Players who have recently walked away from, or been kicked out of the game before their time.

[Blues177]

Not a recent one but Peter Bosustow played only 3 seasons for the blues

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

a few comments.

Mark Bos retired because Gary Ablett gave him a hiding in the Geelong social club one night.

Adrian Mcadam owns this thread.

 

[ManOfClay]

Jayden "All bark, no bite" Schofield.

Upon being drafted he told Barry Hall that hall was "no longer the toughest, meanest guy at the club."

Sledged John Anthony in a trial game along the lines of "no wonder Collingwood traded you, you are shit".

Then in a vfl game vs Casey he told Fev (who was going through his own shit at the time) that he was "A fat sack of crap with no wife and no life".

Played a couple of unspectacular games, including trying to fight Kurt Tippett on debut (Schoey is built like Hayden Ballantyne).



Then just quit and ****ed off home.

 

[UpForGrabs]

I think the thread has moved away from where I intended it to go, probably due to the title. Of the numerous players named, many had long and successful careers. Would clubs have regretted recruiting nick davis, ben cousins, jason akermanis, etc? Definitely not. Many of these players made great contributions to the game. For what ever reason, many players have their careers ended in their late 20s, early 30s, however this was not what I was intending on highlighting. Sure, many players could have gone on another year or two, but that is not the point. The young indigenous players of recent times have missed out on a potential 10+ year career. Would Richmond regret recruiting Troy Taylor? Melbourne regret recruiting Wonaemirri? Adelaide regret recruiting Milera? I would have to say yes. Any career that ends after only 1, 2, 3, even 4 years, for the reasons mentioned in the original post, would most definitely not get a green tick for a recruiter IMO. So whilst this thread has named mostly 'white' players, once the long serving (or at least above average games total) players are removed, it swings back heavily towards the young indigenous kids.

So what you are saying is that you should have titled the thread "let's name all the aboriginal players who didn't work out at their club so we can prove that Matt Rendell was right"

 

[whattagun07]

Ok thanks for everyone's contributions. So here are all the recent players (2006-12) who have come up in this thread. Many names that have been mentioned had long, successful careers, and recruiters probably wouldn't think twice about drafting this player again if they had their time over (with any other player being a raffle). Im not sure what the average player career span is, but these guys are well above it! These players are in Green

Players in Red would undoubtedly be a disappointment for a recruiter.

Players in Orange would probably have had an above average AFL career when all players drafted are taken into account. Effectively a break-even for a club. In Marty Clarke's case, his career is still going.


Brendan Fevola (multiple off-field 'indiscretions')
Travis Tuck (3 strikes / arguably form)
Tadhg Kennelly (8 years playing, 1 year home for personal reasons, although he returned for 2 more years)
Andrew Lovett (pending criminal charges at the time, but was later acquitted - disappointment for Stk, but maybe not Ess, 88 games, 92 goals over 5 seasons)
Nathan Krakouer (personal reasons)
Austin Wonaemirri (Personal reasons - Melbourne were 'unable to adequately communicate with Aussie to determine his future intentions')
Relton Roberts ('struggled to cope with AFL life and discipline')
Rhan Hooper (family reasons, managed 54 games 56 goals over 4 seasons with brisbane and 1 with hawthorn. Had issues throughout.)
Rex Liddy ('no longer wanted to pursue an AFL career')
Albert Proud (Convicted of Assault / also admitted alcohol issues)
Troy Taylor (home sickness)
Tim Milera (could not cope with the rigorous AFL regimine)
Carl Peterson (unprofessional attitude, went missing)
Ash Sampi (a while ago now, last year was 06, didn't cope with afl by the end 78 games, 97 goals, arguably a good career, inc mark of the year 04)
Ben Cousins - long, succesful career, missed 08, ?some of 07
michael gardiner - stayed in the game during his rumoured/alleged 'troubles'. Was well and truly past it due to injury (not included)
nathan ablett (retired after 3 years, missed another 3, came back for 1 but wasnt good enough. Didnt have a passion for the game
akermanis (long successful career. disliked within his club in the end, arguably too old anyway)
leon davis (long successful career, left for money, it backfired. Should still be playing)
Jaymie Graham (37 games in 4 years, 'personal reasons')
shannon cox (25 games in 3 seasons - lost the passion)
clayton collard (delisted after 1 year despite talent)
marty clarke (homesick, came back and may repay the pies)
simon tunbridge (homesick, back straight away for wce)
jayden schofield (personal issues, returned home)
Luke Power long, successful career, not in club's future plans
Dean Brogan "
James McDonald "
Chad Cornes "
Ben Hudson "
max rooke "
luke darcy "
matt primus "
James Clement - long and successful career, left to support his wife.
Heffernan - 10 year career before retiring
matt powell - lost motivation
nick davis - 150+ gamer, premiership player - not a total loss...
daniel motlop - good career
byron sumner - homesick/behaviour
steven gaertner - walked out

So tell me if you think the players in red are an accurate cross section of the cultural backgrounds of the entire AFL population. Are 10.5% (assuming this is the rough percentage of Indigenous AFL players) of the red players Indigenous? or maybe just a bit more than that.....

63% by my calculations.

Im sure there are many more 'white' footballers in recent times who have suffered the same fate, and this may bring the percentage down a tad, but it would still be a long way off 10.5%.

Now don't get me wrong, some of these players may also have 1 white parent, the comment which this debate has centred around, but i think it goes to show that Indigenous players are definitely more likely to leave the game prematurely for whatever reason, than the 'white' boys.

 

[Masto]

Lewis Broome. Probably would have got one more year on our list but went home to the bush.

 

[whattagun07]

So what you are saying is that you should have titled the thread "let's name all the aboriginal players who didn't work out at their club so we can prove that Matt Rendell was right"

Im trying to show that people have their head in the sand about the poor record of longevity in the game, of Indigenous players in recent times, due to 'not coping' and behavioural issues. His comment was very poor, no matter the context. But most definitely not a hangable offense. It really got to me that media commentators such as Brian Taylor on a 5aa interview, said something along the lines of... but what about cousins and fevola....they're not aboriginal...what about adam goodes...he has had a great career....etc etc
That is completely beside the point, Brian!. Rendell was talking about ensuring young players forge successful careers rather than falling victim to the system and its rigours.

 

[Souup]

Have no idea how it took 3 pages for McAdam to finally be mentioned, and only twice.

The guy kicked 23 goals in his first 3 games (which still stands as a record for goals in the first 3 debut games i believe), 38 goals in his first 6 games, 68 overall in that season (which was his first, and played only 17 games) as a small forward. Then he copped an elbow, which broke both sides of his jaw, and lead to him losing interest and desire to play footy. Only managed 19 more games for North, joined Collingwoods list in 1996 but didnt play a game for them.

The guy was a wizard, definitely left the game before he should have

 

[emuboy]

There were a number of talented players in the early 1990s whose careers just seemed to end for no apparent reason:

JIM WYND - Excellent midfielder aged in his 20s who had played every game for Fitzroy in 1991-94 inclusive, he was delisted by the Lions at the conclusion of the 1994 season, despite most of Fitzroy's experienced players having already departed. Even more strange, Wynd was not drafted by a rival AFL team.

BRAD TUNBRIDGE - This West Australian ruckman was a pillar of strength for the struggling Sydney Swans in the very early 90s, but he lost his place in the team in mid 1993 and never regained it, before being delisted at the end of that season.

JOHN HUTTON - Talented No 1 draft pick in 1991, Hutton played three seasons for three struggling clubs (Bears 1992, Swans 1993, Dockers 1995) and showed good form for each of them, but only lasted a season at each team.

DANNY NOONAN - Three very good seasons for the Bears in 1991-93 was not enough for this Tasmanian utility to be retained on the Queenslanders' list for 1994, nor to be recruited by another AFL team.

Another case, more recent, that always puzzled me was that of Andrew Leoncelli. The experienced Melbourne player was one minute a part of Melbourne's 2003 team, and the next minute he wasn't. He seemed to just vanish from the face of the earth.

 

[Natho]

Jayden "All bark, no bite" Schofield.

Upon being drafted he told Barry Hall that hall was "no longer the toughest, meanest guy at the club."

Sledged John Anthony in a trial game along the lines of "no wonder Collingwood traded you, you are shit".

Then in a vfl game vs Casey he told Fev (who was going through his own shit at the time) that he was "A fat sack of crap with no wife and no life".

Played a couple of unspectacular games, including trying to fight Kurt Tippett on debut (Schoey is built like Hayden Ballantyne).



Then just quit and ****ed off home.

The Jack Anthony sledge was pretty funny.

Cupido, Hooper and Luke Darcy come to mind as players who left before there time.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Jaymie Graham (West Coast, 'personal reasons*', 25)

*Graham left to look after his younger sister in 2008. Continued to play in the WAFL and last year had that horrific knee injury.

Watching some '06 games recently.
That kid was good.

 

[quotemokc]

Darcy Daniher - Injuries

Potentially Scott Gumbleton

 

[The Chiefton]

The Jack Anthony sledge was pretty funny.

Cupido, Hooper and Luke Darcy come to mind as players who left before there time.

Darcy was 32 and finished. He was nowhere near quick enough to compete at the highest level anymore, as his body had failed him one to many times throughout the latter stages of his career.

 

[ManOfClay]

The Jack Anthony sledge was pretty funny.

Was out of place coming from an 18 year old taken with a pick over 50 who was yet to play a game.

 

[Thommo 42]

We didn't trade him either, he walked in the PSD.

Jokes on him and Freo though

 

[Deaneus!]

Have no idea how it took 3 pages for McAdam to finally be mentioned, and only twice.

The guy kicked 23 goals in his first 3 games (which still stands as a record for goals in the first 3 debut games i believe), 38 goals in his first 6 games, 68 overall in that season (which was his first, and played only 17 games) as a small forward. Then he copped an elbow, which broke both sides of his jaw, and lead to him losing interest and desire to play footy. Only managed 19 more games for North, joined Collingwoods list in 1996 but didnt play a game for them.

The guy was a wizard, definitely left the game before he should have

I remember his debut season, and he was UNSTOPPABLE. The most dominant period by a player I can remember. No one could do anything against him - no one had a clue - he simply debuted in a different class.

I even remember him somehow ending up at the goal line with the ball in his hand, and not even kicking it through for the goal, first he taunted the defenders to come at him for ages (they ran hard but were miles away), then he kicked it through. It would have been showboating for anyone else but he was so good it was appropriate.

 

[UpForGrabs]

Im trying to show that people have their head in the sand about the poor record of longevity in the game, of Indigenous players in recent times, due to 'not coping' and behavioural issues. His comment was very poor, no matter the context. But most definitely not a hangable offense. It really got to me that media commentators such as Brian Taylor on a 5aa interview, said something along the lines of... but what about cousins and fevola....they're not aboriginal...what about adam goodes...he has had a great career....etc etc
That is completely beside the point, Brian!. Rendell was talking about ensuring young players forge successful careers rather than falling victim to the system and its rigours.

I moved to Melbourne in early 2004 and stayed until 2005. I moved back to Perth due to homesickness. I loved living in Melbourne and there was no behaviour issues for me, but when I weighed up the pros and cons I decided my life was back in Perth. I left a high-paying job to go home and take some time off. For me, my life was more important to me than my career.

Now, I'm practically albino, but no one put my decision down to me not being able to cope. It was just a choice I made. No one tried to come up with ways for me to be able to stay in Melbourne and keep my job.

I think Clubs and supporters are more interested in ladder positioning than the happiness of their players. But more on point - how about we list the names of aboriginal players who DIDN'T have the issues we're talking about.

That would be a much longer list.

 

[showtime1090]

On a completely unrelated note does anyone know the number of indigenous players, and the percentage of which, that indigenous players make up the total player population, and to what degree (if any) these figures have fluctuated over recent years?

......

Ok, so most people will see the intent of this thread. Going out on a limb, I am predicting that this thread may, with everyone's contribution (not just mine), highlight that in recent years, Indigenous players are indeed (as a percentage of the population of AFL players), more likely to encounter difficulties with 'coping' with AFL life, be that the intense training regimine, being away from home, or having their personal lives, and other indiscretions (however major or minor), highlighted and put under the media's, and society's microscope, resulting in the end of their AFL career.

Ratio of Aboriginal players to all players who played one or more senior games:

1993 3.19%
1994 4.91%
1995 5.44%
1996 6.11%
1997 6.42%
1998 6.19%
1999 6.77%
2000 7.45%
2001 6.96%
2002 7.13%
2003 7.00%
2004 7.57%
2005 8.48%
2006 9.11%
2007 10.70%
2008 10.28%
2009 11.83%
2010 11.17%
2011 10.47%

In 2012, 67 of 718 (9.33%) listed players are identified as Aboriginal by the AFL (79/841 = 9.39% including rookies).

 

[Partridge]

Ok, so most people will see the intent of this thread. Going out on a limb, I am predicting that this thread may, with everyone's contribution (not just mine), highlight that in recent years, Indigenous players are indeed (as a percentage of the population of AFL players), more likely to encounter difficulties with 'coping' with AFL life, be that the intense training regimine, being away from home, or having their personal lives, and other indiscretions (however major or minor), highlighted and put under the media's, and society's microscope, resulting in the end of their AFL career.

You forgot one - "getting paid bucketloads of money".

 

[Partridge]

a few comments.

Mark Bos retired because Gary Ablett gave him a hiding in the Geelong social club one night.

Adrian Mcadam owns this thread.

Story I always heard was Ablett knocked him out at training. You see them shake hands after the 1989 Prelim. Very frosty but they still do it.

I don't think Ablett had any bearing on Bos retiring at all.

 

[Partridge]

Have no idea how it took 3 pages for McAdam to finally be mentioned, and only twice.

The guy kicked 23 goals in his first 3 games (which still stands as a record for goals in the first 3 debut games i believe), 38 goals in his first 6 games, 68 overall in that season (which was his first, and played only 17 games) as a small forward. Then he copped an elbow, which broke both sides of his jaw, and lead to him losing interest and desire to play footy. Only managed 19 more games for North, joined Collingwoods list in 1996 but didnt play a game for them.

The guy was a wizard, definitely left the game before he should have

Talent yes, heart no. Struck me as soft immediately.

It's a tough game. It's a good thing that it weeds out those who aren't up to it.

 

[Pottering]

About 10.5% of listed players are indigenous, but what's a far more important stat is what percentage actually make it.

Recruiters have been searching far and wide and recruiting a much higher percentage of indigenous boys comparitively to the population, which highlights a recruiting strategy.

I don't think you've got this right. What you seem to be describing is, in statistical terms, over sampling. That is "The deliberate selection of individuals of a rare type in order to obtain reasonably precise estimates of the properties of this type. In a population which includes such a rare type, a random sample of the entire population might result in very few (or none) of these individuals being selected. Oversampling implies the deliberate sampling of a much higher proportion of this type than of the rest of the population." In the statistical world the Indigenous population is often oversampled because their relatively small numbers mean they might miss out in a truly random sample.

You are suggesting that recruiters are picking up more Indigenous than their proportion of the population as a strategy. This may be to compensate for a higher drop out rate or to unearth some diamonds in the rough.

Contrary to this theory the obvious reason that a much higher percentage of Indigenous players being selected than their numbers might indicate surely comes down to one basic reason, ability. That's it in a nutshell. The Indigenous cohort presents footballers of AFL potential greater than their numbers might indicate, all things being equal. This also means that the non-Indigenous cohort is under-represented.

The strategy is the same as it's always been, recruit the best prospects.

Why are Indigenous players comparatively better prospects? Could be any number of factors. An obvious one might be that a higher proportion of young Indigenous men play footy, compared to the non-Indigenous? I think that is almost certainly correct. Socio-economic status is another factor. Many sports around the world show this. Some sports which require a lot of money to develop in such as golf and swimming almost always have those from higher socio-economic backgrounds do well. Other sports like boxing are the reverse. Indigenous men often have only a few choices re sport whereas other non-Indigenous often have a wider choice, ie players choosing between AFL and cricket.

Whatever the reasons, the strategy of recruiters is not to simply choose large numbers of Indigenous players in the hope a few might make it, but to look at the all potential draftees, Indigenous an non-Indigenous and select those they think best meet their club's requirements.

 

[Minotaur]

So what you are saying is that you should have titled the thread "let's name all the aboriginal players who didn't work out at their club so we can prove that Matt Rendell was right"

And disregard any cases that disprove my racist

 

[Prem87]

Ben Cousins. Would have won the 2007 Brownlow medal if didn't get caught. Was in that good of form in the preseason despite all the drugs he took. Such a shame.

 

[jonesy86]

Steve McKee was a serviceable ruckman... until they changed the ruck rules and then he was like **** on a bull.