Discussion Prison Bars debate

[jle101]

Australia's second biggest city has 9 teams and 1 semi regional team and no one gives a toss about it. Alrighty then.

TLL might have been referring to Brisbane by mistake there?

 

[jle101]

I could see casual (non-SA) fans taking a couple of years to figure out what is going on but that's about as far as the confusion would go.

A couple of years? Geez, they'd have to be the most casual of casuals if that was the case. I'm a casual EPL fan but have never mixed up Liverpool & Arsenal.

 

[magpienato]

We have held to that condition. We're looking at wearing this guernsey in a local derby only. That's what the proposal to the AFL is based on and the legal agreement they are using to do this means that there is no 'slippery slope' because it locks its use to a heritage themed game. Port are requesting that Showdown games be classed as a representation of SA Football heritage.

While there are a contingent of supporters who want the bars as our full time home guernsey, the club is committed to the BiB chevron guernsey design and kit. (ie black base for home, grey/silver base for away, and white base for clash)

This is fundamental to our club's brand strategy moving forward. The bars are an icon of our heritage and we want to celebrate it without having this rigmarole with Eddie every time we do.

And I've always been happy with Port wearing it for Showdown games because the Prison bars, while recognisable throughout the country, is locally iconic to the people of Adelaide, and South Australia more broadly. And if there are provisions to stop the 'slippery slope' in the legal agreement then that's great too.

 

[LeeARM]

A couple of years? Geez, they'd have to be the most casual of casuals if that was the case. I'm a casual EPL fan but have never mixed up Liverpool & Arsenal.

Yeah, but you clearly have a big interest in sports uniforms if you're posting on this board. In my experience, most people don't care that much about sports uniforms ().

 

[TheLoungeLizard]

Australia's second biggest city has 9 teams and 1 semi regional team and no one gives a toss about it. Alrighty then.

My mistake, I was meaning Sydney and got myself mixed up (it was 1:30 am at the time haha)

But having read someone else saying you only want it for Showdown's - I thought this was a full time push, if it's only Showdown's I can't see why Collingwood and and Collingwood people can't let that happen

 

[Fizzler]

Wrote an article about the Prison Bars, would be great if you guys could give it a look. Warning, it’s a bit wordy but I’m pretty happy with it.

#BringBackTheBars – Port fans push for the return of the Prison Bars

Port Adelaide is a proud football club with a history that is unmatched in Australia. With 36 SANFL premierships and 1 AFL premiership over the span of 150 years, A club that has a history of succe…

sportthreads.wordpress.com

 

[jle101]

That trial match from '93 always interested me. Whilst the predominately black PA home jumper was enough of a contrast against the (then) mostly white away C'wood strip, it would be hard to see it still working the other way around (ie. C'wood home, Port away).

I might be wrong about this, but I believe when Collingwood changed its backdrop colour from white to black, it was somewhat of a sneaky move to keep the PBs away from the AFL.

 

[Heardy_101]

My mistake, I was meaning Sydney and got myself mixed up (it was 1:30 am at the time haha)

But having read someone else saying you only want it for Showdown's - I thought this was a full time push, if it's only Showdown's I can't see why Collingwood and and Collingwood people can't let that happen

All good - we all do crazy things when it's late and we can't sleep.

It's literally all we're pushing for at the moment (Prison Bars in Showdowns). And the occasional heritage match when it pops up

 

[bomberclifford]

I might be wrong about this, but I believe when Collingwood changed its backdrop colour from white to black, it was somewhat of a sneaky move to keep the PBs away from the AFL.

It absolutely was, as was the AFLW guernsey design they used in the first two seasons.

 

[TheLoungeLizard]

All good - we all do crazy things when it's late and we can't sleep.

It's literally all we're pushing for at the moment (Prison Bars in Showdowns). And the occasional heritage match when it pops up

For some reason I thought there was a push for full time use.
That was my argument about band dilution.

If it's one game a year, maybe 2 I don't think it should be a problem, I can still see Collingwood's argument but it's not nearly as strong and a bit of goodwill could be applied.

That said, the 2004 Premiership jumper I thought was brilliant, it had 'bars' in it and also had the teal as a prominent feature - it is a shame that has been let go.
A little bit of both worlds I always thought.

 

[Fizzler]

That trial match from '93 always interested me. Whilst the predominately black PA home jumper was enough of a contrast against the (then) mostly white away C'wood strip, it would be hard to see it still working the other way around (ie. C'wood home, Port away).

I might be wrong about this, but I believe when Collingwood changed its backdrop colour from white to black, it was somewhat of a sneaky move to keep the PBs away from the AFL.

Agreed, but I mean there's currently a little bit of a push for Collingwood to go back to the white jumper so anything's possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case in all honesty, but the logo change was a big one. Collingwood changed to a round logo in 1995, the year after Port won the AFL license. The Port logo is on the right. A tad fishy I think.

Had the jumper change not occurred in a similar time period to the logo change I'd be willing to give Collingwood the benefit of the doubt, but now I don't know.

 

[Fizzler]

For some reason I thought there was a push for full time use.
That was my argument about band dilution.

If it's one game a year, maybe 2 I don't think it should be a problem, I can still see Collingwood's argument but it's not nearly as strong and a bit of goodwill could be applied.

That said, the 2004 Premiership jumper I thought was brilliant, it had 'bars' in it and also had the teal as a prominent feature - it is a shame that has been let go.
A little bit of both worlds I always thought.

Some people (like me) want it as the full time home jumper, others want it just for showdowns. The common goal however is for the club to be allowed to wheel it out whenever they see fit. Whether that's showdowns, ANZAC round, finals, a permanent home jumper, it should be up to Port.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'm personally pushing for full time use. It's our guernsey. The sky hasn't fallen in at any of the other times we've worn it and it wouldn't fall in if we wore it as a home guernsey.

The club is pushing for Showdowns and I think the #bringbackthebars campaign is pushing for us to have full control over when we use the bars.

 

[jle101]

Collingwood changed to a round logo in 1995, the year after Port won the AFL license. The Port logo is on the right. A tad fishy I think.

Yeah, the timing of that logo change suggests nothing but some subtle sabotage on Collingwood's behalf. Apparently their current logo with the wreath was only supposed to be used as a commemorative logo for the short-term, then it kind of just stuck around. Not trying to take heaps of shots here at Collingwood, but it does really seem like they deliberately encroached on Port's iconography over the years.

 

[Syxx]

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case in all honesty, but the logo change was a big one. Collingwood changed to a round logo in 1995, the year after Port won the AFL license. The Port logo is on the right. A tad fishy I think.
View attachment 983408View attachment 983409

No we didn't. That's not true at all about our logo. This was our logo from 1992.



Full history here: https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/the-collingwood-logo/

There's a great thread on the change of our jumpers back in 2001 here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nd-collingwoods-2001-guernsey-change.1117194/

Also coincided with a re-birth or sorts as we headed into a new generation under the Ed/Mick regime.

As a Pies fan I couldn't care less if Port wore the PB's vs Adelaide. In fact it would probably add some spice to it. This thread will just go round and round in circles because both sides see things totally differently.

Collingwood fans: We are the black and white team in the AFL, we are the Magpies in the AFL, Port Adelaide did not join the AFL as the Magpies. They joined as the Port Adelaide Power so why would they wear the jumper of a SANFL team.

Port fans: We are Port Adelaide, the Magpies and the Power are the same thing. We are all 1 football club and we prefer to wear our traditional jumper.

Rinse and repeat.

Maybe over simplified but that's the way I see it anyway.

 

[bomberclifford]

No we didn't. That's not true at all about our logo. This was our logo from 1992.

View attachment 983572

Full history here: https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/the-collingwood-logo/

There's a great thread on the change of our jumpers back in 2001 here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nd-collingwoods-2001-guernsey-change.1117194/

Also coincided with a re-birth or sorts as we headed into a new generation under the Ed/Mick regime.

As a Pies fan I couldn't care less if Port wore the PB's vs Adelaide. In fact it would probably add some spice to it. This thread will just go round and round in circles because both sides see things totally differently.

Collingwood fans: We are the black and white team in the AFL, we are the Magpies in the AFL, Port Adelaide did not join the AFL as the Magpies. They joined as the Port Adelaide Power so why would they wear the jumper of a SANFL team.

Port fans: We are Port Adelaide, the Magpies and the Power are the same thing. We are all 1 football club and we prefer to wear our traditional jumper.

Rinse and repeat.

Maybe over simplified but that's the way I see it anyway.

Great resources, thanks for sharing.

BTW your simplified version is pretty much the crux of it.

 

[TheLoungeLizard]

Trying to argue Port Adelaide Power and Port Adelaide Magpies aren't the same club with two different trading names is either thick or trolling

It's been well documented now to not know the story (on this forum at least)

 

[Gibbsy]

It absolutely was, as was the AFLW guernsey design they used in the first two seasons.

Can I preface this by saying despite the fact I am a Collingwood supporter I have no aversion to Port wearing the bars full-time – including in games against Collingwood – in fact, it's what I want to happen. It is their uniform and their right.

But I think without proof, it's disingenuous to suggest that either of these designs were brought in particularly to ape the prison bars. I wrote a mini-essay on the 2001 AFL guernsey change, a thread which you can read here, so I won't repeat any of that.

As for the AFLW guernseys, there was definitely a push by Cotton On – the league-wide manufacturer – to deliberately design guernseys that were reminiscent of the men's designs, but different in their own way. All these guernseys would absolutely have been designed by Cotton On and presented to the clubs for comment, and not the other way around. Look at Carlton's: the subtle adding of sky blue accents. Brisbane's: turning a flat yoke into a vee yoke. Melbourne's: an all-red back. And so on and so forth. Some clubs, like GWS, could afford to be more radical. Collingwood? There isn't too much you can do with black, white and stripes if you want it to remain a similar look. So they lopped the top off the stripes to create a black yoke. And to be quite frank, there is a high possibility that the designers working at Cotton On – who let's remember are fashion designers, not sports designers – would not have a clue what the prison bars are or were, nor could they possibly even name every team in the men's league.

It seems to me to be a cynical, easy cop-out to suggest that Collingwood was trying to undermine any return of the bars, firstly A: in 2001 when bringing back the bars wasn't even a consideration and Eddie had nowhere near the amount of sway he has today, and B: in 2017 via a nascent women's league where the designers that created the design concepts wouldn't have known Port Adelaide from Port Melbourne.

 

[Heardy_101]

So Eddie as announced next season will be his last as Collingwood President.

Personally I won't knock the bloke for what he's done over there, or his passion for his team.

But from 2022 onwards it has made Ports case for the Bars a little easier....

 

[bomberclifford]

That all depends on what Eddie does next.

 

[barrackers]

I hope McGuire's departure brings about change on this topic...








...a harder line and no more "one-off" use of our colours by an opposition club within the AFL.

 

[barrackers]

Agreed, but I mean there's currently a little bit of a push for Collingwood to go back to the white jumper so anything's possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case in all honesty, but the logo change was a big one. Collingwood changed to a round logo in 1995, the year after Port won the AFL license. The Port logo is on the right. A tad fishy I think.
View attachment 983408View attachment 983409
Had the jumper change not occurred in a similar time period to the logo change I'd be willing to give Collingwood the benefit of the doubt, but now I don't know.

I've always been curious about this round magpie logo/badge from the '30s that features on McHale's hat. I'm yet to find a clearer photo online though.

 

[Fizzler]

I've always been curious about this round magpie logo/badge from the '30s that features on McHale's hat. I'm yet to find a clearer photo online though.

I feel like most clubs have used a roundel at some point in their history so I’m not surprised that there is some historical context to Collingwood using one, it just seems somewhat fishy that long into the era of club logos becoming official that Collingwood reintroduced one very similar to the then current and long used logo of Port Adelaide who were well into the AFL bid. It’s entirely likely that this is the case but it just seems to coincidental to me.

 

[Gibbsy]

I've always been curious about this round magpie logo/badge from the '30s that features on McHale's hat. I'm yet to find a clearer photo online though.

I feel like most clubs have used a roundel at some point in their history so I’m not surprised that there is some historical context to Collingwood using one, it just seems somewhat fishy that long into the era of club logos becoming official that Collingwood reintroduced one very similar to the then current and long used logo of Port Adelaide who were well into the AFL bid. It’s entirely likely that this is the case but it just seems to coincidental to me.

There is no conspiracy, just a coincidence. Collingwood has been using roundels on and off since the 1930s.

This Collingwood Forever page gives a good rundown of all the different variants and when they were used.

 

[Pappagallo]

But I think without proof, it's disingenuous to suggest that either of these designs were brought in particularly to ape the prison bars.

Forget about the AFLW guernsey, this is the King Kong of Prison Bar apes.