Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

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Australia having a nuclear-powered submarine fleet is way more valuable to the nation's long-term strategic needs than soothing France's ego or maybe keeping some jobs in the Adelaide rustbelt.

The govt absolutely did the right thing in accessing UK/USA nuclear sub tech the moment it became a realistic possibility.

The contract with the French has a clause that covers breaking the contract. We act like a mature nation and pay the required penalties.

And leave the high school histronics to the French and ABC.
 
Johnny Dalmas said:
Australia having a nuclear-powered submarine fleet is way more valuable to the nation's long-term strategic needs than soothing France's ego or maybe keeping some jobs in the Adelaide rustbelt.

The govt absolutely did the right thing in accessing UK/USA nuclear sub tech the moment it became a realistic possibility.

The contract with the French has a clause that covers breaking the contract. We act like a mature nation and pay the required penalties.

And leave the high school histronics to the French and ABC.
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The French are a bunch of whingy little bitches. They are irrelevant.
 

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prpl_jss said:
Numbers mean nothing when all you're going to do is flee any significant conflict.
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Our most significant military anniversary was a loss and retreat and we just fought a 20 year war that we didn't win. Oh, and Vietnam. France is far more significant on the world stage than we will ever be.
 
Bicco said:
Our most significant military anniversary was a loss and retreat and we just fought a 20 year war that we didn't win. Oh, and Vietnam. France is far more significant on the world stage than we will ever be.
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I'm not comparing France to us. I'm comparing them to the UK and the US.

Not even in the same league.
 
Bicco said:
They're permanent members of the UN security council and a nuclear power. They're in exactly the same league.
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They don't project much power in the Indo-Pacific and are unlikely to play a significant role in the future of the South China Sea.

If we were worried about projecting power in Europe, sure they would be highly relevant to us. But given where we perceive our strategic interests to be, they become far less relevant.
 
Johnny Dalmas said:
Australia having a nuclear-powered submarine fleet is way more valuable to the nation's long-term strategic needs than soothing France's ego or maybe keeping some jobs in the Adelaide rustbelt.

The govt absolutely did the right thing in accessing UK/USA nuclear sub tech the moment it became a realistic possibility.

The contract with the French has a clause that covers breaking the contract. We act like a mature nation and pay the required penalties.

And leave the high school histronics to the French and ABC.
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Doesn't change the fact that we have an imbecile for a PM.
 
Johnny Dalmas said:
France's reaction to our strategic decisions is their problem not ours. Especially when a big part of Micron's immature pleading is for his own petty domestic political needs.
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True to form Morrison lied to cover up his poor handling of a situation and then compounded the lie by releasing private texts something that is a big no in world politics. As a politician Morrison is a dangerous joke.
 

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Johnny Dalmas said:
They don't project much power in the Indo-Pacific and are unlikely to play a significant role in the future of the South China Sea.

If we were worried about projecting power in Europe, sure they would be highly relevant to us. But given where we perceive our strategic interests to be, they become far less relevant.
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France have a bunch or current and former colonies in both the Indian and Pacific Oceans. So that point is wrong. Morrison has offended our biggest trading partner in China and now 3rd biggest economy in Europe. You think our farmers will be happy with that when it comes to negotiating new trade deals?
 
Bicco said:
France have a bunch or current and former colonies in both the Indian and Pacific Oceans. So that point is wrong. Morrison has offended our biggest trading partner in China and now 3rd biggest economy in Europe. You think our farmers will be happy with that when it comes to negotiating new trade deals?
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France has possessions in the the Indo-Pacific sure. But so what?

Thinking that:
a) mere colonies means that France is an Indo-Pacific power, or
b) that Europe is a strategic priority for Austalia
is 19th and 20th century thinking.

In the 21st century we aren't, thank God, likely to sacrifice another generation of Diggers on the Somme supporting France and our European allies.

Any future military role that France will have in the Indo-Pacific will be because of the capability of their white water navy not because they speak French in New Caledonia.

This capability is basically about the ability to safely operate in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and the South China Sea using their nuclear submarines and an aircraft carriers. That is the power France can project in our region of the world.

And here's the thing: even though can can operate it our part of the world they aren't nearly as capable as other nations, such as USA, China, India, Japan, UK (better navy). When we have a nuclear submarine fleet and complete the other, already announced, parts of our navy build-out we will have a more capable Indo-Pacific navy that France (although no aircraft carriers).

So I stand by my comment France doesn't project much power in the Indo-Pacifjc. Certainly, we have allies with much more capability in the Indo-Pacific.

And we got a better offer: the chance to get nuclear sub tech from UK/USA is a way better outcome than conventional subs procured from the French.

For our strategic future the decision is a no brainer, and after all the stuff ups we have had with defence procurement over the years, we should be celebrating this as finally a govt makina a good decision. And that is before we consider the other procurements that could flow from AUKUS such as easier access to digital weapons tech.
 
JBMAN said:
Whether you like him or otherwise, the decision was absolutely correct/
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When was Australia going to get the French submarines? How much were Australians going to be involved in building them?
When is Australia going to get the nuclear submarines? Are Australians going to be involved in building them?
How much has Morrison’s deceit affected our relations with other nations.

I would like to know more information before deciding on the correctness of the decision.
 
Taylor said:
We could keep burning cash on building a product that can't meet required specifications so it needed to be redesigned and costs more money.
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I'll make the point that I agree with the decision. Just that it was handled like a 13 year old relationship breakup. Surprised Morrison didn't get his friend to deliver a note saying 'you're dropped'.
 
Bicco said:
I'll make the point that I agree with the decision. Just that it was handled like a 13 year old relationship breakup. Surprised Morrison didn't get his friend to deliver a note saying 'you're dropped'.
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Is it possible that it's played up for local audiences when it was a simple contractual execution?
 
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