: Re: Pies pay for 4 years of poor dealing

Originally posted by Matty01
Geez how much does Buckley and Tarrant cost them a year? Who else can they be possibly paying that is worth anything?:D

Buckley is now on the Veterns list, so he is costing us half of what it used to. Tarrant (aswell as Clement) took pay cuts when they re-signed last season. From what I heard last year it was so Collingwood could "go shopping" which obviously we didn't.
 
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Don't think he is a Doggies supporter.
Possibly a Carlton supporter since Fraser Brown's nickname was Dog but has never posted on the Blues board to my knowledge.
 
Originally posted by Ted Pellitts

the shaws and clokes leave a lot to be desired.


How about waiting for them to play senior footy before making the judgement call?
 
Re: Re: Re: Pies pay for 4 years of poor dealing

Originally posted by The Scarecrow
Buckley is now on the Veterns list, so he is costing us half of what it used to. Tarrant (aswell as Clement) took pay cuts when they re-signed last season. From what I heard last year it was so Collingwood could "go shopping" which obviously we didn't.
It is quite amazing that Malthouse can blame the salary cap for having a "thin list" but then have the anecdotal (and common sense.. but then again Freo did spend their full cap and more on the motley crew that wore purple in 2001) evidence that they tried to buy players but couldn't. The only summary you can draw from that is that it isn't the salary cap that's hurt the pies but poor/unlucky drafting and the inability to be able to trade/poach players.
You would think that with their huge advantage in terms of media exposure, training facilities (compared to other Vic teams) and tradition that they would be able to entice more players to them. But given the AFL trade rules, you have to do a deal, and maybe because of those perceived benefits, other clubs play hardball with them.
Either way, they better hope that Mullins, King, Shaw(s), Richards etc develop quickly, and that Rocca, Burns, Buckley and Tarrant play most games or else it could be a tough few years for the Pies. They probably got to the top too quickly and now comes the fall.
 
Originally posted by hotpie
How about waiting for them to play senior footy before making the judgement call?

C. Cloke is in his third season on the list surely he would have made it by now.
 

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