Premiership Coach

[Grenville]

Thanks for responses. Removing the real time matchday and rebalancing the sim are highest on my list. As some here know I've wanted to change up the player model for a long time - its great for players who are "born" in the game, but rating existing players to bring them into it is tough. I'm working through that now.
I have a good sim redesign that i've been working on for a little while now also & confident we can improve this a long way.

 

[Grenville]

Team finances was one I considered mentioning. Doesn’t really add too much at the moment.

Would be really interested in improving this also if we can get some ideas together for changes.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

My biggest gripe with creation was the ridiculous number of "one tool" players. Virtually any AFL level player is going to be passable in most positions - most onballers can play forward or back, most marking players can play at either end, most rucks can do something forward, etc.

I think perhaps a by-product of the brute-force creation module was by filtering out players without the high-level skills, players with one dominant skill were available, whilst the all-rounder was discarded. A 61 rated small forward with 0 rating everywhere else is in, a 59 rated forward pocket, who is also 59 rated inside/outside midfielder and 59 back pocket missed out. (I know it was the individual skills that were grouped into the positional rating, but easier to describe that way).

Those who played the first version will remember the dominant Hawks - you can blame me for that - sorry (or maybe I was prophetic? Real life Hawks 2012-2016 went ok!) Despite not having high ratings, pretty much every player was well rounded which seemed to result in better performances in sim (and especially dominant in matchplay which used a different game model). This benefit has another factors - as salary is (in part) based upon max skill, the well-rounded player is (often far) cheaper to contract allowing a far deeper squad (allowing harder training and more $$$ to develop, etc).

I did lots of testing with well-rounded players - KPD started to get possessions, HBF dominated and it started to feel more "modern" (other than FF's kicking all the goals).

If the simulation is being re-tooled, I'd look to introducing a "primacy" factor - how often team-mates look for a player, how often that player will take the shot instead of passing, etc. Dangerfield/Ablett/Franklin = 100, even if not the best option overall.

 

[Grenville]

Simon, I remember we talked back in the day about having stats drive player ratings. It wasnt possible, and made it clear that the player model needed to be redesigned. Its a pretty big job - and breaks everything that's layered on top of it - but i agree is a necessity. The scope of that is largely why i havent found time to work on the game again until now. Taking out the real-time sim, and just focusing on the core sim will be a massive win here.

The sim is essentially a collection of contests that are won/lost primarily based on player skills (weighted by a number of factors: eg home ground advantage, fatigue etc)

The player ratings are necessary, high-level metrics for AI making decisions {list management, selection etc} but were never tightly-enough correlated to the skills that are determining who wins contests, or the frequency that the contests occur. That's the disconnect, and why your well-rounded players performed so well.

By simplifying the player model, and making it more skill-centric i'm expecting to improve both the sim and the ratings.

 

[SJL93]

Realise I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to contribute.
1) Personally I use the match day. So much more tactics & thinking required other than just players in the correct position to perform well. Also adds length to the game itself, gives you more of a coach vibe, rather than football manger. If you do get rid of it, I'm not fussed.
2) Not much use, makes the home screen look good. Happy either way.
3 & 4) Not my area.
5) On top of the rule updates, trading updates & previous views. I would love something like a Form bar on lists & regional lists. Next to the numbers you put something like a Fire symbol for someone 'untouchable' & a red arrow or the player is covered in red when in bad form. Espically for regional players to help mature age players drafted. Free Agency a bit like the old father/son system. E.g Your geelong & Mitch Duncan wants to leave so when a round of bidding is done you get the option of matching the highest bidder or he goes to them sort of thing.
6) If your including the match day system balance between all players of disposals & a better AI system where they use the bench more often & better balance of the whole system. A form feature & a team suspension like feature. If someone keeps not training up to standard you can suspend them. A Coaching rating & peak system. Mids win the brownlow, less dominace from tall forwards. A few match day options on players & more control over tactics on how you play. If you're curios as to how I Pm you.

 

[Fizzler]

What do you guys think of the UI I designed?

What looks good and what needs improvement?

 

[SJL93]

What do you guys think of the UI I designed?

What looks good and what needs improvement?

I like the picture of the Port cheer squad behind. Could you make it so you get the same idea for each club?
Black & white contrast looks really nice & really easy to read.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Alright, separate from uncustom's work on getting things playable in the short term, I'm starting to mess around with ideas for a new major version (freeware, non-commercial).

A couple questions:
1) How important to the game is the real time matchday? Curious how many of you were using it, and whether it could be held back from a new version, then reintroduced some time later.
2) How important to you is the newspaper/story driven content? Same deal - considering taking it out for now.
3) With the Newspaper gone, I'd like to redesign the home screen/main dashboard. Some combination of Email, Calendar, Ladder - anyone want to have a crack at redesigning the layout there?
4) Similar for new features that need to be introduced (i.e Free Agency), if someone wants to get discussion going on how those should look & behave?
5) Any other features from PC2011 that you feel can go to scale back and simplify? (team chemistry is one)
6) List of Critical features for a new version?

1. I use it regularly, as i like making the match day coaching decisions etc. but if you can figure out a way to rebalance the statistics on simmed matched, then I will be more likely to sim
2. I read it a bit and it seems like its an easy way to get information e.g rising star/brownlow etc without going into the tabs. If there was something else that we thought would be better to replace it with, then go for it.
3. Hopeless at all that stuff, plus dont have the relevant programs on my laptop to do it
4. Free Agency for one. Removing the sub. Maybe doing a fantasy points system (i already have one that i use which is pretty good)
5. Nil
6. none that i can think of

 

[Fizzler]

I like the picture of the Port cheer squad behind. Could you make it so you get the same idea for each club?
Black & white contrast looks really nice & really easy to read.

I've been doing different backgrounds for each team. The plan is for each team you manage to have their fans in the background.

 

[Grenville]

I like the picture of the Port cheer squad behind. Could you make it so you get the same idea for each club?
Black & white contrast looks really nice & really easy to read.

Agreed, love the club-themed backgrounds. Let's go with those for sure

 

[Schods]

Alright, separate from uncustom's work on getting things playable in the short term, I'm starting to mess around with ideas for a new major version (freeware, non-commercial).

A couple questions:
1) How important to the game is the real time matchday? Curious how many of you were using it, and whether it could be held back from a new version, then reintroduced some time later.
2) How important to you is the newspaper/story driven content? Same deal - considering taking it out for now.
3) With the Newspaper gone, I'd like to redesign the home screen/main dashboard. Some combination of Email, Calendar, Ladder - anyone want to have a crack at redesigning the layout there?
4) Similar for new features that need to be introduced (i.e Free Agency), if someone wants to get discussion going on how those should look & behave?
5) Any other features from PC2011 that you feel can go to scale back and simplify? (team chemistry is one)
6) List of Critical features for a new version?

1. I enjoy the match day feature but don't mind if it is scraped.
2. Don't mind the newspaper disappearing as long as something is on the front page (as you suggested)
3 & 4. Can't help there sorry.
5. A different team selection when on auto. Maybe a section in tactics where the coach can set a template for a team for teams like Richmond who don't have a 2nd ruckman every week.
6. I have plenty but I'll say the typical ones. Free agency, future trade picks, bidding on draft night (Academy and F/S), new rookie rules (CAT A&B), Sub taken out and Four Emergencies (instead of 3). Something else is the amount of goals for the Coleman to be more realistic as well as the Brownlow being more weighted for midfielders. Maybe a column for something like fantasy points instead of a rating column. MRO/Tribunal hard to change but a possibility. Possibility of a feature where injured players/rookies randomly retire mid season. Also one last one is the substitution cap of 90 involved.

 

[Grenville]

5. A different team selection when on auto. Maybe a section in tactics where the coach can set a template for a team for teams like Richmond who don't have a 2nd ruckman every week.

Thanks - this one in particular is high on my list. The old sim was driven by contests primarily between a player and their direct opponent which made it hard to work around different forward/ruck setups. I have a new sim & player model designed that'll cover this nicely and working on balancing it currently.

 

[Grenville]

I've been actively working on Premiership Coach again for the last month or so and made great progress. I'm confident that we'll see a 2019 version, although uncertain of release date (still a lot of ground to cover).
Not looking at this as a commercial project & will be distributed freely to bigfooty community. Once its built and stable I am considering trying to distribute via steam to build a community. You cant beat their distribution network + forums etc. It'd be at some really low price to cover costs & invest back into it (pay designers/artists? build online multiplayer?? ), but either way will continue to be freely available here.

Changed thread title and removed the old code repository online.

All that aside, I'm really excited about the new player model and simulation that's running and pretty balanced as of last night. Night and day improvement over what was in PC2011.

 

[uncustom]

Given that Grenville does plan to release a new version of Premiership Coach, I will no longer be working on what I was trying to do with the open source.

It has been awhile since I have worked on it as Grenville did let me know of his intentions to work on the game again.

 

[Grenville]

Given that Grenville does plan to release a new version of Premiership Coach, I will no longer be working on what I was trying to do with the open source.

It has been awhile since I have worked on it as Grenville did let me know of his intentions to work on the game again.

Thanks again for your efforts mate and if you ever have interest in working all the new version just let me know.

 

[saposcat]

Thanks again for your efforts mate and if you ever have interest in working all the new version just let me know.

This is massive. Really looking forward to a new version and highly appreciative Grenville.
Personally, I'd be ecstatic just to play a version of the current game with 2018 lists, GWS added and no subs. Anything else would be bonus.

 

[Grenville]

Figured I'll post a bit here and there as things progress through the offseason.

Player model changes are done & new sim is working and mostly balanced. Waiting on the season to end, then I'll be able to pull in current player stats and get work on player ratings underway (hoping for help from community here on that). Then I'll start work on free agency etc.

Anything you see here is mock data/mostly random. Heres a look at the new player model & a PC2011 pet peeve fixed.

 

[Munga]

I just had a game where McCartin kick 7 goals 3 behinds... but only had 6 kicks! I wouldn't expect anything less from a number one pick

 

[Grenville]

I just had a game where McCartin kick 7 goals 3 behinds... but only had 6 kicks! I wouldn't expect anything less from a number one pick

As you might guess from my username, I'm guilty of some fond nostalgia when it comes to the big forwards of the 80s. PC2011 sim suffered from that, but things have been re-balanced and much more accurate now for PC2019. I promise

 

[saposcat]

Are there going to be any adjustments to how the draft works Grenville ?

I feel it's such a key component of the game's longevity. In the past, I've just gone in to notepad prior to the draft and deleted/edited players to produce a more balanced draft. I have very limited skills so its really just changing names, ages, upgrading players and deleting a few mature aged players that keep getting recycled. It works and keeps things interesting. I'm sure someone's mentioned it before, but would love to see more in depth VFL/SANFL/WAFL etc. stats, and bigger emphasis on U18s championship games leading up to the draft.

Super pumped about PC2019. Checking this thread almost daily for updates!

 

[Grenville]

Are there going to be any adjustments to how the draft works Grenville ?

I feel it's such a key component of the game's longevity. In the past, I've just gone in to notepad prior to the draft and deleted/edited players to produce a more balanced draft. I have very limited skills so its really just changing names, ages, upgrading players and deleting a few mature aged players that keep getting recycled. It works and keeps things interesting. I'm sure someone's mentioned it before, but would love to see more in depth VFL/SANFL/WAFL etc. stats, and bigger emphasis on U18s championship games leading up to the draft.

Super pumped about PC2019. Checking this thread almost daily for updates!

Really interested to see comments like this and hoping that the process of building PC2019 can be pretty collaborative - help me build the game you want. I'll happily acknowledge that there were limitations in previous versions & keen to work through those with feedback here. Plus I love talking about this shit - keeps me motivated. Although with my son being 6 now and loving the footy (even though we're in the US), time and motivation are increasing all the time. Anyway..

I can say with certainty that regional club depth will be added for PC2019. I probably mentioned on one of these threads over the years that PC2012 was part way done before the project got shelved. Expanding the regional leagues is something that had progressed reasonably far - along with scouting in those leagues.

I havent touched that area since i started working on things again yet, so this is very much all a work in progress (mock data is why half essendon side is in the screenshot, and the northern leagues have merged), but I'll drop a couple of screenshots. One thing i wanted to call out on the 2nd screenshot is the tooltip that you get now when hovering over a player pretty much anywhere in the gameso you can see and compare ratings quick and easy.
In the past regional players were modeled differently, the game sim was simplified/scaled back. Now players and clubs are all the same model across all leagues. Club finances and Staff are the main differences i can think of off hand (regional clubs have neither yet). At some point (likely not 2019) we'll be able to make these clubs playable.

I'm really interested to hear more about the changes that you were making to the regional players in notepad. Was it the spread of positions that you didnt like? Or ratings of the kids (too hiogh/low relative to AFL players)?

 

[Kciza]

Thanks for starting work on this again. Always enjoyed these games, and was a purchaser of both 2010 and 2011 back in the day. I never used matchday and am glad you've decided to refine the sim. My three biggest wants are the ability to properly develop players, a deeper and more complex drafting system, and the obvious trade period/free agency updates.

My idea around player development also introduces the idea of player archetypes/roles. So for example for General Defenders there would be three main types Lockdown, Intercepting and Rebounding. Each player would have a rating in these three categories based on what their attributes are. Then in your tactics screen you would assign one of these roles to your player and that would effect their performance. So Nev Jetta would have a high Lockdown rating and when assigned this role his opponent would have lower stats than normal, but his stats would also suffer. However if you assigned him a rebounding role his performance wouldn't be good as he has a lower rating in this, whereas a say Sam Docherty who has a high rebounding rating would perform well and have a higher number of possessions and rebounds. I think it would give every player a more individual feel as it's hard to give a Nev Jetta or Nick Smith a high rating as they don't accumulate a lot of possessions.

This would also lead me into player development where you're able to see that the pacy midfielder you drafted has some attributes that suit playing as a rebounding half back and you're able to develop him into one. Whether this is done through a 2010 style training system or being able to assign him this role to develop in the VFL/WAFL/SANFL/NEAFL, I don't know but it would add a layer of realism to the game. A lot of kids drafted don't end up playing in the position they played as a kid.

This also relies on the ability to set tactics in a simulated game and adds another layer of depth into who you pick up in the draft or trade period. In 2011 I'd usually just play midfielders in the small forward spots because the small forwards you could draft were one dimensional and rubbish. Now I can't do that because none of those midfielders have a good General Forward Crumber role rating, and my forwardline is going to be unbalanced.

Anyway I don't know if any of my rambling makes sense or whether it's possible to actually incorporate into the game hahaha I'm just really excited you're working on this again.

 

[Collingwood pro]

Hey Grenville was just wondering how the rating system worked in pc2011 it always confused me.

 

[saposcat]

Really interested to see comments like this and hoping that the process of building PC2019 can be pretty collaborative - help me build the game you want. I'll happily acknowledge that there were limitations in previous versions & keen to work through those with feedback here. Plus I love talking about this shit - keeps me motivated. Although with my son being 6 now and loving the footy (even though we're in the US), time and motivation are increasing all the time. Anyway..

I can say with certainty that regional club depth will be added for PC2019. I probably mentioned on one of these threads over the years that PC2012 was part way done before the project got shelved. Expanding the regional leagues is something that had progressed reasonably far - along with scouting in those leagues.

I havent touched that area since i started working on things again yet, so this is very much all a work in progress (mock data is why half essendon side is in the screenshot, and the northern leagues have merged), but I'll drop a couple of screenshots. One thing i wanted to call out on the 2nd screenshot is the tooltip that you get now when hovering over a player pretty much anywhere in the gameso you can see and compare ratings quick and easy.
In the past regional players were modeled differently, the game sim was simplified/scaled back. Now players and clubs are all the same model across all leagues. Club finances and Staff are the main differences i can think of off hand (regional clubs have neither yet). At some point (likely not 2019) we'll be able to make these clubs playable.

I'm really interested to hear more about the changes that you were making to the regional players in notepad. Was it the spread of positions that you didnt like? Or ratings of the kids (too hiogh/low relative to AFL players)?

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Screenshots look great. The club logos are a great touch!
Having in depth regional comps stats would be a brilliant edition, particularly if it has an impact on the draft, but even if it informs some of the matchday selections I'm making week-to-week based on say VFL form, its a win

In answer to your question re. the changes I was making in notepad, it was mainly because I was trying to replicate the realism of an actual AFL draft, where 18-19 year olds formed the bulk of the players selected (with various outliers). So I'd go in and change a few unrealistic names, and maybe some of their base stats. I found that the draft really petered out in terms of quality players after the first 40-50 picks, so I'd upgrade a few players in particular positions that were short on numbers in that specific draft, in order to add depth. The other change was to delete players who had been recycled 1-2 times, and sometimes more. They would get delisted from their club the first or second time, and since they had developed in the years they were in the system, their rating was quite high, meaning they would enter the draft again and get drafted with a relatively high pick. If I didn't delete them, I would at least change their name and age, as if the club was drafting a mature aged player.

It can sometimes be a painstaking process, particularly when I've accidentally deleted a "/" or ">", and I'm scraping through the entire file for the particular player trying to find what I've deleted! I've reached 2040s in one saved file, and 2030s in another, and I've more or less done this at the end of each season prior to the draft. Certainly keeps things interesting.

Eagerly anticipating future PC2019 updates Grenville! Still can't believe its happening

 

[Grenville]

Screenshots look great. The club logos are a great touch!
Having in depth regional comps stats would be a brilliant edition, particularly if it has an impact on the draft, but even if it informs some of the matchday selections I'm making week-to-week based on say VFL form, its a win

In answer to your question re. the changes I was making in notepad, it was mainly because I was trying to replicate the realism of an actual AFL draft, where 18-19 year olds formed the bulk of the players selected (with various outliers). So I'd go in and change a few unrealistic names, and maybe some of their base stats. I found that the draft really petered out in terms of quality players after the first 40-50 picks, so I'd upgrade a few players in particular positions that were short on numbers in that specific draft, in order to add depth. The other change was to delete players who had been recycled 1-2 times, and sometimes more. They would get delisted from their club the first or second time, and since they had developed in the years they were in the system, their rating was quite high, meaning they would enter the draft again and get drafted with a relatively high pick. If I didn't delete them, I would at least change their name and age, as if the club was drafting a mature aged player.

It can sometimes be a painstaking process, particularly when I've accidentally deleted a "/" or ">", and I'm scraping through the entire file for the particular player trying to find what I've deleted! I've reached 2040s in one saved file, and 2030s in another, and I've more or less done this at the end of each season prior to the draft. Certainly keeps things interesting.

Eagerly anticipating future PC2019 updates Grenville! Still can't believe its happening

Thanks mate. On the names, there's a master list in here: ~<Install Dir>\Data\Base\Base2019\Misc
Draftees just pull a first and last name from the list at random - if you edit those you can remove any names you dont like and they wont reappear. Honestly dont remember where i got those.

Distribution and quality across the draft we can control pretty easily. Ideally I'd like to balance things so that they're realistic by default, then could add configuration for draftee crop quality. Will look at both draft crop depth and the recycling of players for sure.