Player trades paying dividends

[HolyRioli]

I need to correct some confusion here.

The McGlynn and Kennedy trade had nothing to do with Burgoyne.

As I said earlier, trading the two players to the Swans got us three picks..which we used on Grimley, Stratton and Suckling

The Burgoyne trade cost us Mark Williams and Pick 9, (we also got a pick upgrade from 89 to 58, which went on Rhan Hooper)

We got Gibson and pick 68 for pick 25 and 41

Clear as mud?

Not entirely true. Kennedy had nothing to do with Burgoyne, but McGlynn, from my understanding, told the club if we recruited Shaun then he would like to be traded elsewhere, as he saw a diminishing chance of him playing regular first team football. Fair enough, Hawks found him a new home.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

If we win a flag in the next few years with them it has been worthwhile.

If we don't it won't have been because we have robbed our future of several potential young stars.

 

[Tomohawks]

Agreed, reports before said it was crap apart from some top end talent. Not seen anything since to change my mind.

I don't think Butcher will make it, not sure on Moore, Williams isn't getting a game for the bombers and quite probably would not have been playing for us either so I really can only see this as a win.

On what do you base this on? I happen to know that Port are very excited about his athleticism (state under 15 hurdle champ) and elite contested marking, and once he grows into his body after a rapid growth spurt he could be a force to be reckoned with.

By the way I love our recruitment of Burger as you don't pick up top 20-30 players everyday. Clarko's connections from his Port days have proven very fruitful with Goo and Gil joining him on field along with a few others in the footy department.

 

[Brishawk]

On what do you base this on? I happen to know that Port are very excited about his athleticism (state under 15 hurdle champ) and elite contested marking, and once he grows into his body after a rapid growth spurt he could be a force to be reckoned with.

By the way I love our recruitment of Burger as you don't pick up top 20-30 players everyday. Clarko's connections from his Port days have proven very fruitful with Goo and Gil joining him on field along with a few others in the footy department.

Look, I am no recruiting expert but Butcher struck me (as a junior) as the best of a bad bunch of talls. I don't think the depth of KP talent was very strong in that draft year and as a result he slipped as far down the order as has any first picked KPP. Normally the best of the draft goes top 5. I believe there were question marks around is skills (and agility IIRC) and in the match I saw him play he kicked about 4 goals but it wasn't a convincing performance for mine. He looked a lessor version of Kennedy to me and I didn't rate him as highly as Carlton did but of course he is a reasonable player now and I think his best is yet to come. So good luck to Butcher, I hope he can develop and overcome his deficiencies but I just didn't see an AFL player in him then and not seen anything of him since (reported or games played). Always happy to be proven wrong by young talent though!

 

[Satchmo]

Burgers brings more to the table other than skills.

Leadership, maturity and everytime a Hawk player describes burgers they are
in awe of his work ethic and talent.

That sets the bar high for kids coming through to learn from and what is expected.

Thank god he is at Hawthorn, after persisting with the likes of Muston, Dowler, Moss & Thorp for so long he certainly helps restore some credibility back to the coaches.

A great pickup for Williams who lets face it was on a downhill slide in work rate & dedication.

 

[Pessimistic]

Let's get some things straight here:

* Jolly wanted to get to Collingwood. From what I understand he had no intention of landing anywhere else.

* Hawthorn was a long way down the road with Burgoyne. He had walked out on Port to join Hawthorn and would only countenance a trade to Hawthorn.

So how would it look to tell Burgoyne to get stuffed? He had cut himself off from Port. You could essentially torpedo any recruiting Hawthorn may attempt for the next five years.




No, we used one of the Sydney picks (70) to elevate Suckling onto the main list.

All true.

Hypothetically the comparison should be Ball Jolly and Krakouer v Hale Gibson and Burgoyne.

None really young players so its on how good they are NOW.

each set is a good fir for their new club but Jolly and Ball were a really good fit for te Pies. hawks fans know all too well how easily the pies could be smashed in the centre square

 

[mark121]

Jolly has said after he was traded to Collingwood that when he was looking for a Melbourne club he was looking for someone who was a finals contender, could afford his wage and was after a ruckman.

2 clubs fit his needs but Hawthorne had already commited to Burgoyne or were a long way into talks with him (i forget), the other choice was Collingwood who had more to trade because Jolly was their main target.

Jolly was still contracted and if Hawthorne had more to trade than Collingwood they probably would have got him.

 

[The BIG X]

Jolly has said after he was traded to Collingwood that when he was looking for a Melbourne club he was looking for someone who was a finals contender, could afford his wage and was after a ruckman.

2 clubs fit his needs but Hawthorne had already commited to Burgoyne or were a long way into talks with him (i forget), the other choice was Collingwood who had more to trade because Jolly was their main target.

Jolly was still contracted and if Hawthorne had more to trade than Collingwood they probably would have got him.

2 points - it is spelt Hawthorn

and Jolly only wanted to go to Collingwood

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

You should get it right with a trade as you are drafting a known quantity. Hale, Burger and Gibbo will be important if we are to win another flag in the short term.

Hooper was a waste and I am not convinced on Bruce, Johnson and Cheney. I appreciate it was from a compromised draft but I dont think any of these guys will help us win a final.

K3 and BMac were great fits for the Ducks but I dont reckon they would have got much game time with us. I saw Willo for Bendigo and he is shot.

 

[eldorado]

I am not convinced on Bruce, Johnson and Cheney. I appreciate it was from a compromised draft but I dont think any of these guys will help us win a final.

.

No, but probably not the reason they were drafted. With the possible exception of Bruce, they were taken very cheap as insurance, (particularly Johnson), as options when the injuries start to take hold of the best 22 players.

Johnson a rookie, Bruce pre-season draft and Cheney didn't even cost us a pick.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

............Johnson a rookie, Bruce pre-season draft and Cheney didn't even cost us a pick.

Appreciate they were all cheap purchases but they do they do represent an opportunity cost. I dont mind Johnson as insurance. The potential of Bruce and Cheney is known from their exploits at Melbourne.

I would have preferred we take a higher risk approach and speculated on some undeveloped talls.

 

[Beachy]

I beleive that our trading has really filled holes that we had in the playing list.
Hale/ruck
Gibbo/key defense
Burg/ outside skillfull player
Bruce/ multi dimensional but good lock down player who can win his own ball

Like all teams we are susecpable to injuries but this also give some time to the kids coming through to develope without the pressure to perform. Shoey to play a position and become a 10yr gun. Lowden to be a very good tap ruckman. Savage/smith to be a genuine outside players. There is the future but importantly they can develope at their pace not forced into something that they are not ready for. Stratton was 21, 3 years difference to some of the kids being drafted and had been playing again men so had an idea.

 

[Slattery_20]

Burgoyne, from about half-way through last year, has been as good as anyone.
Full stop.

That said, anyone who thinks Mitch Duncan or Fyfe or Melksham have been 'meh' needs their head read... just because trading those picks didn't work for you doesn't mean they weren't worth anything... some quality there.

Hale, Gibson pretty much just solid mid-tier players that I still think you spent a little bit too much on.

 

[eldorado]

Hale, Gibson pretty much just solid mid-tier players that I still think you spent a little bit too much on.

Hale, maybe, but we got overpaid on Campbell Brown anyway, and we desperately needed a solid mature bodied versatile ruck.

Players are worth exactly how much they are needed..

Re Gibson, they got Black and Kennedy, we got Gibson and Duryea...impossible to say if the cost was fair until the three younger players have a few years in them, while Gibson has been excellent

 

[macdaddio]

Yeah nah, I still don't think we should have gotten Burgoyne or given away Kennedy and McGlynn.

Others may disagree.

I was of that feeling too before i seen what Shiels and Savage have to offer, both will off over taken Benny and Josh by years end.

So we not only have Burger but also Savage and Shiels which looks like to me to be a star midfield not far away...

 

[yirra_kurl]

On what do you base this on? I happen to know that Port are very excited about his athleticism (state under 15 hurdle champ) and elite contested marking, and once he grows into his body after a rapid growth spurt he could be a force to be reckoned with.

By the way I love our recruitment of Burger as you don't pick up top 20-30 players everyday. Clarko's connections from his Port days have proven very fruitful with Goo and Gil joining him on field along with a few others in the footy department.

you mention Goo and Gil - but no Dew? I know he aint playing any more - but cmon man!!!

 

[DannyJ]

Shaun Burgoyne is a top 20 AFL player. Darren Jolly is not.

Not that this is even an arguement, Jolly wanted Collingwood. Burgoyne wanted Hawthorn.

Collingwood and Hawthorn got bargains.

 

[DannyJ]

On what do you base this on? I happen to know that Port are very excited about his athleticism (state under 15 hurdle champ) and elite contested marking, and once he grows into his body after a rapid growth spurt he could be a force to be reckoned with.

By the way I love our recruitment of Burger as you don't pick up top 20-30 players everyday. Clarko's connections from his Port days have proven very fruitful with Goo and Gil joining him on field along with a few others in the footy department.

Butcher was Ports own pick. They got 9+16 from the Burger deal and gave up 24 (carlisle).

Moore + JMP for Burgoyne + Carlisle. They may have got Jay Nash from the deal aswell.

 

[WillowSF]

If Burgoyne helps deliver us a premiership he is more than worth it. Overall it’s risky to recruit a player of his age but so far he has been good.

I’m not convinced that Bruce & Cheney are good pickups either. It’s too early to tell I guess.

Kennedy & McGlynn we gave away cheaply but were lucky in getting Stratton in return who at this stage looks like he is going to be easily better than both.

We have had our fair share of failures too. Peterson & Hooper spring to mind.

The last one I’m still making my mind about is Hale. He’s been OK but does he offer much more than Skipper? I have my concerns but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hodgepodge]

HP, Butcher and Moore aren't even playing for Port yet, Burgoyne's contributions last year and already this year show that we absolutely cleaned up with that trade..

As far as I know it was Pick 9 that was traded, which was used for Andrew Moore for Port Adelaide.

You may be right about this trade, and if Burgoyne plays 250 games it'll probably be a win for us.

 

[Hodgepodge]

The last one I’m still making my mind about is Hale. He’s been OK but does he offer much more than Skipper? I have my concerns but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If he can play a bit taller he'll be an improvement on Skipper. At the moment it's about even.

 

[Slattery_20]

Hale's a better player than Skipper. Comfortably.

 

[Brishawk]

Hale's a better player than Skipper. Comfortably.

x 2

 

[Roughouse]

Hale is not only an upgrade on Skipper, he is also far better than Renouf in the centre square and when resting up forward.

To expect Susie kick straight for goal is an exercise in futility.

As for Burgoyne he is pure silk, great evasive skills, deceptively tall, quick, and a great finisher. I just wish he was 5 years younger!

Gibbo I thought was best on ground last week. Certainly his best game for the club so far.

As for the blokes from Melbourne the jury is still out.

 

[briseds]

Stratton was a good pick up - unfortunately his gone.

Burgyone has just been getting better each week. He is an out and out superstar. He may win the brownlow this year. A great pick up.

The jury is out on the rest.