Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Square Peg]

He ignored the question as to whether he's a narcissist. And gave answers completely at odds with the observations of those that actually worked with the guy, like Bolton, who makes it clear he was not hard working but was thick with no geopolitical knowledge or desire to learn and obsessed with his own re-election.
That's not demonizing, that's facts.

 

[BanjoRules]

There are plenty of John Bolton's in the world with axes to grind.

Believe them if you will. I don't give a f**k.

I've seen enough of Jordon Peterson to appreciate and respect his credibility.

Also understand and agree with some of the criticisms against Trump.

 

[Square Peg]

Actually some of that Peterson response is straight out embarrassing bullshit for a qualified psychologist, to be frank. So being able to communicate with the working class proves you're not a psychopath? He needs to go back to school.

 

[Kram]

Yeah I mean Hitler communicated with the working class?!

 

[Taylor]

Yeah I mean Hitler communicated with the working class?!

I'd argue that it wasn't until there was an attack on their government building attributed to their political opposition by them that they seized control.

I am intentionally suggesting the narrative is flipped in reality.

If you consider the FBI a partisan organisation;

F.B.I. Had Informants in Proud Boys, Court Papers Suggest (Published 2022)

In filings in the seditious conspiracy case against members of the far-right group, defense lawyers claimed that information favorable to their clients was improperly withheld by the government until recently.

www.nytimes.com

The direct comparison is the aftermath of September 11th with the patriot act etc, but in a not serious way I think you can draw parallels to the Democratic use of January 6th to the national socialist german worker's party post Reichstag fire.

 

[myfreodom]

Does your religious types include Muslims ?

If they are proven guilty of something as bad as the systemic abuse of children then absolutely. But I'm not a fan of agnostics who treat people who have chosen a faith as if they are idiots either. Everyone should be entitled to choose whatever faith they want (and be who they are) without fear or persecution. Nobody should be claiming moral superiority either because there are countless horrific things that have been done in the name of every faith.

There is an inherent contradiction in the values of a conservative relating to this. Often the very first value mentioned in regard to conservatism is freedom or more specifically liberty. And yet we have a whole branch of conservatism (social) that is the antithesis to liberty. It is all about imposing restrictions on the rights of individuals. I've been trying to get my head around it? Does being a conservative mean liberty is very important but only for people who match the typical demographic and screw the rest? Or am I missing something here?

For me this gets to the heart of what I don't like about RW politics in the current world. True proponents of free speech understand the harm principle. We shouldn't allow people to use it as an idealistic buzzword - it needs to be part of a conversation that gets to the heart of what freedom means holistically. A Liberal party that stopped all the divisive politics, separated itself from the Church, and instead got back to fiscal responsibility and liberty for all could become quite a force imo. Fantasy or a possibility? And would both conservatives and moderates get behind it/support it if they did?

 

[Purple_Turtle]

A Liberal party that stopped all the divisive politics, separated itself from the Church, and instead got back to fiscal responsibility and liberty for all could become quite a force imo. Fantasy or a possibility? And would both conservatives and moderates get behind it/support it if they did?

I think the issue you'll find is the largest constituency in this country is what the UK call the "fund the NHS, hang the paedos" group. They're the opposite of your vision for the Liberal party; they're happy to see the introduction of price controls, nationalisation and trade protection, but they're patriotic, think the criminal justice system is too soft, and hold other socially conservative views.

This is from a study of British voters, but I imagine you'll find a similar dynamic in Australia:

So where actually is the “centre” in terms of attitudes? We can get a sense by looking at the median voter on each of the questions. On the economic axis, this person thinks that there’s “one law for rich and another for the poor” and that “ordinary working people” don’t get their fair share, while being on the fence when it comes to the merits of private enterprise.

On the cultural axis, our median voter thinks that efforts to achieve equality for ethnic minorities and women have gone far enough already, that young people don’t have enough respect for traditional British values, that crimes should attract stiffer punishments including the death penalty for some, although they also think that people should be more tolerant of those “who lead unconventional lives”.

The real centre of British politics may not be where you think

After a couple of years that have seen a seemingly endless string of new centrist parties, usually with more Twitter followers than voters, last week finally saw the formation of The Independent Group, which at the very least has MPs and, for now, a substantial media presence. Early polling on...

capx.co

A socially liberal economic dry Liberal party will be a perpetual opposition. The recipe for the Liberal parties success is the same as it ever was; building a broad coalition of the centre-right, including both classical liberals and conservatives.

 

[poshman]

He ignored the question as to whether he's a narcissist. And gave answers completely at odds with the observations of those that actually worked with the guy, like Bolton, who makes it clear he was not hard working but was thick with no geopolitical knowledge or desire to learn and obsessed with his own re-election.
That's not demonizing, that's facts.

Actually that is opinion of someone who had personal issues with trump.

 

[poshman]

If they are proven guilty of something as bad as the systemic abuse of children then absolutely. But I'm not a fan of agnostics who treat people who have chosen a faith as if they are idiots either. Everyone should be entitled to choose whatever faith they want (and be who they are) without fear or persecution. Nobody should be claiming moral superiority either because there are countless horrific things that have been done in the name of every faith.

There is an inherent contradiction in the values of a conservative relating to this. Often the very first value mentioned in regard to conservatism is freedom or more specifically liberty. And yet we have a whole branch of conservatism (social) that is the antithesis to liberty. It is all about imposing restrictions on the rights of individuals. I've been trying to get my head around it? Does being a conservative mean liberty is very important but only for people who match the typical demographic and screw the rest? Or am I missing something here?

For me this gets to the heart of what I don't like about RW politics in the current world. True proponents of free speech understand the harm principle. We shouldn't allow people to use it as an idealistic buzzword - it needs to be part of a conversation that gets to the heart of what freedom means holistically. A Liberal party that stopped all the divisive politics, separated itself from the Church, and instead got back to fiscal responsibility and liberty for all could become quite a force imo. Fantasy or a possibility? And would both conservatives and moderates get behind it/support it if they did?

What are those policies/politics?

 

[Square Peg]

Actually that is opinion of someone who had personal issues with trump.

I'm not talking about Bolton's opinions, I am talking about direct Trump quotes which show his ignorance and idiocy. Do you think Bolton was fabricating these and Trump never said them?

 

[BanjoRules]

If they are proven guilty of something as bad as the systemic abuse of children then absolutely. But I'm not a fan of agnostics who treat people who have chosen a faith as if they are idiots either. Everyone should be entitled to choose whatever faith they want (and be who they are) without fear or persecution. Nobody should be claiming moral superiority either because there are countless horrific things that have been done in the name of every faith.

There is an inherent contradiction in the values of a conservative relating to this. Often the very first value mentioned in regard to conservatism is freedom or more specifically liberty. And yet we have a whole branch of conservatism (social) that is the antithesis to liberty. It is all about imposing restrictions on the rights of individuals. I've been trying to get my head around it? Does being a conservative mean liberty is very important but only for people who match the typical demographic and screw the rest? Or am I missing something here?

For me this gets to the heart of what I don't like about RW politics in the current world. True proponents of free speech understand the harm principle. We shouldn't allow people to use it as an idealistic buzzword - it needs to be part of a conversation that gets to the heart of what freedom means holistically. A Liberal party that stopped all the divisive politics, separated itself from the Church, and instead got back to fiscal responsibility and liberty for all could become quite a force imo. Fantasy or a possibility? And would both conservatives and moderates get behind it/support it if they did?

Firstly and I say this with respect, I see your home politically as being mainly on the left albeit with one view namely fiscal constraint that is rightwing.

I know you have said before that you have moved further left in recent times and certainly you appear to hold ultra progressive views with your views on white privilege, anti Christianity, minorities, DEI etc. A fair few of these progressives would like to see christianity completely erased from the earth.

We seem to have agreement that to break down divisions in our society is important but I strongly am of the opinion that the DEI path has exacerbated not reduced our divisions along gender, skin colour, sexual preferences etc etc and any other group that progressives feel are oppressed.

Try asking a progressive "have Muslims got it right with women ?" and see how they stumble between being Islamophobic or misogynistic.

With that in mind i'm still wondering why you are still hung up on what the liberal party do at all given you don't vote for them.

I think the liberals at a National and a State level are a mess for different reasons to you.

The WA state liberals are devoid of quality leadership and still hamstrung with the toxic impact of power brokers in the party. Have to say my knowledge and interest in state politics is very low.

Both the liberal state and federal parties have strayed too far to the center and beyond in my mind. I'm in the "liberals wont win being labor lite or out tealing the teals" camp.

I agree with Tony Abbotts comments on what the liberal party should stand for to achieve future success, namely :

As a liberal support lower taxes, small government and great freedom.

As a conservative support the family, small business and the institutions and values that have stood the test of time.

As a patriot acknowledge that Australia is the best country to live on earth and to keep it that way.

 

[BanjoRules]

I'm not talking about Bolton's opinions, I am talking about direct Trump quotes which show his ignorance and idiocy. Do you think Bolton was fabricating these and Trump never said them?

You are not talking about Bolton's opinions ?

He ignored the question as to whether he's a narcissist. And gave answers completely at odds with the observations of those that actually worked with the guy, like Bolton, who makes it clear he was not hard working but was thick with no geopolitical knowledge or desire to learn and obsessed with his own re-election.
That's not demonizing, that's facts.

 

[Square Peg]

You are not talking about Bolton's opinions ?

Bolton's views, that he supports by providing direct quotes from Trump's mouth to show Bolton's views are well formed by both his own observations and the utterings and actions of the President. So unless you are suggesting Bolton made those quotes up, I would suggest his view of Trump might have more credence than Jordan Peterson's

 

[E Shed]

Bolton's views, that he supports by providing direct quotes from Trump's mouth to show Bolton's views are well formed by both his own observations and the utterings and actions of the President. So unless you are suggesting Bolton made those quotes up, I would suggest his view of Trump might have more credence than Jordan Peterson's

Or his niece who’s also a psychologist.

 

[BanjoRules]

Bolton's views, that he supports by providing direct quotes from Trump's mouth to show Bolton's views are well formed by both his own observations and the utterings and actions of the President. So unless you are suggesting Bolton made those quotes up, I would suggest his view of Trump might have more credence than Jordan Peterson's

He ignored the question as to whether he's a narcissist. And gave answers completely at odds with the observations of those that actually worked with the guy, like Bolton, who makes it clear he was not hard working but was thick with no geopolitical knowledge or desire to learn and obsessed with his own re-election.
That's not demonizing, that's facts.

Bolton's comments haven't aged well given Trumps demonstrated performance on the world stage.

Check out his work on the Abraham peace accords or his warning 4 years ago to the Germans on the problem with becoming dependent on Russian energy if it doesn't change course.

Not hard working - that comment is laughable. Again, agree with some of the criticism but not the TDS.

Your attack on Jordon Peterson is sad particularly given his work on depression, anxiety and male suicide.

 

[poshman]

I'm not talking about Bolton's opinions, I am talking about direct Trump quotes which show his ignorance and idiocy. Do you think Bolton was fabricating these and Trump never said them?

I don't think we can know. What I would also say, and this is true of anyone who has held office or any job, people say things that sound dumb sometimes. Bolton has an ax to grind that is clear. How much we should weigh that against what he is claiming is difficult to know.

People here who criticised Trump for being an idiot will say nothing of Biden and his many Gaffes.

Perhaps the worst thing about all this is he is running again. I hope he loses in the primaries.

 

[poshman]

Bolton's comments haven't aged well given Trumps demonstrated performance on the world stage.

Check out his work on the Abraham peace accords or his warning 4 years ago to the Germans on the problem with becoming dependent on Russian energy if it doesn't change course.

Not hard working - that comment is laughable. Again, agree with some of the criticism but not the TDS.

Your attack on Jordon Peterson is sad particularly given his work on depression, anxiety and male suicide.

Foreign policy is an area Trump should be give a HD in. The warnings against energy dependence with Russia alone should see him heralded by even those who hate him. Will ideological glasses come off? Doubtful.

Biden, well he cut oil for the planet, and then goes begging to other nations and has weakened the west.

The worst part of that logic is that unless the demand decreases the supply will be required. So instead of having supply from cleaner producers we are getting it from dirtier producers.

 

[Kram]

 

[poshman]

Dresses like a real estate agent... gets dressed up as a Yak and goes under the mountain...

He gets humiliated at a breakfast and two years later takes the guys job.

HAHAHAA

 

[Square Peg]

I don't think we can know. What I would also say, and this is true of anyone who has held office or any job, people say things that sound dumb sometimes. Bolton has an ax to grind that is clear. How much we should weigh that against what he is claiming is difficult to know.

People here who criticised Trump for being an idiot will say nothing of Biden and his many Gaffes.

Perhaps the worst thing about all this is he is running again. I hope he loses in the primaries.

Yes but you're one of the sensible ones that can separate sympathy for the genuine grievances he tapped into from the manifest inadequacies of the man himself. For others I swear it's a cult.

It wasn't just Bolton. Tillerson, Kelly, McMaster and other diehard Republicans all recognised his lazy ignorance and refusal to read his briefs to inform himself. Three months of his diaries were leaked to Vanity Fair for goodness sake, he was a disaster. As these people and others have made clear, Trump was not the first president to be elected with no grasp of foreign policy (see Bill Clinton for example). But he was the first president and hopefully the last to refuse to inform himself and/or trust others with more knowledge than him.

Biden is clearly in the early stages of dementia and can't function at the required level, but I am unaware of his behaviour approaching that of Trump.

The accumulation of evidence is overwhelming that Trump was and is unsuited to the office of President

 

[wahooo]

Foreign policy is an area Trump should be give a HD in. The warnings against energy dependence with Russia alone should see him heralded by even those who hate him. Will ideological glasses come off? Doubtful.

Love a bit of broken clock spotting.

 

[poshman]

Love a bit of broken clock spotting.

You just cant give credit can you. He was laughed at and ridiculed and he was right.

 

[poshman]

Yes but you're one of the sensible ones that can separate sympathy for the genuine grievances he tapped into from the manifest inadequacies of the man himself. For others I swear it's a cult.

It wasn't just Bolton. Tillerson, Kelly, McMaster and other diehard Republicans all recognised his lazy ignorance and refusal to read his briefs to inform himself. Three months of his diaries were leaked to Vanity Fair for goodness sake, he was a disaster. As these people and others have made clear, Trump was not the first president to be elected with no grasp of foreign policy (see Bill Clinton for example). But he was the first president and hopefully the last to refuse to inform himself and/or trust others with more knowledge than him.

Biden is clearly in the early stages of dementia and can't function at the required level, but I am unaware of his behaviour approaching that of Trump.

The accumulation of evidence is overwhelming that Trump was and is unsuited to the office of President

I agree there is a cult like following of Trump.

I also think there is of every president and attacks that are way out there or when they are not given due credit only makes the cultish ones more so. Did Trump not read briefings? Yes, he often didn't. Did he rely on team to achieve things? Yes he definitely did. There are many who have talked about that and how he changed his mind when briefed. Not all the time but sometimes. Did he have a bureaucracy in washington that was working against him? Yes. Whenever the next republican is voted in they need to clean house in a serious way.


Biden has the slowest schedule of any president in living memory. He can barely read, struggles to do more than a couple of things a week, doesn't know where he is and sometimes who he is talking to. The press would be all over it if they weren't so left leaning. His behaviour has gone way beyond anything any other president has done because he simply cannot do the job. He should be in care, at home or somewhere with people who love him. The white house and press are so bad they change official transcripts to cover his mistakes - that in itself is shocking and an affront to history. He has seemingly changed US foreign policy numerous times only to be constantly walked back. He was never fit for the job. He is less fit now. I can say all of that without going into the corruption side of things, I will leave that, but it is clear to anyone being non partisan that he should be in a care facility.

Trump is not suffering health wise like Biden. But would be 82 at the end of the next term. Insanity to vote him or Biden in.

I would like to see a Desantis or another Republican vs a Mayor Pete/Kamala/ or I would have said Tulsi but she isn't there anymore.

 

[wahooo]

You just cant give credit can you. He was laughed at and ridiculed and he was right.

In case you aren't familiar with the saying 'even a broken clock is right twice a day', let me explain it to you.

It means that even dumb/silly people are sometimes right. My reference to the phrase implies that Trump was right. He was right about that particular point. I'm pretty sure suggesting that Trump was right, is giving him credit.

All that was intended by my comment was to suggest that just because Trump was right about one matter of foreign policy, it doesn't mean that he should be given a 'HD' in it. I was giving credit but not extending that credit as far as you would.

My apologies for trying to have a laugh in the process.

 

[poshman]

In case you aren't familiar with the saying 'even a broken clock is right twice a day', let me explain it to you.

It means that even dumb/silly people are sometimes right. My reference to the phrase implies that Trump was right. He was right about that particular point. I'm pretty sure suggesting that Trump was right, is giving him credit.

All that was intended by my comment was to suggest that just because Trump was right about one matter of foreign policy, it doesn't mean that he should be given a 'HD' in it. I was giving credit but not extending that credit as far as you would.

My apologies for trying to have a laugh in the process.

I knew what the phrase meant. Condescending much?