Port Magpies - Greatest club in Aust ?

[eastaugh36]

jub jub, i am not talking about the power, I am talking about the magpies, the majority of victorians wouldnt understand the dominance and aura that this club has around it, I have been many times to games with my friends and brother who supports them, and port will be down 6 goals in the last term yet still win ! It is just undescribable, such as the prelim final in 97 or 98, unbelievable, I never say its over against port in a match even if we are 8 goals up in the last term .
Players just want to play for them, look at their recruits for 2001 - Ryan O'connor and Tony Brown, they will be a powerhouse yet again in 2001

 

[ptw]

tiger_of_old

I disagree.

Each of the clubs in the SANFL have essentially the same resoucres. They have financial resoucres and they have a zone from which they can get players.

Port's finances are not the strongest in the league and at times the club has been in some trouble. Its zone has been reduced systematically over time due to the clubs success. So you put 10 clubs in a comp, each with about the same resources, and 1 of them wins the flag every 3 years. Why ???

It can only come down to the "club", the way it is run and its culture of success. I am not talking about the "team" here...clearly if Carlton ha played in the SANFL with their VFL resources they would have been very successful but that it not a fair comparison. Carlton also play in a competition with a given level of resources and until recently a zone from which to recruit players...they have been quite successful, but not as successful as Port have...in its comp with its resources.

Essentially you give clubs a given set of resources to win a flag...make these about equal in the comp you are in...and then lt them fight it out. The best "club" will win.

Port have not been the best team in the country but I think there is a fair arguement that they have been the most successful club.

ptw

 

[The invisible mullet]

They picked up Ryan O'Connor and Tony Brown? I am in awe of their recruiting department. I hope they are prepared to cop a large food bill.

 

[Carey_is_King]

PTW is right in saying it is about a "culture of success". It counts for a lot, in sport and in business.
There can be no denying that Port are the most successful football club in Australia. What cannot be said is that because of their 30-odd premierships in the SAFL, they are therefore "better" than, say, Carlton or Essendon.
Two different leagues, two different standards of competition.

Why is it that Port supporters want to prattle on with this stuff on the general board ? It sounds like a cry for help to me.
Why don't you talk to each other about this ? We don't hear Fremantle supporters introducing subjects relative to their history. (South, East, whatever)

PS Yes, I know, Easty started it.
------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

[This message has been edited by Carey_is_King (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
PTW is right in saying it is about a "culture of success". It counts for a lot, in sport and in business.
There can be no denying that Port are the most successful football club in Australia. What cannot be said is that because of their 30-odd premierships in the SAFL, they are therefore "better" than, say, Carlton or Essendon.
Two different leagues, two different standards of competition.

Why is it that Port supporters want to prattle on with this stuff on the general board ? It sounds like a cry for help to me.
Why don't you talk to each other about this ? We don't hear Fremantle supporters introducing subjects relative to their history. (South, East, whatever)

PS Yes, I know, Easty started it.

Port people are proud of their club CIK, no less than Essendon or Carlton,
The answer as to why we talk about Ports achievements is no different to why Essendon or Carlton talk about their achievements, we dont see you calling them a
" Cry for Help ". It is irrelevant to Port supporters as to whether others dont like what we have achieved or our passion for letting everyone know.

We have a century of catching up to do.

Fremantle have nothing to do with Port ...cant see where you draw the analogy from or why. ?

Fremantle have absolutely nothing to do with East Fremantle or South Fremantle football clubs, It was not born out of these clubs nor represents these clubs, The Dockers is a stand alone club born out of a concept, in exactly the principle as the Crows or West Coast....You know that. It represents Fremantle as a Franchise club of the AFL taking its name from the district, not from or on behalf or out of the two Westar clubs.

Port Adelaide have been a football club since 1870, albeit in another comp until 1997.

PA1870

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
PTW is right in saying it is about a "culture of success". It counts for a lot, in sport and in business.
There can be no denying that Port are the most successful football club in Australia. What cannot be said is that because of their 30-odd premierships in the SAFL, they are therefore "better" than, say, Carlton or Essendon.
Two different leagues,

Why is it that Port supporters want to prattle on with this stuff on the general board ?
Why don't you talk to each other about this ?
PS Yes, I know, Easty started it.

Port as a team are not better than Carlton or Essendon, however as you have so rightly stated...They are the most successful football CLUB in Australia.

and secondly this is the first time you have EVER mentioned anything about Port people ' Prattling on " about their club.. You have all of a sudden woken up in the morning and seen fit to say that our views are not relevant to the general chat...HA! despite the interest the Port posts have generated and the replies ...Dozens, in fact hundreds ...including scores by YOU, many of which have been sterling in their nature I might ad.

PA1870

 

[the Green Lantern]

By chief Football writer of the Advertiser MichaelAngelo Rucci.
ADVERTISER FRIDAY AUG 11 2000.
The Port Adelaide Football Club has reaffirmed its name by dumping "PORT POWER" from it's logo and club song.
The AFL club also emphasised its history dates back to 1870- and not 1997 when it joined the AFL and discarded its black and white strip and magpie nickname to avoid a clash with Collingwood.
Port President Greg Boulton last night unveiled a new logo,simplifying the AFL club's nickname to just " POWER ".
He said he hoped the new logo would end the tendency to call the team " Port Power " - and he clarified the AFL club was 130 years old, carrying the " proud tradition "established in the SANFL.
The announcement brought no protest from the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club, whose players continue to wear Port Adelaide's original black-and-white guernsey and
" Magpies " motif in the SANFL.
" It is only appropriate and proper that they reaffirm they are the ' Port Adelaide Football Club' and have been since 1870 ' Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club Chief Executive Paul Belton said.
We are the Magpies and they are the Power.
" We have had, for the past three years, and always will have, the role of continuing the Magpies' traditiions in the SANFL.
" The Port Adelaide Football Club in the AFL has the birthright of the club formed in 1870.
" We share the same heritage and history.
" One club - the Power - has the task of developing Port Adelaide's traditions in the AFL. We as the Magpies have the responsibility to continue the club's heritage in the SANFL.
The Port Adelaide Football Club added teal to its jumpers and adopted " Power " as its nickname when it entered the AFL in 1997 to appease Collingwood.
In the same year, the " Port AdelaideMagpies Football Club " was established for the SANFL competition.
Mr. Boulton said last night's announcement was designed to quash the widespread public perception that it was " Port Power " playing in the AFL, and not " Port Adelaide".
"Back on August 31, 1995 - when we launched our guernseys, logo and nickname for the AFL," he said.
" We are Port Adelaide, as we have been since 1870 when the club was formed. We do not accept being referred to as the " Port Power Football Club ".
" We have refined our logo to ensure we are always known as Port Adelaide ". Port's clarification of its name came amid rumours on radio yesterday morning that the club had registered two new names - " Adelaide Power " and " Southern Power ".
The new logo ephasises the club's nickname is Power - thename its supporters use when chanting at AFL games.
Slight changes have also been m,ade to the fist and lightning bolt on the logo to give " more strength " to the club's image.
Port's board and management have been working hard since mid-1999 to change the logo, which has required permission from the AFL.
Mr. boulton said the original logo had incorporated the word " Port " above " Power " as a throwback to the club's traditional names as " Port ".
" Unfortunately, it led to many people calling the club ' Port Power ' and that was just not acceptable he said....

 

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870:
Port as a team are not better than Carlton or Essendon, however as you have so rightly stated...They are the most successful football CLUB in Australia.

What if some country league club is more successful than Port? Do they have claim to the title of "most successful club in Australia"?

[This message has been edited by Same Old's (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

[the Green Lantern]

Originally posted by Same Old's:
What if some country league club is more successful than Port? Do they have claim to the title of "most successful club in Australia"?

[This message has been edited by Same Old's (edited 01 February 2001).]

Same Olds,
I cant see the relevance of where your headed with that question.

We are talking about a history of Australian football that represented the three Major football leagues, WAFL , SANFL , VFL. We are talking equivalent league football
not country leagues ?

Now Port are no longer part of the SANFL and are in the new national comp along with the founding clubs of the VFL.

The SANFL is as different today as it was in 1980 as the AFL was from the VFL in 1980.

The SANFL was much closer in standard to the VFL through out the history of both leagues, but is now as far distant to the AFL as the old VFL was.

PA1870

 

[ptw]

Same Old's

yes...I would accept that.

Normally Port phrase it as "the most successful major league club" or "the most successful senior club" but I would not have a problem with a country team being labelled the most successful "club"


ptw

 

[eastaugh36]

for gods sake ! port magpies are still in the same comp they were in 1980 ! The only change is that they have another club competing in the AFL

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

1. You are prattling on about Port Adelaide circa SAFL or SANFL on a website created to discuss AFL football, so CIK is correct - not the right forum.

2. Calling SANFL VFL and WAFL equivalent leagues is like calling the National Soccer League in AUstralia the equivalent of European Soccer Leagues you twit.
The population in Victoria is treble SA and WA at least, and has always been that way, and the bulk of the best players played in the larger leagues eg the Premier League or Serie A.

So therefore, on you innate logic, if an Australian club were as successful as Liverpool or Manchester United in terms of Championships won, it could then claim to be the greatest club in the world despite the fact it didn't compete at the highest level.

You my friend are blinded by your passion for your football club - the most successful club in SANFL football yes, but by your logic, if a country club, for example Warrnambool, who has won 14 premierships in fifty years, is almost as successful as Port Adelaide, it cannot be considered to be as successful.... yet Port Adelaide's record can be compared to those of the VFL - a much stronger comp.

Wake up and smell the roses.


[This message has been edited by kymhodgemansmo (edited 02 February 2001).]

 

[ptw]

kymdrongo...

who ?????

oh...and let me get this right.....

it is OK to prattle on for 1700 posts on who can get to the top of the page, or have an entire post dedicated to how many posts we can do in our spare time, or single parents, or jokes, or 5 threads which somehow always get back to whether top spot is recognised, or abuse hurled at or by G4E, favourite airlines, tennis, soccer, gridiron, cricket, whether Dubbo is beter than Whyalla, what the time is now in Boston.......

but talking about who might be the best football club in the country is not to be discussed here....it is not a Port Adelaide thing...if you think the most successful club is South Woonawoopwoop or Carlton or South Adelaide then say so.

wake up and smell the roses ? how about if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

ptw

 

[carb70]

Kymhodgemansmo, If there was a tosser of the year award, you would win it, even this early in the year.

Can you please tell me you f-ing know it all. If Ports history stand for nothing because it was acheived in the SANFL, then why are they the only established club to join the AFL?. I also had a look at the AFL fixtures and I couldn't see Warrnambool listed anywhere. In the last 50 years Port has averaged a premiership nearly every 2 seasons.

Your argument about Liverpool and Man United is as stupid as you are. Don't these 2 teams play in the English premier league, which is regarded as the 3rd strongest league in Europe after Italy and Spain. So in real terms these 2 clubs success was acheive in a league equivalent to the WAFL. So way do you take their records seriously.

[This message has been edited by carb70 (edited 02 February 2001).]

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

Serie A is the Italian competition dickhead.

And as for Liverpool and Man U, I was using them as a reference point for Carlton and Essendon.

And as for Warrnambool, I am merely stating that the SANFL doesn't compare to the VFL, and you continue to think it does, just as I dont think Warrnambool compares to POrt Adelaide.

And no Warrnambool is not in the AFL, or last time I looked it wasn't fool, however, Port has been for a number of years now with diddly squat success - so your bragging rights are not of consequence because they are based on a foundation of achievement in a lower rated comp.

A flag in your first six or seven years, a la the Crows or Eagles - now then we could have a reasoned argument .

And as for the footy discussion, I too am glad we are discussing football - refer to all of my posts - and am happy to debate the ridiculous title you are trying to crown yourselves with.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by kymhodgemansmo:
Serie A is the Italian competition dickhead.
.

Shit you go to the top of the class. What are you trying to prove. I'm sorry I named the country instead of the league. Let me finish by using some of your logic. Spanish Primera is the Spanish competition you dickhead. Also I hope you have found room on your mantle piece for your new award.

 

[ptw]

Kymthingyamejig....

you are hung up on the "greatest team" vs "greatest club".

As a club Carlton are no more significant than Eaglehawk. They just happen to play in one competition due to the good luck that they we one of a few clubs in Melbourne in the late 1800's and had some success which put them in the VFL.

They have had some great sides and on average these sides have clearly been better than Port...but that is not the question. They are still a club the same as Port and as such the 2 are comparable regardless of the competition they are playing in.

Now Carlton had a certain amount of resources (money / zone) and had a certain amout of success. Port also had a certain amount of resrouces and significantly more success. So why are not Port a more successful "club" than Carlton ???


ptw

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

You are as dumb and as predictable as they say - I was giving you more credit.

The personal insults start immediately, and what was the point again - Liverpool and Manchester United played in the WAFL.

Take the analogy on face value, and you may understand the point.

But how could I expect such a self absorbed, uneducated and unreasonable individual to do such a thing.

Better subscribe to the KISS theory for you in future eh?

Good on ya Carb - you are the mouthpiece of the plebs.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by kymhodgemansmo:
You are as dumb and as predictable as they say - I was giving you more credit.

The personal insults start immediately, and what was the point again - Liverpool and Manchester United played in the WAFL.

Take the analogy on face value, and you may understand the point.

But how could I expect such a self absorbed, uneducated and unreasonable individual to do such a thing.

Better subscribe to the KISS theory for you in future eh?

Good on ya Carb - you are the mouthpiece of the plebs.

I'm sorry, Let me bow to the master. I'm sorry I'm not on you league as far as intellegence goes. Bad luck your the only player in your league. I don't know why I don't listen to you, maybe its because of your everything from SA is shit attitude.

ptw got it right when he said you are confusing this issue by thinking greatest club means greatest team. Onfield success is just one part of the club. Port has done so much for Australian football even though they have been in the AFL only 4 years their history goes back 130 years.

So stop trying to be a know all, by using different teams in different sports as an example because it has no relevance to Australian Rules Football and its history.

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

1. You dismissed the argument that if a country team had a better record than Port Adelaide had, then it would be irrelevant.
This is where I beg to differ.

2. I admire and respect Port Adelaide as an institution in Australian football, as a football club undoubtedly the proudest in SOuth Australia.

3. As for everything from SA is shit argument, that is a load of shit - refer to my comments regarding the Crows and the fact they achieved a flag in such a short time.

The point is it seems to be dismissed that any other club with a similar record in any other league could be considered the greatest club in the business.

I am not necessarily saying, although I may have stated it, that Port isn't a great club.

But it has not been tested against the best, so it cannot claim to be the best.

Otherwise, Kolora, or Vermont, or whoever, that may have more premierships than Port Adelaide, and I am not suggesting they have, could lay claim to that title.

So what is it we are arguing about - I am a little confused.

The point I made was that if a country side cannot be considered as successful if it has won as many premiership as Port, then why should we consider Port so successful if Port Adelaide itself was not in the best competition in the business.

Do either of you have a valuid argument for any of these points??????????????

 

[ptw]

kymthug....

I have answered on the country bit already and may differ from my Port bretheren....

you cannot have your cake and eat it too....

are Port not the greatest because they played in a second rate competition and therefore cannot be compared with Carlton...

or are they not the greatest because Vermont may be better ???

which one ???...I am confused as I see the two as mutually exclusive.

who do you actually think is the most successful club if it is not Port ?

why don't you actually state a position ????

ptw

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

And carb, do you understand the difference between your and you're????????

And as for my own league, I do have my own opinions, not those that may necessarily be held by all others.

It seems you are the one that finds this difficult to understand, hence resorting to personal insults in your first post to me.

Well I am one to fight fire with fire, so expect it back with interest should you wish to get nasty.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Im with you on this one Kymhod.........., Carb happened to trip over a thread you started on the PA site about the arrogance of Adelaide supporters, well declaring your own club as the best ever sort of smacks of a bit of arrogance in itself, although i dont particularly like them Carlton have never won a wooden spoon in the toughest Aussie Rules competition in the world, a bucketful of premierships, huge supporter base, money coming out of John Elliot arse, always a contendor etc etc, would have to be the equal of if not superior club to PA.

 

[ptw]

can't agree with that Bubba....

your saying the definition of a successful club is not losing.....

nah...winning mate that is what it is all about....they have won less premierhsips than Essendon...so I would have to pick them over Carlton....still Port in my book though.

ptw

 

[kymhodgemansmo]

ptw,

Fair shout, and I swallow a little humble pie.

My opinion is that I do not have one, except to say that I believe the club that has made the most of its resources and achieved an unparallelled level of success is the one that I would rate the highest.

As for naming a club I cannot, but I believe when we are talking about the word great, we have too many variables.

And I guess I take offence to a club declaring ITSELF the greatest club ever.

Does great mean contributed the most to football - and how is that measured, by onfield performance, by its take no prisnoers approach or by its ability to hold together competitions and people.

To gauge the greatest football club in the world, I believe but without enormous conviction it needs to be the one that is synonymous with the code throughtout the codes area eg worldwide with soccer, Australia with Aussie Rules.

I guess it would have to be Carlton or Collingwood for mine, despite the premierships that Essendon have won, because Collingwood in particular is synonymous with football everywhere.

But is is a ridiculous question because of the word great - what does that mean - how long is a piece of string.

You have undoubtedly been the greatest club in South Australian football - but nationally, and forever - I cant come at that.